Does God create people to go to hell

[Bill]

This sounds absurd, but look at what we think scripture says about being saved . So is there something more?

If it is by faith alone , then only those with faith or a certain knowledge will ever be saved. Faith is the precursor to knowledge. And if only the final outcome is based on knowledge, why are not the fallen Angels not back in heaven.

It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven.

It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS. Sorry didnt mean to yell. Lol

But this is true, we have to find love in our hearts. It is what all of scripture is based on.

Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love.

Jesus teaches us "Love God" with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your spirit and with all your strength.

So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved.

What is written in the New Testiment is this . For those who do not know the law, but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not actually "posses" the Law, but they can be said to be the Law. They can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children.

Just because we are privileged knowing we are Christian's, still does not give us the right to feel it is only "us" who are saved. Those who choose to think that way condemn themselves.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Just because we are privileged knowing we are Christian's, still does not give us the right to feel it is only "us" who are saved. Those who choose to think that way condemn themselves.

What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[Bendito]

This sounds absurd, but look at what we think scripture says about being saved . So is there something more?

If it is by faith alone , then only those with faith or a certain knowledge will ever be saved. Faith is the precursor to knowledge. And if only the final outcome is based on knowledge, why are not the fallen Angels not back in heaven.

It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven.

It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS. Sorry didnt mean to yell. Lol

But this is true, we have to find love in our hearts. It is what all of scripture is based on.

Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love.

Jesus teaches us "Love God" with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your spirit and with all your strength.

So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved.

What is written in the New Testiment is this . For those who do not know the law, but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not actually "posses" the Law, but they can be said to be the Law. They can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children.

Just because we are privileged knowing we are Christian's, still does not give us the right to feel it is only "us" who are saved. Those who choose to think that way condemn themselves.

Bill I'm going to leave the previous statements alone for now...I'll start here. You said. "It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven."
Faith alone does not bring us to Jesus...He came to us. It is not faith that saves us, it's Gods empowering PRESENCE in us that saves us. Faith is only a tool that we use to approach Him to link into Him.

You said. "It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS."
I'll give you a huge YES!!! for your yell that we have to receive Jesus into our hearts. We always look at the word 'receive' as being passive. But receive is a verb. Its an action word....We reach out and TAKE the salvation that Jesus shed His blood for you.
Then you said. "Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love."
And you're right again. Faith is the tool that you use to reach out and take. Faith is the tool that powers the action. But faith works by love. I like that you mentioned that. Everything in our walk works by love.

You ask. "So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved."
Where do they come in to this picture? Everybody on the planet WILL have a chance to know and accept Him...Before the Book was written, as in the days of Job, how did people know about God? How did they know what He wanted? Yes. There was knowledge passed down from Adam all the way to the writing of the Word. And there is the fact that people can, and do look around them at the creation. Any thinking person will look at creation and know that they know that they know that there MUST be an intelligent mind behind it all. And they choose to believe, to worship this being. God. And that will get them into heaven, forever.
Then, Bill, after all that...you said. "You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children." Do you realize that the Pharasees that Jesus blasted were not believers? They had the form of religion but denied all the power thereof...They were pagans and Jesus said they were NOT children of Abraham, children of God but they were children of Satan. Everybody gets to choose who's family they will be a part of. They choose.

 

[Bill]

Bill I'm going to leave the previous statements alone for now...I'll start here. You said. "It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven."
Faith alone does not bring us to Jesus...He came to us. It is not faith that saves us, it's Gods empowering PRESENCE in us that saves us. Faith is only a tool that we use to approach Him to link into Him.

You said. "It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS."
I'll give you a huge YES!!! for your yell that we have to receive Jesus into our hearts. We always look at the word 'receive' as being passive. But receive is a verb. Its an action word....We reach out and TAKE the salvation that Jesus shed His blood for you.
Then you said. "Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love."
And you're right again. Faith is the tool that you use to reach out and take. Faith is the tool that powers the action. But faith works by love. I like that you mentioned that. Everything in our walk works by love.

You ask. "So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved."
Where do they come in to this picture? Everybody on the planet WILL have a chance to know and accept Him...Before the Book was written, as in the days of Job, how did people know about God? How did they know what He wanted? Yes. There was knowledge passed down from Adam all the way to the writing of the Word. And there is the fact that people can, and do look around them at the creation. Any thinking person will look at creation and know that they know that they know that there MUST be an intelligent mind behind it all. And they choose to believe, to worship this being. God. And that will get them into heaven, forever.
Then, Bill, after all that...you said. "You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children." Do you realize that the Pharasees that Jesus blasted were not believers? They had the form of religion but denied all the power thereof...They were pagans and Jesus said they were NOT children of Abraham, children of God but they were children of Satan. Everybody gets to choose who's family they will be a part of. They choose.

My friend . All i have written is scripture , i just didnt include where all the verses are from.

Faith does bring us to Jesus . The multitude of times shown in the life of Jesus . The lady bleeding " if i only touch him" she really didnt "know " Jesus . But she had faith. The Centurian, came all the way to ask Jesus to heal his servant. He didnt know Jesus , but there was faith . Faith enough to spark this statement from Jesus , in all the land of Israel there was not greater faith. Shall i go on. The men who took off the roof . Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has healed you. Etc.

Jesus talks about judgement. The king separates those to his right and left. The failures, but Lord, we healed ppl in your name, we cast out demons in your name . And the Lord said , away from me, i never knew you.
And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me.

What is interesting here. Scripture never says that those going to everlasting life knew who Jesus was. But it does show what Paul teaches about having the Word engraved in the heart.

As for the Pharisees, there is scripture for ppl like that too.

Those who know the Law, and yet refuse to walk in the Law, have condemned themselves already.

There is a huge difference between those who know the Law, and those who do not know the Law.

The Law, if you are wondering , is the Word of God

 

[Bendito]

My friend . All i have written is scripture , i just didnt include where all the verses are from.

Faith does bring us to Jesus . The multitude of times shown in the life of Jesus . The lady bleeding " if i only touch him" she really didnt "know " Jesus . But she had faith. The Centurian, came all the way to ask Jesus to heal his servant. He didnt know Jesus , but there was faith . Faith enough to spark this statement from Jesus , in all the land of Israel there was not greater faith. Shall i go on. The men who took off the roof . Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has healed you. Etc.

Jesus talks about judgement. The king separates those to his right and left. The failures, but Lord, we healed ppl in your name, we cast out demons in your name . And the Lord said , away from me, i never knew you.
And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me.

And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me.

As for the Pharisees, there is scripture for ppl like that too.

Those who know the Law, and yet refuse to walk in the Law, have condemned themselves already.

There is a huge difference between those who know the Law, and those who do not know the Law.

The Law, if you are wondering , is the Word of God

You said. "Faith does bring us to Jesus . The multitude of times shown in the life of Jesus . The lady bleeding " if i only touch him" she really didnt "know " Jesus . But she had faith. The Centurian, came all the way to ask Jesus to heal his servant. He didnt know Jesus , but there was faith . Faith enough to spark this statement from Jesus , in all the land of Israel there was not greater faith. Shall i go on. The men who took off the roof . Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has healed you. Etc.

Faith may or may not bring us to Jesus. I assume here that you are talking about 'Faith in Jesus' because you can have faith in, for example; money and still go bankrupt. So you approach Jesus because you trust Him. But its His empowering presence that does the saving, healing, delivering etc.
Then you said. "Jesus talks about judgment. The king separates those to his right and left. The failures, but Lord, we healed ppl in your name, we cast out demons in your name. And the Lord said, away from me, I never knew you."
Do you realize how deep this scripture is? Here the Word is talking about the BRIDE. Those who healed, cast out demons and such actually did that. In Jesus name too. But they did not make themselves ready. All they did was to do works and little actual obedience to Him. But in rejecting them as the bride, He did not send them to hell. They are CHRISTIANS! They will go to heaven. They will be guests at the wedding feast, they will spend eternity in heaven. Not hell.
You said. "And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me."
I'm guessing that these are part of the bride. In heaven.
Then you said. "And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me."
And it never says they went to hell. In fact it DOES say they went to heaven. Read it in context.

 

[Bill]

You said. "Faith does bring us to Jesus . The multitude of times shown in the life of Jesus . The lady bleeding " if i only touch him" she really didnt "know " Jesus . But she had faith. The Centurian, came all the way to ask Jesus to heal his servant. He didnt know Jesus , but there was faith . Faith enough to spark this statement from Jesus , in all the land of Israel there was not greater faith. Shall i go on. The men who took off the roof . Your sins are forgiven. Your faith has healed you. Etc.

Faith may or may not bring us to Jesus. I assume here that you are talking about 'Faith in Jesus' because you can have faith in, for example; money and still go bankrupt. So you approach Jesus because you trust Him. But its His empowering presence that does the saving, healing, delivering etc.
Then you said. "Jesus talks about judgment. The king separates those to his right and left. The failures, but Lord, we healed ppl in your name, we cast out demons in your name. And the Lord said, away from me, I never knew you."
Do you realize how deep this scripture is? Here the Word is talking about the BRIDE. Those who healed, cast out demons and such actually did that. In Jesus name too. But they did not make themselves ready. All they did was to do works and little actual obedience to Him. But in rejecting them as the bride, He did not send them to hell. They are CHRISTIANS! They will go to heaven. They will be guests at the wedding feast, they will spend eternity in heaven. Not hell.
You said. "And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me."
I'm guessing that these are part of the bride. In heaven.
Then you said. "And those to everlasting life . What did we do??? And the Lord replied you fed the hungry, helped the suffering. When you did this for them you did it for me."
And it never says they went to hell. In fact it DOES say they went to heaven. Read it in context.

My friend.

You know not what you are saying. "Faith may or may not bring us to Jesus" . Faith always brings us to Jesus. But it is we who have to recieve Him. Jesus is the Living Water that we must drink to enter into the House of the Father.

What is Jesus, specifically . God, yes. And what is God. God is Love.
We must have love in our heart. True love. Deep love. So if a pagan dies with deep love for others in his heart. He already has Jesus. He may not know the Law, but the substance of the Law will be engraved on his heart.

 

[KingJ]

This sounds absurd, but look at what we think scripture says about being saved . So is there something more?

If it is by faith alone , then only those with faith or a certain knowledge will ever be saved. Faith is the precursor to knowledge. And if only the final outcome is based on knowledge, why are not the fallen Angels not back in heaven.

It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven.

It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS. Sorry didnt mean to yell. Lol

But this is true, we have to find love in our hearts. It is what all of scripture is based on.

Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love.

Jesus teaches us "Love God" with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your spirit and with all your strength.

So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved.

What is written in the New Testiment is this . For those who do not know the law, but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not actually "posses" the Law, but they can be said to be the Law. They can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children.

Just because we are privileged knowing we are Christian's, still does not give us the right to feel it is only "us" who are saved. Those who choose to think that way condemn themselves.

Excellent post.

 

[Dave M]

So if a pagan dies with deep love for others in his heart. He already has Jesus.

very interesting, so your saying that person is born again never hearing the gospel, but living a life of love.

do you think a person can be born again after they die?

 

[B-A-C]

Acts 4:12; "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

[Bill]

very interesting, so your saying that person is born again never hearing the gospel, but living a life of love.

do you think a person can be born again after they die?

You are not hearing the scripture. Paul writes concerning pagans, that a person who does not know the Law, (or the Word) yet does by reason what the Law requires.

What does the Law requier. What does the Word require. What does Jesus tell us to do. LOVE. LOVE GOD WILL YOUR WHOLE SELF. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

If a pagan Love's deeply in his heart, Jesus is already present. The pagan may not consciencely know Jesus. But the love of God is engraved on his heart

The pagan is already "born again"

This scripture is where Jesus is talking about judgement. Where those who have gone to eternal life say to the Lord. "When did we see you" and the Lords responce. "When you did this for the least, you did it for me"

 

[Bendito]

My friend.

You know not what you are saying. "Faith may or may not bring us to Jesus" . Faith always brings us to Jesus. But it is we who have to recieve Him. Jesus is the Living Water that we must drink to enter into the House of the Father.

What is Jesus, specifically . God, yes. And what is God. God is Love.
We must have love in our heart. True love. Deep love. So if a pagan dies with deep love for others in his heart. He already has Jesus. He may not know the Law, but the substance of the Law will be engraved on his heart.

Well, I did reread that post and I agree. We need faith to come to talk to Jesus, to present our problem etc. Faith, though, does not save us, and that's the angle I was looking at the post from.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bill
Hello Brother Bill,
I'm curious. How do understand Romans 9?
Especially as it pertains to the subject of the thread.

Thanks in advance.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

This sounds absurd, but look at what we think scripture says about being saved . So is there something more?

If it is by faith alone , then only those with faith or a certain knowledge will ever be saved. Faith is the precursor to knowledge. And if only the final outcome is based on knowledge, why are not the fallen Angels not back in heaven.

It is because faith alone only brings us to Jesus . Faith alone will not take you to the Father in heaven.

It is faith that brings us to the door to knock. "Knock and it shall be opened" but we HAVE TO RECIEVE JESUS INTO OUR HEARTS. Sorry didnt mean to yell. Lol

But this is true, we have to find love in our hearts. It is what all of scripture is based on.

Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind. Paul says that. But he also says , faith , hope, and love . And the greatest of these is love.

Jesus teaches us "Love God" with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your spirit and with all your strength.

So where does those who never knew God come in. How can they be saved.

What is written in the New Testiment is this . For those who do not know the law, but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not actually "posses" the Law, but they can be said to be the Law. They can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

You see, for even the pagans and all who do not know God are subject to Him. They are all His created children.

Just because we are privileged knowing we are Christian's, still does not give us the right to feel it is only "us" who are saved. Those who choose to think that way condemn themselves.

What does the WORD say?

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Bill]

@Bill
Hello Brother Bill,
I'm curious. How do understand Romans 9?
Especially as it pertains to the subject of the thread.

Thanks in advance.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Dear Nick, May God's love always fill you.

Many times when we read the scripture where it concerns God's judgement on those who know the Law. Or the Word. Versus pagans There is some confusion.

God comes down on the righteous religious for failing to do as the Law requires. But in its reading, we often assume the reading goes to evedyone, and not only those who know the Law.

There is a difference, trusting in good deeds , and having Christ living in your heart. These are two totally different things.

You can do good deeds all day long, and have no love in them. But a man whose heart is circumcised already lives in Christ. As scripture says " to be a Jew is not just to look like a Jew, and circumcision is more than a physical operation. The real Jew is the one who is inwardly a Jew, and the real operation is in the heart - something not of the letter but of the spirit. A Jew like that may not be praised by man, but he will be praised by God "

 

[Bill]

What does the WORD say?

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

My friend, is there a question. Or is the question in these quotes. Please be plain. Im not a brainiac.

Your brother

 

[Bill]

Well, I did reread that post and I agree. We need faith to come to talk to Jesus, to present our problem etc. Faith, though, does not save us, and that's the angle I was looking at the post from.

Answer me this one question my brother , what is Christ?

 

[Bill]

Acts 4:12; "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

This is absolutely correct. No ONE, goes to the Father ' but through Me' .

Once you understand what Jesus means "but through me" . Then you will understand me.

 

[Bill]

very interesting, so your saying that person is born again never hearing the gospel, but living a life of love.

do you think a person can be born again after they die?

See Romans 2: 13 and 14

It is not listening to the Law, but keeping it that will make ppl holy in the sight of God. Forinstance pagans who never heard the Law but are lead by reason to do what the Law commands, may not accually, "possess " the Law. But they can be said to " be " the Law.

Romans 2:15 they can point to the substance of the Law engraved on thier hearts.

What is the Law? The Word of God.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

The Law that possess the pagans, that is engraved on thier hearts is the Word, Jesus. These are already born again as thier hearts are circumcised.

 

[Bill]

very interesting, so your saying that person is born again never hearing the gospel, but living a life of love.

do you think a person can be born again after they die?

Is being born again only a physical thing. And is hearing the Word of God only something that you hear with your ears.

If you do not hear with your heart, you are not hearing at all. Stop thinking so much in the physical. We recieve Christ with our hearts.

Jesussays to Love God with your mind, Love God with your heart, Love God Love God Love God.

It is the key to our salvation. If you can not recieve Jesus into your heart, you will never enter heaven.

I am sorry to bring you tears my brother. But i can tell you. Be joyful. When i am finished , i will join you in Heaven.

 

[Bendito]

My friend, is there a question. Or is the question in these quotes. Please be plain. Im not a brainiac.

Your brother

I simply asked what the Word says about the question. Does God create men to go to hell? In light of the Word, it becomes a ridiculous question.
John 3:14-17 (KJV)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.





2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.