Positive Christianity - Biblical or Not

[Enxu]

Brothers and sisters, I would like to talk about a brand of Christianity in China that I have recently came across. I hope we can all examine in the light of the Gospel as to its veracity. Please pray for understanding from God before you reply.

My mother is part of such a Christian fellowship. But after three months or so, I am starting to have doubts about what is being taught/practised in there.

To give them some credit, I did talk to one of the older women and she agree that believers need to follow the teachings of Christ, and I do see them helping out the needy. So at some level they do imitate Christ. But still I am concerned that they have somehow deviated from the simple Gospel with some teachings/practices that I find completely unbiblical and borderline heretic.

One of the most evident practices I see is how they call on the name of the Lord multiple times during prayers and say Amen to almost every sentence when people share their thoughts. They very much encourage people to say out loud their prayers and I was told I need to vocalise my prayers for God to hear. Their common prayers, in written form, is something like this:

O Lord Jesus, I thank You today. Lord Jesus, I pray for so-and-so, Lord, that You deliver her from illness. O Lord Jesus, You know she loves You, O Lord Jesus, because she is Your daughter, Lord.

It was a form of prayer practise that was entirely foreign to me but I did not want to judge them for a simple practise so I never said anything about that to them. Still, it does bring to mind what Jesus said about praying like the Pharisees, with lengthy words and vain repetitions. The Pharisees prayed openly with much words and repetition to show their piety before men but the Lord called them hypocrites. I have even heard some of those in this fellowship uttering prayers saying nothing throughout but only the words “Lord Jesus”. They believe this is calling on the name of the Lord. But yet I don’t see any Scriptural backing to this.

I am also concerned about the fact that they are so inviting and receptive to whoever wants to join their fellowship that they may not exercise biblical discernment or test the spirits. They are certainly very enthusiastic about sharing the Gospel and their faith, but they don’t seem to be cautious enough as to who they fellowship with. My mom was asked to be baptised the first time she went. Did she even understand the Gospel? Did she get convicted of sin by the Spirit of God and want to repent? These were some of the questions that came to mind because the baptism seemed too hasty. I thought my mom should at least have a good understanding as to what is going on before being baptised.

I also don’t see church discipline exercised, conviction and repentance of sin among believers, it was as though all is well. I have yet to hear the word “repent” being spoken to me by any of the members of that fellowship. There is just a lot of positivity and enthusiasm, but on what foundation I do not know. The New Testament, however, is filled with warnings about false Teachers and antichrist spirits, exhortations to live in obedience to the Gospel, church discipline teachings, and the need to be on alert to the devil. I raised the difficult issue of child abuse, and it was brushed off as being too negative and something we should not dwell on as believers. But I am a survivor of child abuse myself and they want to have no discussion on this topic because they want to be positive. I just feel on a gut level that their positivity does not have a Scriptural backing and is much like the false positive thinking and mindset taught by secular wisdom.

My most recent conversation with the older woman mentioned earlier concerned me further. I was coerced by her to come out and fellowship with them in order to know Jesus. I don’t have anything against fellowship per se, but I cannot agree that we need other believers to know Jesus. This is exactly like what is written about false teachers “drawing disciples after themselves”. (Acts 20:30) True teachers point to Jesus and Jesus alone, not to themselves or their fellowship to know Jesus. This is the mark of heresy. I pointed that out immediately to her and she seemed to agree. Yet I am surprised she is persuading me to fellowship with them for the purpose of knowing Christ. Hmm.

What are your convictions about this?

 

[Hekuran]

Here's my take on each of the issues you raise.

1. You might find the style of prayer offputting, but that is not as important as the content. Do these prayers fit within the concerns Jesus directed us to? His will be done, daily bread, forgive us our sins? If so, no problem.

I'd not be overly worried about a welcoming culture, as long as is grounded in a fellowship that is really secure in it's common life.

Brushing aside problems in the name of positivity would concern me. Jesus is lord, so we should be confident to face up to all the pain and trouble that there is in the world.

Fellowship is vital. There are no isolated Christians in the New Testament. All the images used to describe our presence on earth are corporate - stones in a building, family, flock, kingdom. It's the whole church that's the bride of christ, not us as individuals.

I've known quite a few churches in different places. From what you've written, my impression is that it's a healthy fellowship, but perhaps not very mature or stable. Congregations often go through a few cycles of painful failure and restoration before Jesus' teaching about discipline and repentance are really taken on board.

Hope that's helpful. That's my immediate reactions to what you've described, so I could well have misunderstood badly...

 

[Enxu]

Here's my take on each of the issues you raise.

1. You might find the style of prayer offputting, but that is not as important as the content. Do these prayers fit within the concerns Jesus directed us to? His will be done, daily bread, forgive us our sins? If so, no problem.

I'd not be overly worried about a welcoming culture, as long as is grounded in a fellowship that is really secure in it's common life.

Brushing aside problems in the name of positivity would concern me. Jesus is lord, so we should be confident to face up to all the pain and trouble that there is in the world.

Fellowship is vital. There are no isolated Christians in the New Testament. All the images used to describe our presence on earth are corporate - stones in a building, family, flock, kingdom. It's the whole church that's the bride of christ, not us as individuals.

I've known quite a few churches in different places. From what you've written, my impression is that it's a healthy fellowship, but perhaps not very mature or stable. Congregations often go through a few cycles of painful failure and restoration before Jesus' teaching about discipline and repentance are really taken on board.

Hope that's helpful. That's my immediate reactions to what you've described, so I could well have misunderstood badly...

Thanks for the reply.

1. You are right that the content matters more. I have never raised any objections to them personally over the style of prayer, just concerned whether it is biblical. I do not claim to know everything, but from what I do know, there is little mention of forgiveness of sin and His will be done in the content of prayer. It is more about thanking Jesus, and praying about specific real life concerns they have (could be about health, work, etc). The fact that their prayers are so focused on worldly concerns rather than God’s will be done and sins is a concern in itself.

Like I said, I am concerned about a welcoming culture because of the necessity of church discipline and protection against heresies and false gospels as exposited by the apostles in their teachings to the early church. The Lord Himself warned us about false christs and prophets. If there is no testing of spirits in a gathering any deceiver can come in and bring a heresy and they will welcome it in without discernment. If you study the New Testament there was not a welcoming culture anywhere in the early church. Practising sinners who claim to be Christians are excommunicated, false teachers are discerned and condemned, their heresies and false gospels, exposed and rejected.

Exactly why I am concerned about their positivity. This positivity, taken to the extreme, can blind them to the spiritual dangers so clearly mentioned in the Gospel and make them blissfully ignorant to what deceptions the devil may bring into their midst through false teachings. And it does seem that they have an extreme sense of positivity because they keep telling me not to worry or fret about life problems, and even say Satan is nothing and defeated and just “enjoy the Lord” while the apostle Peter writes “Be sober minded and alert for the devil is prowling around like a lion seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8) It is true we should not be entangled in worldly cares, but how can a Christian not exercise spiritual caution and just welcome everyone into their midst? And if they avoid difficult and realistic issues like child abuse now, wanting to be positive about life what happens then when persecution or times of difficulty comes upon them? Their faith will be destroyed because they never prepared themselves for it!

The fact that I have not heard a single sermon on the issue of sin, judgment and hell in their gatherings when such topics are so prevalent in the Gospel, mentioned frequently by Jesus and His apostles is already evidence just how one-sided they are in focusing only on the positive messages of the Gospel. I tried sharing a Christian prophecy that talked about the end of the world (with most of it actually fulfilled) for them to discern and they don’t even allow me to share with the entire gathering. I was told that the book of Revelation is enough. Yet aren’t we also taught not to despise prophecy? (1 Thessalonians 5:20) Again, I believe it is because the content of the prophecy is mostly negative which is why I wasn’t allowed to share it, even when it is mostly fulfilled!

I have never been against fellowship, I myself went to several Churches yet the common problem I find is the worldliness and lack of discernment/church discipline in them. Everything goes, we can agree to disagree as long as its politically correct, we are carefree, feel good about the sermons and be at peace with each other. There is no concern about sin, needing to keep the church gathering holy and free of heresies, barely if no sermon about repentance, judgement, doing the Word rather than only hearing it etc. Is such a fellowship pleasing to God? I don’t think so and can’t find a gathering that is like the first century church. What did the apostle write about our times:

The time is coming when people won't listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear. (2 Timothy 4:3)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears (2 Timothy 4:3)

 

[Enxu]

Another point about positivity is that while I agree we should not doubt God even when difficult times come, avoiding negative topics entirely is not the way to prevent doubt about God. If this was so, Jesus would never talk about anything negative in His Gospel yet He did about hell, judgment, false christs with warnings after warnings. Why? So that His disciples are prepared when danger comes. But here I am seeing in this gathering a complete avoidance of not only negative topics about life but even negative prophecies and Gospel content. Is this not straying away from the truth?

 

[Sue D.]

There Should be concern as to allowing anyone / everyone to join the church. Yes, a person wants a welcoming church congregation. But what does the church believe / their doctrinal statement/ what do the people believe who Do join the church. Everyone Should be welcome to come to the church services -- but joining the church is a different matter.

 

[Enxu]

There Should be concern as to allowing anyone / everyone to join the church. Yes, a person wants a welcoming church congregation. But what does the church believe / their doctrinal statement/ what do the people believe who Do join the church. Everyone Should be welcome to come to the church services -- but joining the church is a different matter.

Do you suggest I raise my concerns with them like I did here? I wanted to make sure I am not myself wrong which is why I posted here seeking more discernment.

 

[Sue D.]

In a private way -- yes. The leader of the group, yes. Do it in a polite way. Sit down over coffee or something. Start out with positive comments. and then move on. And watch the body language. That will tell you if you're being listened to.