The resurrection: revisted

[B-A-C]

First of all, the resurrection hasn't happened yet.... not for anyone except Jesus.

2 Tim 2:18; men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

Anyone who tells you otherwise has "gone astray from the truth".

Second, the resurrection does not happen until "the last day" when the trumpet sounds.

John 6:39; "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54; "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24; Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Third, the body you are in now is NOT your resurrected body.

1 Cor 15:35; But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?"
1 Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

You don't get a new resurrected body unless the old body dies.

1 Cor 15:37; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1 Cor 15:38; But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
1 Cor 15:39; All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
1 Cor 15:40; There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
1 Cor 15:41; There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
1 Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1 Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

It is raised as spiritual body.

1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

Even if the rapture or second coming happens while we are still alive, our bodies will be changed instantly.
If you are alive and still in your fleshly body, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God... at least not quite yet.

1 Cor 15:50; Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Cor 15:51; Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Cor 15:53; For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In fact those dead saints (Christians who are "asleep") will be resurrected before the rest of us who are still alive on "the last day".

1 Thes 4:13; But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
1 Thes 4:14; For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thes 4:18; Therefore comfort one another with these words.

We aren't all resurrected at random tmes that are different for every person. We are all resurrected together, during the same "hour" (possibly the same minute).

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[B-A-C]

Being a B-A-C (Born Again Christian) is not the same thing as being resurrected. However the two events do use some similar language.

John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:7; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
1 Pet 1:3; Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Pet 1:23; for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

You are "born again" while you still alive in your natural fleshly body. However the Bible uses language about dying to the "old self".

Rom 6:6; knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Eph 4:22; that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
Col 3:9; Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,

Rom 6:6; above says we were crucified with Him. Obviously we weren't literally crucified with Jesus. You wouldn't be here alive reading this if you were.

Romans is full of this type of language.

Rom 6:7; for he who has died is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8; Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Rom 6:10; For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Dying to self doesn't mean your natural fleshly body has to die (at least not yet). Dying to self means dying to the things you want, and putting the things God wants first in your life.
Dying to self, means dying to sin. When we are born again we "live to God".

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Taking up your cross was an expression of "dying to self". Jesus says we have to do this "daily". Obviously our natural fleshly bodies can't die everyday.

Paul said the same thing.
1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Of course Paul didn't literally die everyday. But he chose to die to his own wants and lusts and desires to live for Christ.
If we want to be "born again", we have to "crucify" the old man and put on the new man. Who is the new man?

Eph 4:24; and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Col 3:10; and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him—

... I'm sure there is more to say about this, but I am out of time for now.

 

[B-A-C]

If you still don't think they are two seprate things, keep this in mind.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Even the un-saved "who comiitted the evil deeds" will be resurrected. But they certainly aren't born again.

 

[B-A-C]

Here is another way to tell if you are resurrected yet.

Matt 22:23; On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,
Matt 22:24; asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.'
Matt 22:25; "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;
Matt 22:26; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.
Matt 22:27; "Last of all, the woman died.
Matt 22:28; "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
Matt 22:29; But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Matt 22:30; "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Matt 22:31; "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
Matt 22:32; 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

In the resurrection, no one is married. If you are married, guess what... you're not resurrected yet. (But then, no one except Jesus is resurrected yet)

Mark 12:18; Some Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection) *came to Jesus, and began questioning Him, saying,
Mark 12:19; "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that IF A MAN'S BROTHER DIES and leaves behind a wife AND LEAVES NO CHILD, HIS BROTHER SHOULD MARRY THE WIFE AND RAISE UP CHILDREN TO HIS BROTHER.
Mark 12:20; "There were seven brothers; and the first took a wife, and died leaving no children.
Mark 12:21; "The second one married her, and died leaving behind no children; and the third likewise;
Mark 12:22; and so all seven left no children. Last of all the woman died also.
Mark 12:23; "In the resurrection, when they rise again, which one's wife will she be? For all seven had married her."
Mark 12:24; Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
Mark 12:25; "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Mark 12:26; "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'?
Mark 12:27; "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

This is a great passage about eternal life however. God told Moses He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
These people had already been "dead" for hundreds of years before Moses came along. Yet God said He was still the God of them.
How can that be if they aren't resurrected, and just stay "dead" forever.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[B-A-C]

Hebrews 11 is called the "faith" chapter of the Bible. It has a list of people that are called the "Heros of the faith".
Now it seems that perhaps we don't all receive exactly the same resurrection, but perhaps some will receive "a better resurrection" than others.

Heb 11:35; Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
Heb 11:36; and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37; They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
Heb 11:38; (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
Heb 11:39; And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40; because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

So when does this resurrection happen?

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

It seems this will happen at the end of the millennial reign.

Paul says in Philippians that he didn't think he had "attained" the resurrection yet.

Php 3:8; More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
Php 3:9; and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
Php 3:10; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Php 3:11; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12; Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13; Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14; I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

There was a discussion here on TJ about if we have to be perfect to be Christians, yet Paul says here, he hadn't already become perfect yet.

Again we see here, that we will be transformed, our bodies will be changed.

Php 3:21; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

 

[B-A-C]

The phrase "eternal life" is in the new testament over 40 times. Here are a couple of examples.

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

But our bodies are not eternal. No, we get "new bodies" to wear in eternity.

 

[Quantrill]

(Col. 2:12) "Buried with him in Baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Quantrill

 

[Hekuran]

(Col. 2:12) "Buried with him in Baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Quantrill

How do you understand this to be consistent with the passages from the Bible that BAC quoted?

 

[Quantrill]

How do you understand this to be consistent with the passages from the Bible that BAC quoted?

I'm not interested in going through 6 pages of Bible verses to explain. If you think (Col. 2:12) is inconsistent with any of these other verses, tell me why.

Though our bodies have not been resurrected, our spirits have been. (1 Pet. 1:3) (Col. 2:12) This is the new birth. We are born-again by the resurrection of Christ. We as resurrected spirits simply wait for the resurrection of the body. (Eph. 1:14) " Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession,...." Our spirits are raised with Him. (Col. 2:12) (Col. 3:1)

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

(Col. 2:12) "Buried with him in Baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Actually I agree with this verse also. This is a symbollic passage. I actually think Quantrill explained it well.

Col 2:8; See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Col 2:10; and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Col 2:11; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Col 2:12; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Notice here it says you have been circumcised, this doesn't mean you have been physically been circumcised, but rather spiritually circumcised "without hands".
No physical man did this to you. This passage is also about baptism. If we take this literally then no one is "raised up with Him" unless they have been baptized.
However if it is spiritually speaking, this is a metaphor. Some churches I have attended quote this passage when they baptize people.
Going under the water symbolizes, being buried in the grave beneath the ground. Coming back up out of the water symbolizes being "raised up with Him".
Now obviously you didn't physically die, you haven't actually been buried in the ground yet, therefore this is speaking spiritually.

 

[B-A-C]

Another similar passage that people struggle with...

Eph 2:1; And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2; in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Eph 2:3; Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Notice we "were dead" (even though we are physically alive). This is a clue that this talking about your spiritual state.
When we were dead, we followed after our lusts of our flesh, and indulged in the desires of the flesh. Anyone who calls themselves a Christian might want to do a quick self-check
and see if they are following after Jesus or following after the lusts of the flesh.

Eph 2:4; But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5; even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

.. spiritually dead, not physically.

Eph 2:6; and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7; so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

We have been "raised up" with Jesus and seated in the heavenly places. Obviously our physical bodies haven't been resurrected yet (we aren't even physically dead yet)
Given the context of the other two verses in this passage, it is our spirit that is "seated in the heavenly places". Not our resurrected bodies.

 

[B-A-C]

Being born again, is not the same thing as being resurrected.

John 3:2; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."
John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:4; Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
John 3:5; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
John 3:8; "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Twice here Jesus tells Nicodemus that people cannot see the kingdom of God, unless they have been "born again".
Nicodemus thinks Jesus is talking about the physical body. He asks if he can go into his mothers womb a second time.
Jesus makes it clear He isn't talking about the body. He says unless you are born of "the Spirit" you are not born again.
That which is flesh... is flesh. That which is Spirit is spirit.

Being born again has very little to do with your natural, fleshly body.

 

[B-A-C]

I mentioned earlier, everyone gets resurrected. It doesn't matter if they are saved or not.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

However, everyone doesn't end up in the same place after they are resurrected.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[Quantrill]

Actually I agree with this verse also. This is a symbollic passage. I actually think Quantrill explained it well.

Col 2:8; See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Col 2:10; and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Col 2:11; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Col 2:12; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Notice here it says you have been circumcised, this doesn't mean you have been physically been circumcised, but rather spiritually circumcised "without hands".
No physical man did this to you. This passage is also about baptism. If we take this literally then no one is "raised up with Him" unless they have been baptized.
However if it is spiritually speaking, this is a metaphor. Some churches I have attended quote this passage when they baptize people.
Going under the water symbolizes, being buried in the grave beneath the ground. Coming back up out of the water symbolizes being "raised up with Him".
Now obviously you didn't physically die, you haven't actually been buried in the ground yet, therefore this is speaking spiritually.

It is not symbolic. It is a real occurrence. We have been raised, resurrected with Christ.

Quantrill

 

[B-A-C]

It is not symbolic. It is a real occurrence. We have been raised, resurrected with Christ.

Spiritually raised yes, bodily resurrected no. If people can see you, you're still here. You're not in heaven.

 

[B-A-C]

Has anyone ascended to heaven yet?

John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Well Jesus has.

Acts 2:34; "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

 

[B-A-C]

* bump *