Christianity/Politics

[Quantrill]

In Christianity, or in the Bible, there is no said pattern for people to establish a Christian government. In the Old Testament there was definitely a pattern but that was based on God ruling directly and being present in the midst of Israel. A Theocracy. But, for the Church we have no blueprint for a Christian government.

Yet all countries wherein Christianity has flourished, there is the greatest political freedoms enjoyed. And in those countries that suppress Christianity, there is the fewest freedoms enjoyed and a more rigid rule over the people.

Why is that? I know the answer is God and Jesus Christ, but I am looking at the motivation on man's part. Why is it that man who is Christian produces a freedom, and man who is not produces a bondage.

Quantrill

 

[Sue D.]

Because a believer Does have real freedom In Christ. The Holy Spirit indwelling each believer.

Before the cross -- we were in 'bondage' to sin. Slaves to it. The result of the cross is freedom from the bondage of sin. It no longer Needs to rule us. Lots of times we still Let it, and, to a certain extent -sin will Always have an influence to us. Until we are with Christ in eternity.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

. Why is it that man who is Christian produces a freedom, and man who is not produces a bondage.

A Sunday school chorus comes to mind

God is still on the throne
And He will remember His own

 

[Quantrill]

Because a believer Does have real freedom In Christ. The Holy Spirit indwelling each believer.

Before the cross -- we were in 'bondage' to sin. Slaves to it. The result of the cross is freedom from the bondage of sin. It no longer Needs to rule us. Lots of times we still Let it, and, to a certain extent -sin will Always have an influence to us. Until we are with Christ in eternity.

I agree. We as believers have real freedom in Christ. And we have the Holy Spirit which gives to our spirit, the desire to be right with God and do those things God would want us to do. Or, in other words, God can trust us that we have His interest at heart, even though we are fallen.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

A Sunday school chorus comes to mind

God is still on the throne
And He will remember His own

A good and correct chorus. And His own have been born of Him. And because of that, they seek Him, and His ways. Thus freedom and liberty are given to them, because they are of Him and seek Him.

(Ps. 119:45) "And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts."

Quantrill

 

[Chad]

In Christianity, or in the Bible, there is no said pattern for people to establish a Christian government. In the Old Testament there was definitely a pattern but that was based on God ruling directly and being present in the midst of Israel. A Theocracy. But, for the Church we have no blueprint for a Christian government.

Yet all countries wherein Christianity has flourished, there is the greatest political freedoms enjoyed. And in those countries that suppress Christianity, there is the fewest freedoms enjoyed and a more rigid rule over the people.

Why is that? I know the answer is God and Jesus Christ, but I am looking at the motivation on man's part. Why is it that man who is Christian produces a freedom, and man who is not produces a bondage.

Quantrill

Those who follow God faithfully and obediently reap blessings. It’s that simple.


“Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit. So let’s not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don’t give up.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭

 

[Bendito]

A good and correct chorus. And His own have been born of Him. And because of that, they seek Him, and His ways. Thus freedom and liberty are given to them, because they are of Him and seek Him.

(Ps. 119:45) "And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts."

Quantrill

Mr Quantrill, How do you suppose Jesus is going to rule during the millennium? What blueprint do you suppose He is going to use? He laid out laws and even He does not break those laws...And it's those laws that are the blueprint of a Christian government. Or His government. The laws?
Matthew 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How can any Christian say there is no blueprint?

 

[Quantrill]

Mr Quantrill, How do you suppose Jesus is going to rule during the millennium? What blueprint do you suppose He is going to use? He laid out laws and even He does not break those laws...And it's those laws that are the blueprint of a Christian government. Or His government. The laws?
Matthew 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How can any Christian say there is no blueprint?

With a 'rod of iron'. (Rev. 2:27, 12:5, 19:15)

The Church today does not rule with a rod of iron.

Stranger

 

[Quantrill]

Those who follow God faithfully and obediently reap blessings. It’s that simple.


“Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit. So let’s not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don’t give up.” ‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭

And so when a people are Christian and base their laws upon their Christian faith, then that country will reap the blessings of God. I agree.

Then take the U.S. for example whose country was peopled by a Christian people, and its laws built upon the Christian faith. It's laws were for a people who sought God and therefore could be trusted with the liberty and freedom noted in (Ps. 119:45). Can such liberty and freedom be trusted now when the U.S. has become atheistic and secular?

Stranger

 

[KingJ]

The rod of iron is evidence of not budging on what is right and good. Dictatorship and tyranny is never right and good. Hence our dictionary and historical understanding of 'rod of iron' rulership is not scriptural.

 

[KingJ]

Why is it that man who is Christian produces a freedom, and man who is not produces a bondage.

In a nutshell, Love verse hate. Light verse darkness.

Christianity pushes humility and teaches us to associate with the wicked in love 1 Cor 5:10. Allow for free will. A non Christian leans toward pride and hate. Selfishness. No humility. Natural selection. Dictatorship.

This thread reminds me of the fall of the Roman empire. A thousand year rule caved in with the rise of Christianity. Killing and conquering by the sword turned into charity and conquering with missionaries.

With the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 AD, Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene Christianity the Empire's state religion. In 476 AD Romulus, the last of the Roman emperors in the west, was overthrown by the Germanic leader Odoacer, who became the first Barbarian to rule in Rome.

 

[Bendito]

With a 'rod of iron'. (Rev. 2:27, 12:5, 19:15)

The Church today does not rule with a rod of iron.

Stranger

You are right sir; We do not rule at all...and how are we going to justify that disobedience when He gathers His people to Him?

 

[Sue D.]

Bendito -- a person's being raptured up and out of this world is based only on our salvation. There are born-again believers who aren't very spiritual at times, that won't keep them from being taken up with more spiritual believers.

There has Always been a remnant of believers -- This country is Not totally atheistic and secular. It's just that the atheistic and secular 'voice' is a Lot louder than ours is.

 

[Bendito]

Bendito -- a person's being raptured up and out of this world is based only on our salvation. There are born-again believers who aren't very spiritual at times, that won't keep them from being taken up with more spiritual believers.

There has Always been a remnant of believers -- This country is Not totally atheistic and secular. It's just that the atheistic and secular 'voice' is a Lot louder than ours is.

Frankly Sue...Since you never give scripture to back up what you say, I can only assume you are teaching Churchiantiy myth and not true Word I've asked you to back up your claims with Word and so far you refuse.

 

[Quantrill]

The rod of iron is evidence of not budging on what is right and good. Dictatorship and tyranny is never right and good. Hence our dictionary and historical understanding of 'rod of iron' rulership is not scriptural.

Read post [HASH=2092]#(8[/HASH]).

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You are right sir; We do not rule at all...and how are we going to justify that disobedience when He gathers His people to Him?

I said the church today does not rule with a rod of iron. What disobedience are you talking about? See again post [HASH=2092]#(8[/HASH]).

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Read post [HASH=2092]#(8[/HASH]).

Quantrill

As I said my friend...We do not rule with a rod of iron, we do not rule at all and we are supposed to have taken dominion over all that walks or breathes on this planet....And we, instead pontificate on how God is in control. while we sit on our hands...We are in disobedience to God's first blessing/command.

 

[Quantrill]

Frankly Sue...Since you never give scripture to back up what you say, I can only assume you are teaching Churchiantiy myth and not true Word I've asked you to back up your claims with Word and so far you refuse.

No, you know full well the Scripture concerning the Rapture. Thus you are being dishonest in your statement. You use the terms 'churchianity' and 'myth' so as to discredit what she says. What makes your claimes nothing but 'churchianity' and 'myth'?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

No, you know full well the Scripture concerning the Rapture. Thus you are being dishonest in your statement. You use the terms 'churchianity' and 'myth' so as to discredit what she says. What makes your claimes nothing but 'churchianity' and 'myth'?

Quantrill

The lack of scripture to back up her claims....That makes it myth...And since its being taught in the churches, its Churchianity...but I was talking to Sue.

 

[Quantrill]

As I said my friend...We do not rule with a rod of iron, we do not rule at all and we are supposed to have taken dominion over all that walks or breathes on this planet....And we, instead pontificate on how God is in contro. while we sit on our hands...We are in disobedience to God's first blessing/command.

You asked how Jesus is going to rule during the millennium. I told you, with a rod of iron. And I gave you Scripture to support. So, what's your problem.? As Jesus will rule with a rod of iron, will not the believers also? (Rev. 2;27)

Again, what disobedience are you talking about that you mentioned in post [HASH=2096]#(12[/HASH])? Where is your Scripture to back up what you say as you required of Sue D.?

Quantrill