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"It wasn't the physical death on the that paid the price for sin..anybody could do that"

Greetings Dave & Brother Paul

LOL now thats funny right there :smile:


I was contemplating my funny bone and then thankfully the Lord pulled me back to 'my senses' so to speak, to a more sobering thought, being from a Psalm many know....

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.
Psalm 23:4

Not only are there many cult like teachings in the world that can place the wrong fears into people but also, if and when we do let fling with grumpiness, as i do far too often, and we make more than ripples on the lake; more like tidal waves; and we see the mess that can be left behind in the wake, we can trust the Lord to pull us up about it [and thank Him, too] and to make good come put of it, or at lease help us to make good and make use of the opportunity to excercise the many virtues we so often expect others to go by. and seeking forgiveness and giving it, and doing what might be needed for peace if we have upset others by our grumps.
Might wonder how that all works or fits together.... if you find out, let me [all of us, in fact] know.


Bless you ....><>
 
Thank you brother

Adam's sin has corrupted the earth as we know, but all who come to Christ and truly repent there sins are wiped away, never to be remembered again by God. Those who are forgiven more love more, I say no more brother.

Now, item 2 is different, yes He does test us and tests us all differently, they can and do for many push our love and devotion to Him like nothing we have ever known.

I am not going into my past here, not in detail, I have shared bits elsewhere. Picking one issue, I was abused by a vicar in my teens, he was Mr Nice Guy, a new vicar in the village, and due to being brought up in a broken home the way I was, I was told to go to church to learn how to be good! How they needed to take the log out of their eyes first. The abuse was in three stages over two years, the first time I froze, after a period of time I broke away, questions were asked why I wasn't with the other lads, I made excuses and took up fishing in the local river. But, when I was with the rest of the lads, they had money, they had cakes and sweets. I went back thinking it wouldn't happen again, he talked me into going back at choir practice which was in the vicarage. He talked of love and I had seen none at home. But then it started again, again I froze, my insides locked up like steel. Everything went on 'inside', I broke away again, but after time the same happened again. I thought after breaking away twice it wouldn't happen again. He got us into Pontin's holiday place for free, this was good, lots of girls, slot machines, etc, but after choir practice and other times, cut my lawn I will give you this much etc, I went back. Again it happened, each time I froze, I was screwed up, I started to hate him and eventually stopped going, but the hate didn't leave me, I hated him, what he stood for, I hated the church, though I didn't know any more than the stone building we had to sing in. That hate inside, telling no one, was like a jagged knife in the stomach and gut pushed in and twisted, My hate got so much I set fire to his orchard probably as a means of retaliation.

Some people who are abused, according to statistics, they end up abusing others, for me it was the reverse, I became girl mad, sexually obsessed, any girl, even those not quite of age, though at the time I wasn't away there was a minimum age. After college I got a job, but at seventeen and a half I was crushed inside a concrete tunnel, incinerator. I almost died, it took five or six big guys to get the concrete off me and get me out. I was off 5 months, I was an apprentice on £11 a week, I got compensation yes, 5 months at £11 loss of wages nothing more.

Moving on quickly through first marriage, children, obsession for ladies, the marriage broke up, there is a lot more to this and the hell I went through, but jumping ahead to my early forties when I accepted Christ as my saviour and ALL my SINS were forgiven, slate wiped clean etc as we know. My past hate haunted me, my past experiences also, plus a business failure and moving 300 miles to a place we had never been before. It was here that my heart started searching, I have shared previously how things happened, my first Bible, and that one day I said to my wife, 'I am going to church on Sunday', she knew of my hate for anyone who would try tell me about, Jesus, God, the Church etc. but although we had twenty years together and she know of my previous marriage and shared in the hell we went threw she knew nothing of any other part of my past. It was deeply locked within me.

But also around this time I had a silly accident at work, so simple yet it happened, my coccyx hit the corner of a radiator! Ouch was not the word. Again a simple but extremely painful situation ended up a complex issue. The medical profession prescribed pain killers and anti inflammatory, they didn't take the pain away so they increased the dose. There was an allergic reaction, as they put it and tried to correct this with more prescribed drugs, 3 doctors prescribed 13 drugs before I was rushed into an isolation ward, they called me the yellow man, I almost died of liver failure due to the drugs.

All this happened around the time of coming to faith, and my wife put it down to illuminations, isn't that what the world does.

My faith increased, but then so did the issues at home, it got so hot I couldn't have my Bible where it could be seen in the home. I became more confused, my hate had gone, for the first time I knew there really was a God, not one ounce of doubt, but my wife was against me, she set the kids against me, I could not understand then why having come to Christ, believing in all my heart He could allow this to happen. I had to stop going to the place of worship, the church, and pray and just try love my family through this period. One day, in my job, I went to survey a property, I did my job and coming out stood on the doorstep talking to the man and woman. To my amazement the guy sad, 'you have problems don't you, would you like to come in we can pray for you' How did he know I thought but I went in. I found out soon after that he was a retired Pentecostal minister. The Lord provides.

I was taught how to pray for protection, taught about the devil's tricks, we prayed often, I was able to call in my lunch break and have fellowship without my wife knowing as it would have created more issues and my marriage would have probably split. I learned to stand in faith from early on, I learned to claim scripture early on, I was being Blessed although it didn't feel that way, I had a new fear within. Some remarkable things happened especially after three and a half years of prayer, I think I shared that, it was incredible how it happened, the timing etc. But meanwhile I ended up in depression, I prayed for help and felt I needed counselling, though I told no one. One day at my doctors he said have you considered counselling, I said I had but, I thought I should have a Christian counsellor. He said just wait here I need to go out of the room a minute, I sat there wondering, he returned with a lady, he said this is Margaret, she is a Christian, she is a counsellor will you see her. I did it was slow at first, then like being sucked into a tube I was sucked backwards and my past was opened up for the first time, back through all the years, issues back to the sexual abuse, issues back to three years old. This was when another set of issues arose, my wife could not understand why I had not told her these things, how could I tell another woman and not her! I was being set free, and my faith had been built on the Rock, Jesus Christ our Lord.

God tests His people to make them stronger, sometimes we cannot understand this, we cannot see it, but later He reveals it to us, often through others.

We may have to suffer, many do have to suffer, but He never lets us suffer more than we can endure (honest), We will never ever suffer as much as Christ suffered for us, when He was crucified for us and took upon Himself the sins of the whole world.

When pain strikes, do not let it drive us down, instead look up and rejoice, give thanks, we will only suffer for a period, providing we are truly saved and our name is in The Book of Life and The Lamb, life and pain is like the blink of an eye, this life is short, our future life is eternal, the old order will have gone, no pain, no suffering, no crying, no weeping, no curse, no sin, we will be with our Lord forever. Thank you Jesus, in your precious Name we pray and give thanks. Amen

Dear Brother Paul,
Thank-you again for sharing another bit of the testimony of your life. It brings tears to my ears, but not just of the pain, and suffering that has happened to you in this life, also of joy in how our Lord has seen you through it all. It's almost incomprehensible to imagine the Lord providing the strength to overcome the things that happen in our life and not just removing them. Which is only what the unbeliever sees. At times it may even take some retrospection for one to see with a clarity we did not then possess, on how good our God really is through the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus reflected in our own lives, but in part. These are the testimonies as your is, are the part of what can never be taken away from us, and speaks to the hearts of others who are drawn to us to hear.

I can't thank-you enough for sharing your life with us here my Brother and truly count it a blessing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><
 
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2
 
Hello @Brother Paul,

No, it was only The Lord Jesus Christ who could take our sins upon Himself and die in our place, for only He was, and is, sinless: otherwise He would have had to have died for His own sin. But, Praise God! being sinless, He could take the burden of our guilt upon Himself and die in our place, making it possible for us to have eternal life in Himself, by trusting in His all-sufficient sacrifice for sin.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Only the sinless Blood of the Greator God, Christ Jesus who called creation into form can DIE for any and all sin's by man. No one born individual can die for anyone's sin's however a person can give up his life to save another;s which Jesus himself mentions as salvation.
 
Dear Brother Paul,
Thank-you again for sharing another bit of the testimony of your life. It brings tears to my ears, but not just of the pain, and suffering that has happened to you in this life, also of joy in how our Lord has seen you through it all. It's almost incomprehensible to imagine the Lord providing the strength to overcome the things that happen in our life and not just removing them. Which is only what the unbeliever sees. At times it may even take some retrospection for one to see with a clarity we did not then possess, on how good our God really is through the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior Jesus reflected in our own lives, but in part. These are the testimonies as your is, are the part of what can never be taken away from us, and speaks to the hearts of others who are drawn to us to hear.

I can't thank-you enough for sharing your life with us here my Brother and truly count it a blessing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><

Dear Nick

It is just a portion, a slice, of my life brother nothing more, there is a lot more, good and bad, but I don't intend to include it here. Sometimes I feel I have gone to far, this is the issue with being rubbished and used as the devil's football in life, it takes time to trust people. Also, the fact I never opened up to anyone at all until my early 40's, when I came to Christ, although I talk easier now I am still cautions to open the valves.

In the heat of things during prayer I felt the Lord gave me a title for my life, 'it was 'Living on the Edge', if God is in it he will reveal it but if anything was written it would have to be a ghost writer. So far nothing, so I am not concerned in any way, I am looking ahead more now, to our Eternal home, but my past though released during the eight to nine months of counselling is very clear from start to finish, I have let go, I am free but scars remain brother.

In His Love \o/
 
Dear Paul,
Your words have touched deeply, and also brought to me this song.
Love you brother, and one day they'll all be wiped away.
Brotherly Hug Brother.


With the Love Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Dear Paul,
Your words have touched deeply, and also brought to me this song.
Love you brother, and one day they'll all be wiped away.
Brotherly Hug Brother.


With the Love Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Thanks Nick, I will watch/listen this tomorrow

Jesus loves you, I do too.

In His Love \o/
 
we are tested on this forums mostly when we disagree, not when we agree, let us use scripture to pass this test.
I am glad the mods here are more relaxed. Bendito's line was not really bad. On an atheist forum a Christian will get a paragraph of insults.
 
I am glad the mods here are more relaxed. Bendito's line was not really bad. On an atheist forum a Christian will get a paragraph of insults.

Hello Brother,
Agreed. However, I thought it best to let you know, that he and a few others have decided to no longer be part of Talk Jesus. We attempt to work with each person when possible behind the scenes. Sadly, the issues could not be resolved and they have decided to leave. (Heavy sigh) So, though I'm sure you're curious, please don't ask the "Why", for we won't say what has been communicated to us and to them in private. Only that they have decided to move on.

As far as the Moderators here. I would say, and I hope they don't mind me speaking for them, but we consider it a Labor of Love. Not only for the Lord, but for each of you as well. For are we not Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus and more than just Talk Jesus? We are the Body of Christ and loving Him, we love you too! No matter what disagreements may crop up in our desire to learn more of the Word and how it applies to our everyday life while walking with the Lord.
Brotherly Hug.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><
 
Hello Brother,
Agreed. However, I thought it best to let you know, that he and a few others have decided to no longer be part of Talk Jesus. We attempt to work with each person when possible behind the scenes. Sadly, the issues could not be resolved and they have decided to leave. (Heavy sigh) So, though I'm sure you're curious, please don't ask the "Why", for we won't say what has been communicated to us and to them in private. Only that they have decided to move on.

As far as the Moderators here. I would say, and I hope they don't mind me speaking for them, but we consider it a Labor of Love. Not only for the Lord, but for each of you as well. For are we not Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus and more than just Talk Jesus? We are the Body of Christ and loving Him, we love you too! No matter what disagreements may crop up in our desire to learn more of the Word and how it applies to our everyday life while walking with the Lord.
Brotherly Hug.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
<><
That's sad news. Praying they come back!
 
Dear Paul,
Your words have touched deeply, and also brought to me this song.
Love you brother, and one day they'll all be wiped away.
Brotherly Hug Brother.


With the Love Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

It is a beautiful song Nick, thanks you.

Scars show who we are and what we have come through, the scars of Jesus show us who he is and what he went through for us.

We are forever grateful

Bless you brother.
 
If Jesus only had to die on the cross for our salvation then to this day nobody is saved! The Apostle Paul tells us that if Christ has not been risen from the dead then we are all still dead in our sins, and our faith is in vain!

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Nobody could be saved right after Jesus had died on the cross until after his ascension from the dead!

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

It would be "through" death that Jesus would destroy the works of the Devil not by death. Jesus death on the cross was the penalty that would have come upon us if he did not take it upon himself. The power of death was still in the hands of the Devil when Jesus died on the cross. It would be "through" death that Jesus would take back the keys of hell and of death from the Devil which he did! If Jesus now has the keys of hell, and of death were did Jesus have to go to get them?


The scriptures reveal that if we confess that, "God raised up Jesus from the dead we shall be saved" not that he just died for us which was a part of his plan for our salvation!

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Jesus was "delivered" up because of our sins but he was raised up from the dead for our "justification".

Salvation is the results of Jesus death upon the cross, his destroying the works of the Devil through that death, and getting the keys of hell and death, then finally his ascension from the dead!

Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
 
@Curtis
Greetings,

thank you for sharing that with us all.

While that is true, thanks be to God, the title of the thread is, "It wasn't the physical death on the that paid the price for sin..anybody could do that" and in that respect,, with what you shared we can see clearly for justification God raised Him from death, praise the LORD, yet, the actual payment for sin, was it not by His body, His life being the exchange for the sins of the world? and no other could be that substitute?
it is a fine line perhaps but such lines are part of the wonderful picture and without them, we would see nothing but abstract.

Again, thank you for sharing as you have shown very important facts concerning our salvation,


Bless you ....><>
 
Not everyone will die a physical death of this flesh body as we know it. Those who are still living in flesh bodies at the return of Christ won’t go thru the physical death as we know it, there is just a body change from flesh to the spiritual body. In other words, flesh falls away and the finer body is taken on. Same type body the angels have.

I think a lot of you are missing a big point in Christ dying on the cross for our sins. Jesus made it clear that He was God in the flesh. John 14:9 The dying of Christ on the cross was a show of power and greatness. Just as God showed his power through Pharaoh. God was showing his greatness and power when He would tell Pharaoh, I will do this or that if you don’t let my people go. And whatever God said to Pharaoh it came to pass. Pharaoh and his people took note of what God said and what came about just afterwards, and they believed that Mosses’s God was for real. God gained fame in that land because what He stated, it came to pass rather quickly.

About the same thing is taking place in Christ’s crucifixion. Christ told the Christians that He would be crucified and three days He would rise again. And that’s what took place. So those seeing that, whether Christian or not, did believe in God/Christ. It wasn’t the actual blood that done it, it was the belief that if you followed the true Christ, you would live forever. God is the giver of all life, no one else.

Christ’s crucifixion was a test even for Satan. God had sentenced Satan to death for deceiving one third of His children during Satan’s rebellion/overthrow. But God wanted to put Satan through a final test to see if Satan would actually try and kill Him if given the chance. Satan knew that Christ was God in the flesh. And Satan proved that given the chance, he would try and kill God. Satan was behind the crucifixion of Christ through his children , the Kenites, those that said they were Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev2:9 and 3:9. Satan proving that given the chance, would attempt to kill God. God has no reservation now in destroying satan.

When Christ was on the cross and made the statement, Matt 27:46 and Mark 15:34, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? Now think about this my friends. Knowing that Christ was God in the flesh, how can God forsake God. It can’t and it didn’t happen. Christ wasn’t crying out that God had left him, He was quoting scripture, He was quoting prophecy, of King David.Psalms 22:1. Most don’t know that King David was a prophet.

Those three days that Christ was supposedly dead, He was not dead, but He had gone to those that had not over come or that one third that were deceived by Satan and offered them the plan of salvation. Christ did not lay in that tomb idle. He was offering the plan of salvation to all that had felled to overcome. Christ did come forth out of the Tomb on that third day to show forth the power and truth of God.

Sin did not enter this world though Adam first. Satan had already committed sin in that world that was, through his deceiving one third of Gods children during his rebellion. Now sin did enter this world of the flesh first by Adam but Satan had sinned before that sin of Adam.
 
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