Do Jews in Israel who don’t believe Jesus as the Messiah read different bible as Christians do?
- Thread starter Jellani
- Start date
Greetings,
regarding your question, i am not an expert but can share the little i know
The Jewish Scripture is called the TaNaKh. It is very similar to the Old Testament, however the books are arranged differently than they are in the Bible.
Most Jews in Israel do not read Scripture as is true of most people the world over, most have little to no interest in anything relation to God.
However, Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah [Christ] do not read the New Testament.
They therefore do not 'read' Scripture as a Christian does, as they do not 'see' Jesus as Lord neither in any other way the New Testament declares Him and all things pertaining to Him such as God being His Father. The Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ still look for a Messiah and their 'reading' of Scripture is done with that in mind.
Bless you ....><>
regarding your question, i am not an expert but can share the little i know
The Jewish Scripture is called the TaNaKh. It is very similar to the Old Testament, however the books are arranged differently than they are in the Bible.
Most Jews in Israel do not read Scripture as is true of most people the world over, most have little to no interest in anything relation to God.
However, Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Messiah [Christ] do not read the New Testament.
They therefore do not 'read' Scripture as a Christian does, as they do not 'see' Jesus as Lord neither in any other way the New Testament declares Him and all things pertaining to Him such as God being His Father. The Jews who do not accept Jesus Christ still look for a Messiah and their 'reading' of Scripture is done with that in mind.
Bless you ....><>
Greetings too @Hekuran @Br. Bear
Thank you for taking time answering this post, I am trying to understand now, but is the content of the IsraelBible ( Tanakh ) the same with us?
Then, why they still dont believe that the Messiah already came? Since the coming of the Messiah was prophesied in the Old Testament too.
And what makes those Messianic Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah?
Born Again 2004
Active
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2016
- Messages
- 2,082
Pretty simple. As many have discussed, the answer is yes and no. They only adhere to the Old Covenant or the first five books of our Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy . If they are true to this, they are Authodox and they believe Jesus was real but reject the idea that he was the Messiah!
Greetings,
this may help you to understand, also.
Please read it
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:4-6
Bless you ....><>
Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counseller?
Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things:
to whom be glory for ever.
Amen.
this may help you to understand, also.
Please read it
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:4-6
Bless you ....><>
Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counseller?
Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things:
to whom be glory for ever.
Amen.
Last edited:
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
They don't read the Bible...They read Torah....They reject the Bible
amadeus2
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,456
The content of the Old Testament is essentially the same as what the Jewish people consider scripture. Read the 4 gospels of the NT to see the way most Jewish leaders [Pharisees, scribes, and Sadducees] questioned Jesus and abused him when they could. As you see from those 4 gospels many did believe Jesus [most it was Jewish people to whom Jesus was dealing], but as Jesus got deeper into his ministry and closer to his end as a man of flesh, we see that many walked away from him.
"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." John 6:66
Any Christians, be they Jew or Gentile, essentially believe for the same reasons that you believe or that any of us on this forum believe.
To discover the reason why Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah your best place to get the answer would be to ask some of them. Most of us on this forum as not Jews.
You might also direct your questions to one member of this forum who I believe to be a messianic rabbi @Jimmie
You stated that Jewish leaders abused him. That is quite frankly, insulting.
Why is it that these same Jewish leaders, who supposedly "abused him", invited him to dinners, and to talk with them? Even in today's society, you don't invite someone over to talk something over unless you respect them.
I'd also like to point out in regards to "Messianic Judaism" that this is not a vaild movement (Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox are the main 3) within Judaism, and that most "Messianic Jewish Rabbis" are not Halakhicly Jewish, nor were they ordained in a Halakhic way/fashion, nor do they conduct themselves under/observe and keep Halakha.
Jews actually have the original Bible, the one that Jesus actually had and read. Jews have simply kept with the original G-d-given one, without the additives.
Spelling correction, "Authodox" was probably meant to be "Orthodox". I'd also like to point out that many Orthodox, and specifically the Haredim/Chassidim, completely reject the exsistence of a "Jesus/Yeshua of Nazareth".
Bendito
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 3,854
I stand corrected....Thank you
amadeus2
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,456
My response was to @Jellani.
Sorry if you don't like what I said. I was trying to help the questioner. Apparently I am not an expert on Jewry that you seem to be. However, I don't understand how you could fail to see the verbal as well as physical abuse Jesus suffered from some of those among the Jewish leaders within the 4 gospels accounts.
Brother-Paul
Loyal
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2015
- Messages
- 4,000
The Jews as stated by others have what we call the Old Testament, the first 5 books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers are the 'Books of the Law'
There are three main types of Jews, the ones that follow the original scripture, the G-d given scriptures, the ones who are like Christians who are not born again, and the ones who have found Jesus, their Messiah, Yeshua ha Mashiach.
I remember probably 25 years ago going to a large property on East Cliff in Bournemouth, it was a fellowship meeting with Messianic Jews, what a Blessed evening it was.
That night they had Helen Shapiro there to do a talk on her life, for those who are not aware she was a singer in the UK around 1960', one of her hits was 'Walking back to Happiness' which she sang after the talk. She confirmed how at 16 years of age as Jew she hates the song, but later found the Jewish Messiah. PTL
At the meeting with other messianic Jews and other Christians they danced the Jewish dances, which are like folk dances.
It was a wonderful evening, my friend and I felt so blessed to meet them and share with them. but there were two things that really stood out that night, what a lovely, warm friendly bunch they were, and it was truly clear that the Jews who know the Old Testament come alive when they find Jesus, Yeshua, their promised Messiah.
It was a long time ago but still as vividly clear in my mind today,
Salvation is of the Jews we should be so thankful for their errors, but pray for them also.
John 4:19-22 (NKJV)
19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
When the Jews rejected their Messiah, salvation was offered to the Gentile world, although the olive branch was broken it can be grafted back in, we too are grafted in and can easily be cut out. We are to remember where we come from and be grateful. God never forgets His children, but they did provoke Him to jealousy.
Romans 11:11-26 (NKJV)
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
We must not be antisemitic in any way against God's children, what ever we do against God's children we do against God.
Matthew 25:40-46 (NKJV)
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
There are three main types of Jews, the ones that follow the original scripture, the G-d given scriptures, the ones who are like Christians who are not born again, and the ones who have found Jesus, their Messiah, Yeshua ha Mashiach.
I remember probably 25 years ago going to a large property on East Cliff in Bournemouth, it was a fellowship meeting with Messianic Jews, what a Blessed evening it was.
That night they had Helen Shapiro there to do a talk on her life, for those who are not aware she was a singer in the UK around 1960', one of her hits was 'Walking back to Happiness' which she sang after the talk. She confirmed how at 16 years of age as Jew she hates the song, but later found the Jewish Messiah. PTL
At the meeting with other messianic Jews and other Christians they danced the Jewish dances, which are like folk dances.
It was a wonderful evening, my friend and I felt so blessed to meet them and share with them. but there were two things that really stood out that night, what a lovely, warm friendly bunch they were, and it was truly clear that the Jews who know the Old Testament come alive when they find Jesus, Yeshua, their promised Messiah.
It was a long time ago but still as vividly clear in my mind today,
Salvation is of the Jews we should be so thankful for their errors, but pray for them also.
John 4:19-22 (NKJV)
19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
When the Jews rejected their Messiah, salvation was offered to the Gentile world, although the olive branch was broken it can be grafted back in, we too are grafted in and can easily be cut out. We are to remember where we come from and be grateful. God never forgets His children, but they did provoke Him to jealousy.
Romans 11:11-26 (NKJV)
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.
15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
We must not be antisemitic in any way against God's children, what ever we do against God's children we do against God.
Matthew 25:40-46 (NKJV)
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Last edited by a moderator:
