Should Believers Have a Consciousness of Sin?

[Bendito]

James 4 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

4 What is causing all the quarrels and fights among you? Isn’t it your desires battling inside you? 2 You desire things and don’t have them. You kill, and you are jealous, and you still can’t get them. So you fight and quarrel. The reason you don’t have is that you don’t pray! 3 Or you pray and don’t receive, because you pray with the wrong motive, that of wanting to indulge your own desires.

4 You unfaithful wives! Don’t you know that loving the world is hating God? Whoever chooses to be the world’s friend makes himself God’s enemy! 5 Or do you suppose the Scripture speaks in vain when it says that there is a spirit in us which longs to envy? 6 But the grace he gives is greater, which is why it says,

“God opposes the arrogant,
but to the humble he gives grace.”[a]

7 Therefore, submit to God. Moreover, take a stand against the Adversary, and he will flee from you. 8 Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Clean your hands, sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded people! 9 Wail, mourn, sob! Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into gloom! 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

11 Brothers, stop speaking against each other! Whoever speaks against a brother or judges a brother is speaking against Torah and judging Torah. And if you judge Torah, you are not a doer of what Torah says, but a judge. 12 There is but one Giver of Torah; he is also the Judge, with the power to deliver and to destroy. Who do you think you are, judging your fellow human being?

13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such-and-such a city, stay there a year trading and make a profit”! 14 You don’t even know if you will be alive tomorrow! For all you are is a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If Adonai wants it to happen, we will live” to do this or that. 16 But as it is, in your arrogance you boast. All such boasting is evil. 17 So then, anyone who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it is committing a sin.

Christians disobey God all the time, and that is sin.



Romans 14:22-23 King James Version (KJV)

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


Christians do not naturally walk in faith...they have to learn it and discipline themselves to do it.

If a Christian says he/she does not sin they are a liar, and the truth is NOT in them.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,
Do you know the difference between being declared Righteous and Unrighteous by the law as oppose to being declared Righteous and Unrighteous by Jesus Christ?

If you don't understand this you should study the subject. The answer informs you to this fact of truth.

A man sins and is declared unrighteous because the law imputes sin to a man, or a man sins and is declared unrighteous because Jesus imputes sin to a man. It is not both. You are either justified by Jesus Christ, or you are justified by the law. Which are you?

 

[Dovegiven]

Righteousness is based on what Jesus did, not what we do with our body. HIS body carried our unrighteousness.

Righteousness is declared (imputed) upon believers based on what believers believe, not by works of the flesh.

Believers have been set free from demands of the Law, which established sins Israel was required to shun upon imposition of penalties. Whatever laws could extend to gentiles in Israel were extended, though the gentiles had the Noahic Covenant to live by, and showing the concept of law among themselves. There was no grace, in the Mosaic Covenant, no mercy, only obey or pay. IF all the Law were to be perfectly accomplished, then that man would escape punishment, though not obtain true promise other than blessings in this life of the flesh above the grave.

The baseline of God’s grace is exactly GRACE, which is greater than mercy, far more-so than our own self-righteousness by even wonderfully good works. Grace stands active and available to anyone calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus, remaining in a believer as long as they believe. Nowhere is grace declared upon condition of abandonment of all sin, else grace be won by works. The expectation is that the believer is empowered to do that as he/she is immersed in the Spirit leadership that equips believers to overcome sin while in this flesh body.

Can we all agree on this baseline? If so I’ll venture into the issue of sin in a believer in the other thread "Metaphorical....", unless someone else take it up. I have to get back to work. Meanwhile, I perceive an alarm among most of us, and that is the potential confusion of less knowledgeable seekers of the Lord. A subject like this should be built upon gradually establishing a firm foundation. 2 Timothy 2:11-15 (KJV)
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Mark 13:13 (KJV)
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 10:9 (KJV)
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21 (KJV)
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 5:9 (KJV)
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10 (KJV)
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 10:13 (KJV)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:15 (KJV)
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Peter 4:18 (KJV)
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[Bendito]

Colossians 2:10-12 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

10 And it is in union with him that you have been made full — he is the head of every rule and authority.

11 Also it was in union with him that you were circumcised with a circumcision not done by human hands, but accomplished by stripping away the old nature’s control over the body. In this circumcision done by the Messiah, 12 you were buried along with him by being immersed; and in union with him, you were also raised up along with him by God’s faithfulness that worked when he raised Yeshua from the dead.

This is a wonderful verse isn't it? He stripped away our old natures control over us... Does it say He stripped away our old nature? No. Only the control it had over us. How did He do that? When we followed Him onto the cross, the grave and rising again, we died as He did and then rising, we were born again, new creations. dead to sin, no longer under the control of sin. The old sinful nature died and we are born again a new nature. The project the remains to us is to forget the old way of thinking, and learn to think on the basis of our new righteousness nature. He removed the control of the old nature over us, thereby giving us a choice of how we will think, act, react etc. I can choose Gods way or 'my' way.
What I see happening here, and YOU decide if it's true for you, is this...
1 People misread the Word.
2 People then tend to "interpret" the Word when it does not need interpreting.
3 Then again, they tend to take it out of context. Believing a lie.
A text without a context is a pretext, a lie.

 

[Dovegiven]

Onward to the title of this thread. Any believer oblivious to what "sin" is is in danger of remaining a sinner, eventually denying Christ. All believers are to seek to live by the Spirit of Christ, to walk by His righteousness, while being aware of what an action amounts to, be it a sin or a holy thing.

Several years ago our church had revival, resulting in about 15 people confessing Jesus and being baptized in water, and many more "redidications" among members. I was asked to start a new Sunday School class to deal with new converts, so I prepared 20 packets to present the basics of Christianity. I was given a room with 30 chairs. The first class was 80. We had to move to the auditorium. Rather than sticking to a program, a question-answer theme prevailed. Even "old time" saints wanted to know exactly what repenting of sin was really about. The class grew in size enough to split it by age groups, singles, married, and now adding new categories. But still is that question about what about sin.

One young woman sent me back to the books with "Can you provide me a total list of sins so I can check them off? I don't want to ever sin against God."
Well, the only list I had on hand was the Mosaic law, and commandments throughout the New Testament that pretty much conclude the list with "everything else", even knowing to do a right thing but not doing it. How do we know it's right? How do I know a drug addict isn't really posing as homeless, begging alms at every major intersection. Or am I being lazy? Wait, you say being lazy is sin? Once a person is saved, on that day must exhibit freedom from addition to meth? A ten year old tries a drug just once and is addicted, but calls upon Jesus at 30 in a revival. His mind is damaged according to medical science. Can he be saved while not able to change his mind about the drug? Where is grace, even mercy if your answer is no?

The perplexity of defining sin erupts in the New Testament, with apostles explaining to Jews, not so much gentiles, what to do about the Mosaic law. How are gentiles supposed to even dream of keeping it when they are not allowed into holy grounds among Jews? So God leaves them stuck without hope of avoiding sin? No. God knew they (and us) could not obey to take their tithes to Jerusalem, sending their oldest son once a year, etc. The law allowed the Jews to kill gentiles stepping foot there. Can a Jew become a Christian and be free from being cursed from stepping on the carcass of a dead mouse, required to be cleansed before worshiping? In Christ, yes, but not among the former worshippers without mortal danger.

Jesus introduced an entirely new covenant and exposed the basic elements of sin that called for God to establish the Law to instruct men concerning a righteousness they could not achieve without walking by the Spirit of God. Only Christ in us is our hope of walking in righteousness, pleasing God.

I realized quickly I must not pronounce a sentence on anyone professing to be saved, but still smoking cigarettes, as "Sorry, but your grace expired last week when you failed to finally stop it. Well, yeah, you conquered a lot, but that one sin persisted too long. You are OUT." Rubbish. Where does it condemn inhaling smoke, while inscense inhalation was allowed by priests? Smokers didn't know the things were killing them until the Surgeon General basically killed the Marlboro Man. The practice was fashionable a long time, movie stars brandishing them. But now believers face the "we are the temple of the Spirit" maxim. That honestly extends to eating until morbidly obese with no excuse like "mental illness". Holding down a job that doesn't allow assigned day worship at church or going on mission fields abroad is a sin in some circles. Where does it stop? How is anyone to know the full breadth, height, and depth of what is sin? Who can possibly know it all from the first day of being born again? People are universally trained to be in "sin consciousness", dreading judgment, spawning many religions seeking to appease the gods or inner conscience. I was taught as a child never to sleep with hand outside the mattress, lest the Devil drag me into Hell. I know better now at age 73, but still wake up whenever I do that. It was never God's plan. But generations of ignorance have "wired" all to be of a "sin consciousness" with no power over it, which takes time as a Christian, studying, experiencing, praying about to escepe it into true peace with God in our minds, at last experiencing a truly clean conscience. We owe our conscience that repreive, as soon as possible. Meanwhile it is useful to us even when condemning us when we deserve that. Our conscience should drive us to spend more time in the Word, more time praying, more time outside the house at least giving neighbors a smile, seizing every opportunity to witness Christ. That part of our mind is about as hard to tame as our memory. I look at that like restoring my computer's efficiency by deleting unnecessary files, defagging, clearing cookies, removing obsolete apps, in essence cleaning out the attic, the basement, the storage building, the prized collections, getting rid of stuff bogging me down.

Our salvation simply can't be based on never sinning again, partly because the list of sins has grown such that none can know it. Jesus took it all on himself, and left it off in Hell for us. He has declared a "FINISH" to that captivity to uncertainty and fear. What each of us has learned is sin is certainly to be abandoned, but not forgotten, as we replace that knowledge with righteous thinking. Only God can forget what was held against us.

Our part? Seek to live according to the voice of the Holy Spirit in us. Believe Him, believe the holy Word of God, and speak it out daily into your ears and those around you, and down into each our spiritman, enabling a walk in the Spirit. It doesn't come like instant pudding, but requires diligence, constant maintenance to excel. Feed that born again spirit person in you, renewing the mind that was corrupted without Christ. Be an expert on the Word of God.

 

[Bendito]

Onward to the title of this thread. Any believer oblivious to what "sin" is is in danger of remaining a sinner, eventually denying Christ. All believers are to seek to live by the Spirit of Christ, to walk by His righteousness, while being aware of what an action amounts to, be it a sin or a holy thing.

Several years ago our church had revival, resulting in about 15 people confessing Jesus and being baptized in water, and many more "redidications" among members. I was asked to start a new Sunday School class to deal with new converts, so I prepared 20 packets to present the basics of Christianity. I was given a room with 30 chairs. The first class was 80. We had to move to the auditorium. Rather than sticking to a program, a question-answer theme prevailed. Even "old time" saints wanted to know exactly what repenting of sin was really about. The class grew in size enough to split it by age groups, singles, married, and now adding new categories. But still is that question about what about sin.

One young woman sent me back to the books with "Can you provide me a total list of sins so I can check them off? I don't want to ever sin against God."
Well, the only list I had on hand was the Mosaic law, and commandments throughout the New Testament that pretty much conclude the list with "everything else", even knowing to do a right thing but not doing it. How do we know it's right? How do I know a drug addict isn't really posing as homeless, begging alms at every major intersection. Or am I being lazy? Wait, you say being lazy is sin? Once a person is saved, on that day must exhibit freedom from addition to meth? A ten year old tries a drug just once and is addicted, but calls upon Jesus at 30 in a revival. His mind is damaged according to medical science. Can he be saved while not able to change his mind about the drug? Where is grace, even mercy if your answer is no?

The perplexity of defining sin erupts in the New Testament, with apostles explaining to Jews, not so much gentiles, what to do about the Mosaic law. How are gentiles supposed to even dream of keeping it when they are not allowed into holy grounds among Jews? So God leaves them stuck without hope of avoiding sin? No. God knew they (and us) could not obey to take their tithes to Jerusalem, sending their oldest son once a year, etc. The law allowed the Jews to kill gentiles stepping foot there. Can a Jew become a Christian and be free from being cursed from stepping on the carcass of a dead mouse, required to be cleansed before worshiping? In Christ, yes, but not among the former worshippers without mortal danger.

Jesus introduced an entirely new covenant and exposed the basic elements of sin that called for God to establish the Law to instruct men concerning a righteousness they could not achieve without walking by the Spirit of God. Only Christ in us is our hope of walking in righteousness, pleasing God.

I realized quickly I must not pronounce a sentence on anyone professing to be saved, but still smoking cigarettes, as "Sorry, but your grace expired last week when you failed to finally stop it. Well, yeah, you conquered a lot, but that one sin persisted too long. You are OUT." Rubbish. Where does it condemn inhaling smoke, while inscense inhalation was allowed by priests? Smokers didn't know the things were killing them until the Surgeon General basically killed the Marlboro Man. The practice was fashionable a long time, movie stars brandishing them. But now believers face the "we are the temple of the Spirit" maxim. That honestly extends to eating until morbidly obese with no excuse like "mental illness". Holding down a job that doesn't allow assigned day worship at church or going on mission fields abroad is a sin in some circles. Where does it stop? How is anyone to know the full breadth, height, and depth of what is sin? Who can possibly know it all from the first day of being born again? People are universally trained to be in "sin consciousness", dreading judgment, spawning many religions seeking to appease the gods or inner conscience. I was taught as a child never to sleep with hand outside the mattress, lest the Devil drag me into Hell. I know better now at age 73, but still wake up whenever I do that. It was never God's plan. But generations of ignorance have "wired" all to be of a "sin consciousness" with no power over it, which takes time as a Christian, studying, experiencing, praying about to escepe it into true peace with God in our minds, at last experiencing a truly clean conscience. We owe our conscience that repreive, as soon as possible. Meanwhile it is useful to us even when condemning us when we deserve that. Our conscience should drive us to spend more time in the Word, more time praying, more time outside the house at least giving neighbors a smile, seizing every opportunity to witness Christ. That part of our mind is about as hard to tame as our memory. I look at that like restoring my computer's efficiency by deleting unnecessary files, defagging, clearing cookies, removing obsolete apps, in essence cleaning out the attic, the basement, the storage building, the prized collections, getting rid of stuff bogging me down.

Our salvation simply can't be based on never sinning again, partly because the list of sins has grown such that none can know it. Jesus took it all on himself, and left it off in Hell for us. He has declared a "FINISH" to that captivity to uncertainty and fear. What each of us has learned is sin is certainly to be abandoned, but not forgotten, as we replace that knowledge with righteous thinking. Only God can forget what was held against us.

Our part? Seek to live according to the voice of the Holy Spirit in us. Believe Him, believe the holy Word of God, and speak it out daily into your ears and those around you, and down into each our spiritman, enabling a walk in the Spirit. It doesn't come like instant pudding, but requires diligence, constant maintenance to excel. Feed that born again spirit person in you, renewing the mind that was corrupted without Christ. Be an expert on the Word of God.

There was a man I listened to one time many years ago. He said there are more do's in the Bible than there are don'ts. If you concentrate on doing the do's, you won't have time to do the don'ts. So why worry about them? It makes sense. Don't you think?

 

[Dovegiven]

So yes, believers have a mind, with a memory caculty, with a conscience, all groomed for potential carnality depending on one's environment growing up very aware of sin whether still present or conquered. But that person, upon meeting Jesus, acquires a Christ-righteousness conscience that adds to whatever righteousness one is taught as a child. Most of us learned some good behavior models, but that was no guarantee we would live by all of them as adults. Even growing up knowing much of the Bible, having a parent who is a pastor, the end result can be disaster without being filled with the Spirit, empowering what was once parental law. In Christ that all comes alive in us, powerfully enough to bleach out the stinkin' thinkin' parts we learned on the playground at school.

Believers, keep on discarding the sin consciousness, that persistent gnawing at us to keep bad habits, replacing that with the mind of Christ gained from the Bible, preaching, teaching, and the directly from the Holy Spirit in us. Perhaps the strongest source of that bad thinking is from closest of friends, peers in college, in the workplace, an unequally yoked spouse, far more powerful than videos, the internet, books, etc. Go on the offensive for Christ, rather than try to exist in a defensive mode. He has spiritual armor for you to operate with.

 

[Dovegiven]

There was a man I listened to one time many years ago. He said there are more do's in the Bible than there are don'ts. If you concentrate on doing the do's, you won't have time to do the don'ts. So why worry about them? It makes sense. Don't you think?

I agree. I've been distracted from work all day thinking about this topic, definitely no time for don'ts. I did get away to Walmart to pick up a few things, usually never less than $100 for 4 little bags, but that was cancelled out by expressions on faces when saying to them "Merry Christmas" with a big smile. I am finding more these days the do's are mostly desires of the Holy Spirit. He has targets picked out. All I have to do is break out from the usual.

BTW, why can't I LIKE your post 84?

 

[Bendito]

I agree. I've been distracted from work all day thinking about this topic, definitely no time for don'ts. I did get away to Walmart to pick up a few things, usually never less than $100 for 4 little bags, but that was cancelled out by expressions on faces when saying to them "Merry Christmas" with a big smile. I am finding more these days the do's are mostly desires of the Holy Spirit. He has targets picked out. All I have to do is break out from the usual.

BTW, why can't I LIKE your post 84?

Actually, you did like post #84 It must have winked at you when you clicked 'like'. LOL

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

Righteousness is based on what Jesus did, not what we do with our body. HIS body carried our unrighteousness.
Righteousness is declared (imputed) upon believers based on what believers believe, not by works of the flesh.
Believers have been set free from demands of the Law, which established sins Israel was required to shun upon imposition of penalties.
Grace stands active and available to anyone calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus, remaining in a believer as long as they believe. Nowhere is grace declared upon condition of abandonment of all sin, else grace be won by works.

Yes - Righteousness is declared or imputed to believers by what Jesus Christ has done; only if the person is justified by faith in Christ. We must remember Christ is not imputing sin. Once in Christ, “you are not under the law.” The problem Dovegiven is - you are attributing your unrighteousness (which is sin) to the law; which puts you under the law because you say you sin. Sin is the transgression of the law (1Joh.3:4). It is only by the law that there is the knowledge of sin. If you sin you are under the law.

Gal 3:23, 24,25 But before faith (Jesus) came, we were kept “under” the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the “law” was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we “might be justified by faith.” But “after” that faith (Jesus) is come, “we are no longer under a schoolmaster (law).”

This means you are not justified by the law - and the law cannot tell you that you’ve sinned. And we know Christ is not imputing sin unto believers (2Cor. 5:19; Rom. 4:8). The law can only tell you that you’ve sinned if you are “under” the law.

Rom 3:19 Now “we know” that what things soever the “law says,” it says “to them” who are “under the law:” that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become “guilty” before God.

Your thought is believers are under/justified by faith in Jesus Christ, but they sin - making them guilty before God for their lack of faith. Your posts are saying you are alive and under/justified by Jesus Christ as well as being alive to sin through justification of the law. Sin is the transgressing of the law, and Righteousness is a free Gift through Grace by faith. Jesus Christ is Grace. The law was given by Moses, but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (Joh. 1:17). These are two different covenants and you cannot be alive to both. Sin is one aspect of the works of the law; and every man will give account of his works to Christ. Christ will not judge sin because sin has already been judged.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man “is not justified” by the “works of the law,” but “by” the “faith of Jesus Christ,” even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall “no flesh be justified in his sight:” for “by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

 

[Bendito]

@Dovegiven,



Yes - Righteousness is declared or imputed to believers by what Jesus Christ has done; only if the person is justified by faith in Christ. We must remember Christ is not imputing sin. Once in Christ, “you are not under the law.” The problem Dovegiven is - you are attributing your unrighteousness (which is sin) to the law; which puts you under the law because you say you sin. Sin is the transgression of the law (1Joh.3:4). It is only by the law that there is the knowledge of sin. If you sin you are under the law.

Gal 3:23, 24,25 But before faith (Jesus) came, we were kept “under” the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the “law” was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we “might be justified by faith.” But “after” that faith (Jesus) is come, “we are no longer under a schoolmaster (law).”

This means you are not justified by the law - and the law cannot tell you that you’ve sinned. And we know Christ is not imputing sin unto believers (2Cor. 5:19; Rom. 4:8). The law can only tell you that you’ve sinned if you are “under” the law.

Rom 3:19 Now “we know” that what things soever the “law says,” it says “to them” who are “under the law:” that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become “guilty” before God.

Your thought by what you say is believers are under/justified by faith in Jesus Christ because they sin - making them guilty before God for their lack of faith. Your posts are saying you are alive and under/justified by Jesus Christ as well as being alive to sin through justification of the law. Sin is the transgressing of the law, and Righteousness is a free Gift through Grace by faith. Jesus Christ is Grace. The law was given by Moses, but Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (Joh. 1:17). These are two different covenants and you cannot be alive to both. Sin is one aspect of the works of the law; and every man will give account of his works to Christ.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man “is not justified” by the “works of the law,” but “by” the “faith of Jesus Christ,” even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall “no flesh be justified in his sight:” for “by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

regibassman57
The word "justified" by faith means to be declared righteous. The Word says that Jesus became sin so we could be the righteousness of God. So, you're right. If God justifies you then He'll declare you righteous.
Sin is simple disobedience to Gods Word. If you disobey, then you sin. Why can you not get that?
If Christians do not sin why does Paul say...
Romans 6:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


Shall we live longer in sin? What? You said we do not sin!

If Christians do not sin why does Paul tell us not to?


Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Why would Paul say
Romans 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Gee! Paul was a Christian!! But he wrestled with SIN!!
He had to wrestle to put down the sin nature too.
Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The anointed One and His anointing can be in us but sin can be there too!!
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

There are many other verses that make your doctine a lie. So who am I to believe? You or the Word? Who?

 

[regibassman57]

regibassman57

The word "justified" by faith means to be declared righteous. The Word says that Jesus became sin so we could be the righteousness of God. So, you're right. If God justifies you then He'll declare you righteous.
Sin is simple disobedience to Gods Word. If you disobey, then you sin. Why can you not get that?
If Christians do not sin why does Paul say...

You ask the same question over and over again, and I’ve explained it to you. You haven’t taken the time to study what “unfruitful works” are - neither “dead works” from scripture. You choose to stay without knowledge.

If we are dead to sin, we are dead to the nature of sin and the world by faith. This is why Paul asks, how can you sin or live in something you are dead to (Rom. 6:1, 2). If we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, we are dead to sin and the world. Believers are not of the world though we are in the world. How can you sin if you are not of the world where sin is condemned? The only way is if you are not in Christ or you don't understand what His word says. It's not sin, but unfruitful works or dead works.

Joh 17:16 They (believers) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

The just shall live by faith. Jesus was in the world but not of it. Jesus' disciple were in the world physically but not of it through faith. Also, if we are dead "AND" risen with Christ how can you sin. If Christ had not risen you are still in your sins. But you have risen with Christ. So... if you are risen with Christ, you have no sins. If you "have not" risen with Christ, you are still in your sins.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; yoiu are still in your sins.

Col 3:1 If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Your verses Romans 6:12,13 and 7:20, 25 is talking about Satan and sin used is a noun and not a verb. I told you before the example is Genesis 4:7 when God was talking with Cain.

The verse you used in Romans 8:10 is talking about the body is dead because of sin. The body has reaped what Adam sowed in it. The body is dead in God’s eyes because in the flesh the body is dead. This is because everything in the flesh is dead.

You said: There are many other verses that make your doctine a lie. So who am I to believe? You or the Word? Who?

“YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND” why you say - you are justified by the law - because you sin - and then contradict yourself by saying you are justified by faith in Jesus Christ. You are saying God is imputing sin to you and God is imputing Righteousness to you. If sin was imputed, only God can impute it. The Spirit of God said:

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, “reconciling the world unto himself,” “not imputing their trespasses (sins) unto them;” and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Before Christ came sin separated man from God. Jesus took sin away and God is "not" imputing sin unto believers and has condemned unbelievers. If you sin you cannot be reconciled unto God because sin is enmity with God. If you sin, then sin has not been condemned in God’s mind according to your doctrine. But God said He is not remembering our sins because He has judged and condemned them?

 

[Bendito]

You ask the same question over and over again, and I’ve explained it to you. You haven’t taken the time to study what “unfruitful works” are - neither “dead works” from scripture. You choose to stay without knowledge.

If we are dead to sin, we are dead to the nature of sin and the world by faith. This is why Paul asks, how can you sin or live in something you are dead to (Rom. 6:1, 2). If we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, we are dead to sin and the world. Believers are not of the world though we are in the world. How can you sin if you are not of the world where sin is condemned? The only way is if you are not in Christ or you don't understand what His word says. It's not sin, but unfruitful works or dead works.

Joh 17:16 They (believers) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

The just shall live by faith. Jesus was in the world but not of it. Jesus' disciple were in the world physically but not of it through faith. Also, if we are dead "AND" risen with Christ how can you sin. If Christ had not risen you are still in your sins. But you have risen with Christ. So... if you are risen with Christ, you have no sins. If you "have not" risen with Christ, you are still in your sins.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; yoiu are still in your sins.

Col 3:1 If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Your verses Romans 6:12,13 and 7:20, 25 is talking about Satan and sin used is a noun and not a verb. I told you before the example is Genesis 4:7 when God was talking with Cain.

The verse you used in Romans 8:10 is talking about the body is dead because of sin. The body has reaped what Adam sowed in it. The body is dead in God’s eyes because in the flesh the body is dead. This is because everything in the flesh is dead.

You said: There are many other verses that make your doctine a lie. So who am I to believe? You or the Word? Who?

“YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND” why you say - you are justified by the law - because you sin - and then contradict yourself by saying you are justified by faith in Jesus Christ. You are saying God is imputing sin to you and God is imputing Righteousness to you. If sin was imputed, only God can impute it. The Spirit of God said:

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, “reconciling the world unto himself,” “not imputing their trespasses (sins) unto them;” and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Before Christ came sin separated man from God. Jesus took sin away and God is "not" imputing sin unto believers and has condemned unbelievers. If you sin you cannot be reconciled unto God because sin is enmity with God. If you sin, then sin has not been condemned in God’s mind according to your doctrine. But God said He is not remembering our sins because He has judged and condemned them?

I'm writing in English...What language do you use? I ask the same question over and over?
I give you scriptures that prove you're ranting contrary to the Word and you simply throw it back at me. Take a deep breath and answer the questions.

 

[regibassman57]

I'm writing in English...What language do you use? I ask the same question over and over?
I give you scriptures that prove you're ranting contrary to the Word and you simply throw it back at me. Take a deep breath and answer the questions.

Yea Right...

 

[regibassman57]

I give you scriptures that prove you're ranting contrary to the Word and you simply throw it back at me. Take a deep breath and answer the questions.

What does this scripture mean?

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[Bendito]

What does this scripture mean?

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

All of the verses you share talk about Jesus taking care of the consequences of sin....He did that but we still have to learn to stay away from sinning and to put on the nature of God.

My friend, you are stubbornly hanging on to a partial teaching which makes it a false teaching. Stubbornness is the same as the sin of witchcraft. Did you know that?

 

[regibassman57]

All of the verses you share talk about Jesus taking care of the consequences of sin....He did that but we still have to learn to stay away from sinning and to put on the nature of God.

My friend, you are stubbornly hanging on to a partial teaching which makes it a false teaching. Stubbornness is the same as the sin of witchcraft. Did you know that?

I can practice all day long. You are wrong again. I talk about "sin" and "death" being taken away.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It appears you believe that Jesus took away the consequences of sin, but you don’t believe He took away sin as scriptures teach. What you don’t understand is for every sin committed - there was a debt owed. If a man committed one sin, then it amounted to one debt owed.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Because Jesus paid the complete sin debt for the world, every sin had a debt attached to it. This means if you believe Jesus paid the debt for the sin of the world, then you believe He would have had to take upon Himself the sin for every debt owed. If Jesus didn’t take the sins upon Himself for the debt paid – then Jesus died in vain and paid for something He didn’t take upon Himself. If Jesus paid the debt for sin, then He paid the past, present and future sin debt. This is what you don’t understand.

 

[Bendito]

I can practice all day long. You are wrong again. I talk about "sin" and "death" being taken away.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It appears you believe that Jesus took away the consequences of sin, but you don’t believe He took away sin as scriptures teach. What you don’t understand is for every sin committed - there was a debt owed. If a man committed one sin, then it amounted to one debt owed.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Because Jesus paid the complete sin debt for the world, every sin had a debt attached to it. This means if you believe Jesus paid the debt for the sin of the world, then you believe He would have had to take upon Himself the sin for every debt owed. If Jesus didn’t take the sins upon Himself for the debt paid – then Jesus died in vain and paid for something He didn’t take upon Himself. If Jesus paid the debt for sin, then He paid the past, present and future sin debt. This is what you don’t understand.

Oh How do you answer a person who is steeped in deception?
Jesus became sin which was nailed to the cross, He dies to make you the righteousness of God in Him...The wages of sin is death, He died for YOUR sins,not his....But he did not take sin out of the world, else why would He warn you to stay away from it? You're in deception here my friend. Get away from it.

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

Oh How do you answer a person who is steeped in deception?
Jesus became sin which was nailed to the cross, He dies to make you the righteousness of God in Him...The wages of sin is death, He died for YOUR sins,not his....But he did not take sin out of the world, else why would He warn you to stay away from it? You're in deception here my friend. Get away from it.

You said God did not take sin out of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

G142 (take away)
airō
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

If Jesus became sin, which we know He did - that means He took “ALL” man’s sins upon Himself; past, present and future. Sin has been condemned, that’s why God is not imputing sin unto believers.

God imputed sin unto Adam. God did not impute sin unto Abraham. God imputed sin unto Israel. Who else does God impute sin unto? God is not imputing sin unto believer. But you say you sin.

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito,



You said God did not take sin out of the world.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

G142 (take away)
airō
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

If Jesus became sin, which we know He did - that means He took “ALL” man’s sins upon Himself; past, present and future. Sin has been condemned, that’s why God is not imputing sin unto believers.

God imputed sin unto Adam. God did not impute sin unto Abraham. God imputed sin unto Israel. Who else does God impute sin unto? God is not imputing sin unto believer. But you say you sin.

Yup....Do the entire study