Unbelievers or Believers?

[Bendito]

How is it that professing Christians can deny; the trinity, the divinity of Jesus, The pretrib rapture, Healing for us that is bought and paid for, And signs that follow believers. The Bible is replete with scripture that tells us that these things are true. Yet we have 'Christians' all over the map that fight against these things. My question is...Are they Christians in fact? Or just Christians because they were born in a 'Christian' country? Certainly they are not believers because if they were, they would not be fighting the Word! And if we who call ourselves believers see no signs following...are we truly believers?

My Lady and I were at a bible study one time many years ago. We were looking at Mark 16. When Mark 16:17-18 was read;
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

My Lady asked a question.....She asked. "If we are believers, why is it we so seldom see these things? Why is healing, for example, almost accidental in our churches, rather than the norm?

It was freakout time in that group, and it never ended even after they kicked us out of the church....

 

[Ivar]

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[Dave M]

? Why is healing, for example, almost accidental in our churches, rather than the norm?

You know I can so relate to this, not until just recent had I ever asked anyone to pray over me for healing, yet just recently a freind of mine was over the house and he was telling me about all these miracles he had seen, I felt prompted to ask him to pray for my hurt shoulder and praise the Lord it was healed !!!! and it dawned on me this is something new to me, but it should be a regular thing we should be always praying over the sick laying hands on them. Since them I have prayed over a sick freind a couple of times and it is really a good peaceful feeling. ( this is a first time for me doing this)

Seems to me most people including me are a little timid of the super natural, although I am growing spiritually and starting to see I should not be I should embrace it as it is a gift from God !! From my own experience I think it is due to maturity in faith.

I will say my church has a healing service every few moths, and at every service we have the elders present in the front to pray over anyone who wants them to for healing or anything, and we have seen many healings. I have only been at this church gong on 3 years now, but its the real deal. Compared to my old catholic church that you would never hear such talk of things like laying on hands or tongues.

So I really think your question is spot on, as most of the churches are dealing with milk instead of meat when it comes to scripture and faith.

 

[amadeus2]

How is it that professing Christians can deny; the trinity, the divinity of Jesus, The pretrib rapture, Healing for us that is bought and paid for, And signs that follow believers. The Bible is replete with scripture that tells us that these things are true. Yet we have 'Christians' all over the map that fight against these things. My question is...Are they Christians in fact? Or just Christians because they were born in a 'Christian' country? Certainly they are not believers because if they were, they would not be fighting the Word! And if we who call ourselves believers see no signs following...are we truly believers?

My Lady and I were at a bible study one time many years ago. We were looking at Mark 16. When Mark 16:17-18 was read;
Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

My Lady asked a question.....She asked. "If we are believers, why is it we so seldom see these things? Why is healing, for example, almost accidental in our churches, rather than the norm?

It was freakout time in that group, and it never ended even after they kicked us out of the church....

I do not deny such things as per your question in the first line, but neither do I necessarily believe them or embrace them. As you say a person is able to find many scriptures to support those conclusions/beliefs, but a person, so inclined, can also find many contradictory conclusions/beliefs based on the scriptures. It does, I believe, have something to with where we start as well as how we travel along the highway of holiness. Then again what does God expect us to do? Does He expect to search and pray or to simply fall into line agreeing with the first preacher or teacher or pastor we meet?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we are really seeking first those things, His kingdom and His righteousness, will He not then add anything else that is really needed?

"For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:5-7

Then again...

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,

As Amades2 has presented. God uses who He wills. If a believer has the Holy Ghost, God's Spirit can raise up in the believer at a time and speak to that believer to lay hands on the sick, or have that person give a word of knowledge. It's about God - who bought that person with a price because and that person is no longer their own (1Cor. 6:19, 20).

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? NO!

 

[Bendito]

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: trinity

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search God The Son

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search God The Holy Spirit

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search God The Father

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search Three God

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search Three Gods

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search One God

I'm not even going to bother with this one....He has done no study...

 

[Bendito]

You know I can so relate to this, not until just recent had I ever asked anyone to pray over me for healing, yet just recently a freind of mine was over the house and he was telling me about all these miracles he had seen, I felt prompted to ask him to pray for my hurt shoulder and praise the Lord it was healed !!!! and it dawned on me this is something new to me, but it should be a regular thing we should be always praying over the sick laying hands on them. Since them I have prayed over a sick freind a couple of times and it is really a good peaceful feeling. ( this is a first time for me doing this)

Seems to me most people including me are a little timid of the super natural, although I am growing spiritually and starting to see I should not be I should embrace it as it is a gift from God !! From my own experience I think it is due to maturity in faith.

I will say my church has a healing service every few moths, and at every service we have the elders present in the front to pray over anyone who wants them to for healing or anything, and we have seen many healings. I have only been at this church gong on 3 years now, but its the real deal. Compared to my old catholic church that you would never hear such talk of things like laying on hands or tongues.

So I really think your question is spot on, as most of the churches are dealing with milk instead of meat when it comes to scripture and faith.

Good for you Dave! Our healing was bought and paid for two thousand years ago. It's a done deal as you are learning. Praise God!

 

[Bendito]

I do not deny such things as per your question in the first line, but neither do I necessarily believe them or embrace them. As you say a person is able to find many scriptures to support those conclusions/beliefs, but a person, so inclined, can also find many contradictory conclusions/beliefs based on the scriptures. It does, I believe, have something to with where we start as well as how we travel along the highway of holiness. Then again what does God expect us to do? Does He expect to search and pray or to simply fall into line agreeing with the first preacher or teacher or pastor we meet?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

If we are really seeking first those things, His kingdom and His righteousness, will He not then add anything else that is really needed?

"For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:5-7

Then again...

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

Again my dear friend, seek the Holy Spirit on this...He'll show you. I promise for Him. You tell the Holy Spirit I promised in His name that He will show you. I promised for Him.

 

[Bendito]

@Life,

As Amades2 has presented. God uses who He wills. If a believer has the Holy Ghost, God's Spirit can raise up in the believer at a time and speak to that believer to lay hands on the sick, or have that person give a word of knowledge. It's about God - who bought that person with a price because and that person is no longer their own (1Cor. 6:19, 20).

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? NO!

So you're saying that God uses some people but the rest are far too useless for Him to use? Okay.... But that is a pretty weak excuse for one sitting on one's hands don't you?

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

So you're saying that God uses some people but the rest are far too useless for Him to use? Okay.... But that is a pretty weak excuse for one sitting on one's hands don't you?

I'll let you read it again to get a better understanding of what's being said.

If a believer has the Holy Ghost, God's Spirit "can"raise up in the believer, at a time, and speak to that believer to "lay hands on the sick,"or "have that person give a word of knowledge." "It's about God" - who bought that person with a price because that person is no longer their own (1Cor. 6:19, 20).

1 Corinthians 12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1 Corinthians 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? NO!
1 Corinthians 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?NO!

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,


I'll let you read it again to get a better understanding of what's being said.



1 Corinthians 12:7
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1 Corinthians 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:29
Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? NO!
1 Corinthians 12:30
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?NO!

Ok...

 

[amadeus2]

Again my dear friend, seek the Holy Spirit on this...He'll show you. I promise for Him. You tell the Holy Spirit I promised in His name that He will show you. I promised for Him.

Thank you for your promise, but that is not for me...

Way back when from the time I started on Christian Internet forums, some 20 years ago I have argued these things for naught. What I learn was to stop arguing as God gives the increase and He has increased me much from prior to that and since then. There are some things more important than how we see or do not see the Trinity of God or the lack thereof. On that point I prayed and I studied and I listened to all of the arguments. I have a solution for me but the last time I started to share it here on this I was accused of not even being a follower of Christ, or perhaps worse... even though all of my points were according to scripture. I won't present it and lose any place here as likely no one would be edified by my expulsion. The most important thing is charity or love. Without that all of the knowledge... even of the scriptures or the nature of God would make me nothing. I am more than that because of Him, not because of me.

 

[Bendito]

Thank you for your promise, but that is not for me...

Way back when from the time I started on Christian Internet forums, some 20 years ago I have argued these things for naught. What I learn was to stop arguing as God gives the increase and He has increased me much from prior to that and since then. There are some things more important than how we see or do not see the Trinity of God or the lack thereof. On that point I prayed and I studied and I listened to all of the arguments. I have a solution for me but the last time I started to share it here on this I was accused of not even being a follower of Christ, or perhaps worse... even though all of my points were according to scripture. I won't present it and lose any place here as likely no one would be edified by my expulsion. The most important thing is charity or love. Without that all of the knowledge... even of the scriptures or the nature of God would make me nothing. I am more than that because of Him, not because of me.

As you wish dear friend. If you ever decide to, I would love it if you would PM your findings to me? You know that I'll not pass any judgment.

 

[amadeus2]

As you wish dear friend. If you ever decide to, I would love it if you would PM your findings to me? You know that I'll not pass any judgment.

Each morning when I talk to the Lord, I reduce myself to zero as per Luke 14:9 [taking the lowest room] and then I leave it God's hands to elevate me if He is so inclined.