Simething Perplexing

[Bill]

I know there is a little debate in the discussion "Does Paradice still Exist" . But i think this needs its own format.

As we know, all sin separates us from God. But in reguards to sin itself. What can be perplexing are the scriptures themselves.

The Old Testiment is clear on how God judged the people of Sodem and Gamora (im sure my spelling is off). And the teachings of Moses are very clear on may other things including the Ten Commandments. Also the death of a man trying to steady the Covenant Box.

With all this in mind. Why does Jesus state in Scripture, those in Sodem will be judged less harshly than the ppl of this age.

I mean what hell is worse. Or is there something missing. Sin is sin right?

What about the Sin against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

Well there are other instances. But im just throwing these out for you guys to mull over.

May the Lord Jesus Bless us all

 

[Chad4Him]

I know there is a little debate in the discussion "Does Paradice still Exist" . But i think this needs its own format.

As we know, all sin separates us from God. But in reguards to sin itself. What can be perplexing are the scriptures themselves.

The Old Testiment is clear on how God judged the people of Sodem and Gamora (im sure my spelling is off). And the teachings of Moses are very clear on may other things including the Ten Commandments. Also the death of a man trying to steady the Covenant Box.

With all this in mind. Why does Jesus state in Scripture, those in Sodem will be judged less harshly than the ppl of this age.

I mean what hell is worse. Or is there something missing. Sin is sin right?

What about the Sin against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

Well there are other instances. But im just throwing these out for you guys to mull over.

May the Lord Jesus Bless us all

I would also like to hear thoughts on some being "judged more harshly than others".

But it seems that the reason for this harsh judgement on the people around Jesus vs. Sodom and Gomorrah is that Jesus was appearing in the flesh to the people, and they were rejecting him. They had ultimate accountability, you might say.

I think that ties together with the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit topic:

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, that this fellow casts out the demons.” 25 He knew what they were thinking and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 If I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own exorcists[b] cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his property, without first tying up the strong man? Then indeed the house can be plundered. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The Pharisees were not only rejecting Jesus, who they saw right in front of them, but they were calling His works the works of the devil.

Christians today can come to the place where they decide to allow sin in their lives, and excuse themselves, think they are ok. The Holy Spirit comes and convicts them, and instead of submitting to this correction, they continue unrepentantly sinning - and eventually they denounce the voice that is convicting them as being the devil accusing them. How can such a person repent? Unless they come to their senses before the Holy Spirit turns away in grief and they no longer hear His voice, they will find out on the judgement day that they had deceived themselves.

Here is an article that I have found helpful: Got Questions - Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

 

[Bill]

I would also like to hear thoughts on some being "judged more harshly than others".

But it seems that the reason for this harsh judgement on the people around Jesus vs. Sodom and Gomorrah is that Jesus was appearing in the flesh to the people, and they were rejecting him. They had ultimate accountability, you might say.

I think that ties together with the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit topic:

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, that this fellow casts out the demons.” 25 He knew what they were thinking and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 If I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own exorcists[b] cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come to you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his property, without first tying up the strong man? Then indeed the house can be plundered. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The Pharisees were not only rejecting Jesus, who they saw right in front of them, but they were calling His works the works of the devil.

Christians today can come to the place where they decide to allow sin in their lives, and excuse themselves, think they are ok. The Holy Spirit comes and convicts them, and instead of submitting to this correction, they continue unrepentantly sinning - and eventually they denounce the voice that is convicting them as being the devil accusing them. How can such a person repent? Unless they come to their senses before the Holy Spirit turns away in grief and they no longer hear His voice, they will find out on the judgement day that they had deceived themselves.

Here is an article that I have found helpful: Got Questions - Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Thank you Chad.

Yes indeed, they were judging Jesus. Also, if i remember my studies. During that period. Some years before John the Baptism came into the picture all the way to the death of Jesus. There was a high expectancy of the coming of the Messiah.

During this time King Herod was perinoid of being replaced. So anyone proclaiming to be from God was squelched

 

[Dave M]

Sin is sin right?

@Bill

can you elaborate on this a little more

 

[Bill]

@Bill

can you elaborate on this a little more

Open discussion for all.

When i look an any sin. It is plainly the sepration between your will and the will of God.

When we see the scripture Jesus says curious things. Like my Jesus quote. This generation will be judged more harshly that Sodem and Gomorrah.

What is more harshly than what they got.

 

[KingJ]

I know there is a little debate in the discussion "Does Paradice still Exist" . But i think this needs its own format.

As we know, all sin separates us from God. But in reguards to sin itself. What can be perplexing are the scriptures themselves.

The Old Testiment is clear on how God judged the people of Sodem and Gamora (im sure my spelling is off). And the teachings of Moses are very clear on may other things including the Ten Commandments. Also the death of a man trying to steady the Covenant Box.

With all this in mind. Why does Jesus state in Scripture, those in Sodem will be judged less harshly than the ppl of this age.

I mean what hell is worse. Or is there something missing. Sin is sin right?

What about the Sin against the Holy Spirit, the unforgivable sin.

Well there are other instances. But im just throwing these out for you guys to mull over.

May the Lord Jesus Bless us all

Sin is sin and sin has degrees.

Degrees of sin:

If we read Matt 5:28 it is clear that we have all sinned. We have all committed the sin of adultery in our minds. However if we read Matt 5:32 (just four verses down) we see that only actual adultery is grounds for divorce. Nobody can divorce for thoughts as Matt 19:9 also confirms.

In the OT we see capital punishment ordained by God to the prophets. A stoning to death for certain sins. Adultery, murder, witchcraft. Then we also see lessor punishments. Like excommunication and warnings.

There is a theme throughout the bible. One of sin needing to be full measure before God's destruction comes on us. Us continuing in severer sins points to us being closer to our love of sin being full measure. Sodom was not destroyed with fire and brimstone because it was reported that people were occasionally stealing candy from the candy store.

I truly do not understand how people turn their brains off when discerning sin, crimes and fitting punishments. On the subject of knowing what is wrong and right and the degrees thereto we are on the same level as God Gen 3:22. Capable of grasping the evil of murder, just as God does. We are able to grasp a fitting punishment for a murderer, just as God does. We are able to grasp that you cannot put / keep children with pedophiles, just as God does.

Read 1 Cor 6:1-9. Paul urges us to judge properly. He says we will judge angels. He says we have the ability to do so. He will not be impressed if after preaching this, one of us come to him and say ''sin is sin. A murderer deserves the same punishment as a hungry child stealing a loaf of bread''.

Sin is sin:

There are two important things to understand on 'sin is sin'.

1. We are all sinners. Only God is good Mark 10:18. In Hades, the bad side and the good side (Abrahams bosom) both housed sinners. The difference was that those in Abrahams bosom were sinners that had repented truthfully Psalm 51:17 and those on the other side were unrepentant sinners / people sold out to sin / whose sin was full measure.

As John 3:19 confirms 'This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil'.

2. No sinners, repentant or unrepentant could make a sacrifice worthy of being with God. All were cast out until the cross. Only Jesus can reconcile a sinner with God. Only a sinner who desires true repentance wants to be reconciled with God.

I believe there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of reward in heaven Rom 2:6 Each will be rewarded according to what they have done.

 

[Bill]

Sin is sin and sin has degrees.

Degrees of sin:

If we read Matt 5:28 it is clear that we have all sinned. We have all committed the sin of adultery in our minds. However if we read Matt 5:32 (just four verses down) we see that only actual adultery is grounds for divorce. Nobody can divorce for thoughts as Matt 19:9 also confirms.

In the OT we see capital punishment ordained by God to the prophets. A stoning to death for certain sins. Adultery, murder, witchcraft. Then we also see lessor punishments. Like excommunication and warnings.

There is a theme throughout the bible. One of sin needing to be full measure before God's destruction comes on us. Us continuing in severer sins points to us being closer to our love of sin being full measure. Sodom was not destroyed with fire and brimstone because it was reported that people were occasionally stealing candy from the candy store.

I truly do not understand how people turn their brains off when discerning sin, crimes and fitting punishments. On the subject of knowing what is wrong and right and the degrees thereto we are on the same level as God Gen 3:22. Capable of grasping the evil of murder, just as God does. We are able to grasp a fitting punishment for a murderer, just as God does. We are able to grasp that you cannot put / keep children with pedophiles, just as God does.

Read 1 Cor 6:1-9. Paul urges us to judge properly. He says we will judge angels. He says we have the ability to do so. He will not be impressed if after preaching this, one of us come to him and say ''sin is sin. A murderer deserves the same punishment as a hungry child stealing a loaf of bread''.

Sin is sin:

There are two important things to understand on 'sin is sin'.

1. We are all sinners. Only God is good Mark 10:18. In Hades, the bad side and the good side (Abrahams bosom) both housed sinners. The difference was that those in Abrahams bosom were sinners that had repented truthfully Psalm 51:17 and those on the other side were unrepentant sinners / people sold out to sin / whose sin was full measure.

As John 3:19 confirms 'This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil'.

2. No sinners, repentant or unrepentant could make a sacrifice worthy of being with God. All were cast out until the cross. Only Jesus can reconcile a sinner with God. Only a sinner who desires true repentance wants to be reconciled

Sin is sin and sin has degrees.

Degrees of sin:

If we read Matt 5:28 it is clear that we have all sinned. We have all committed the sin of adultery in our minds. However if we read Matt 5:32 (just four verses down) we see that only actual adultery is grounds for divorce. Nobody can divorce for thoughts as Matt 19:9 also confirms.

In the OT we see capital punishment ordained by God to the prophets. A stoning to death for certain sins. Adultery, murder, witchcraft. Then we also see lessor punishments. Like excommunication and warnings.

There is a theme throughout the bible. One of sin needing to be full measure before God's destruction comes on us. Us continuing in severer sins points to us being closer to our love of sin being full measure. Sodom was not destroyed with fire and brimstone because it was reported that people were occasionally stealing candy from the candy store.

I truly do not understand how people turn their brains off when discerning sin, crimes and fitting punishments. On the subject of knowing what is wrong and right and the degrees thereto we are on the same level as God Gen 3:22. Capable of grasping the evil of murder, just as God does. We are able to grasp a fitting punishment for a murderer, just as God does. We are able to grasp that you cannot put / keep children with pedophiles, just as God does.

Read 1 Cor 6:1-9. Paul urges us to judge properly. He says we will judge angels. He says we have the ability to do so. He will not be impressed if after preaching this, one of us come to him and say ''sin is sin. A murderer deserves the same punishment as a hungry child stealing a loaf of bread''.

Sin is sin:

There are two important things to understand on 'sin is sin'.

1. We are all sinners. Only God is good Mark 10:18. In Hades, the bad side and the good side (Abrahams bosom) both housed sinners. The difference was that those in Abrahams bosom were sinners that had repented truthfully Psalm 51:17 and those on the other side were unrepentant sinners / people sold out to sin / whose sin was full measure.

As John 3:19 confirms 'This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil'.

2. No sinners, repentant or unrepentant could make a sacrifice worthy of being with God. All were cast out until the cross. Only Jesus can reconcile a sinner with God. Only a sinner who desires true repentance wants to be reconciled with God.

I believe there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of reward in heaven Rom 2:6 Each will be rewarded according to what they have done.

God.

I believe there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of reward in heaven Rom 2:6 Each will be rewarded according to what they have done.

Are you saying there are 2 hells then? What is the difference between what you are saying and the catholics view of Purgatory?

 

[KingJ]

Are you saying there are 2 hells then? What is the difference between what you are saying and the catholics view of Purgatory?

No, but I will explain.

In the OT there was a divide in Hades. God made a place called Abraham's bosom in Hades. Currently nobody is therein as Jesus proclaimed the good news to them and they went with Him to heaven. We have a thread running here with all the scripture you need.

Hades will then be thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the eternal home of the wicked. The more appropriate place to call hell I guess.

Purgatory is taught in the Maccabees. It is a place of suffering where sinners cleanse themselves for heaven. I am not Catholic, so don't quote me, but from my memory I believe they believe some go straight to hell. Those who are clear mortal sinners. Then those who are saints will go straight to heaven. Those who are not, but not necessarily sold out to wickedness will go to purgatory, before heaven. It is not completely illogical.

Though Protestants reject it entirely as it does undermine what Jesus did on the cross. Which to me makes a lot more sense. God punishes us in purgatory, when we are all sinners, then puts us in heaven. Seems odd.

 

[Dave M]

Purgatory is taught in the Maccabees. It is a place of suffering where sinners cleanse themselves for heaven. I am not Catholic, so don't quote me, but from my memory I believe they believe some go straight to hell. Those who are clear mortal sinners. Then those who are saints will go straight to heaven. Those who are not, but not necessarily sold out to wickedness will go to purgatory, before heaven. It is not completely illogical.

that seems to take away from grace and Jesus. It sure sounds nice though doesnt it.