John 1:1 Explanation revision
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For now, let us just focus on John 1:1. Truth resides in the grammatical structure of the text. That is where revelation is found. We can address each of the other texts later. There are only three possibilities this verse could be saying but only one possibility is supported by the Greek syntax. It could mean:
a. That the Word was a LESSER god than the Father who is the τον θεον (the God) in the previous clause.
b. That the Word was the father.
c. That the Word was fully God, but was NOT the Father.
The answer is provided by the absence of the Greek definite article in the second clause of the verse. If you are not afraid of a critical analysis I will be happy to explain. If anyone else is interested I will explain for them as well.
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David was Christ. Does that mean if I don't acknowledge the deity of David that I am denying deity of The Father?
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Also this scripture combination you used goes with my stance.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
The Son is of God or Son of God. Not God but Son of God. Also God is specifically God The Father.
you can glean that from those two verses alone.
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Since The Son of God predates Man you cannot use the Son of Man aspect "or him coming in the flesh" to justify him being God
No Man has seen God at any time yes however he predates Man. He is the only begotten of the Father and is the life and light of Man.
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As I have mentioned here John 1:1 Explanation many used the fact that the Son of God came in the flesh of Men to Justify him being God in the beginning which is fallacy. However still continues to be propagated. Must be a theological statement somewhere out there.
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Deep within Joh 1:14 you notice (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
David was Christ. Does that mean if I don't acknowledge the deity of David that I am denying deity of The Father?
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Also this scripture combination you used goes with my stance.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
The Son is of God or Son of God. Not God but Son of God. Also God is specifically God The Father.
you can glean that from those two verses alone.
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Since The Son of God predates Man you cannot use the Son of Man aspect "or him coming in the flesh" to justify him being God
No Man has seen God at any time yes however he predates Man. He is the only begotten of the Father and is the life and light of Man.
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As I have mentioned here John 1:1 Explanation many used the fact that the Son of God came in the flesh of Men to Justify him being God in the beginning which is fallacy. However still continues to be propagated. Must be a theological statement somewhere out there.
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Deep within Joh 1:14 you notice (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Bendito
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This is getting really weird! and it contradicts the Word big time.
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Before The Ancient of Days all Creation including the beginning of Creation is nothing.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
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Three That Bear Witness but One True God
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1Jn 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
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Three That Bear Witness but One True God
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1Jn 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
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David was not the Christ; BUT I understand that the Voice Bible version has reduced the deity that is what Christ mean to only meaning "the anointed one" and have switched out Christ with the Anointed One.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. KJV
1 John 2:22 The liar is the one who says, “Jesus is not really the Anointed One.” This is the antiChrist, the one denying both the Father and the Son. 23 Anyone who denies the Son does not know the Father. The one affirming the Son enjoys an intimate relationship with the Father as well. The Voice Bible Version
The KJV clearly aligns Christ as referring to deity because to deny Jesus being the Christ is to deny the deity of Jesus and thereby denying the deity of the Father at the same time.
David cannot be the Christ for that would make him the antichrist.
David was anointed by God but he was not the Christ.
This is what happens when believers lose themselves into their intellectual research and errant Bible version that they ignore the plainness of scripture that does testify to teh deity of the Son of God being One with the Father.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
That is what is meant to be the Son of the living God for why He was crucified for.
Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
May I suggest that you set aside your belief as taught to you at the moment and consider all the scripture in order to discern wrongful application of scripture out of context that makes up false teachings that you may be in if you love the truth?
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Yup...This proves that if one denies the deity of Jesus who IS the Anointed One has his theology screwed up big time. Jesus IS God. Get used to it.
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Jesus is the Anointed One and God but David was only the anointed but not God. I believe the Voice Bible Version may be responsible for Ivar's misperception; but I do not know for sure.
In another forum, some believers was defending the Voice Bible version by saying we are christs too because we are anointed. They were "mad: more against relying on the KJV only rather than thinking about what they are saying as running against this warning in scripture.
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
With all them modern day "tongue speakers" out there, if one of them should come across the Voice Bible version, they may take that extra phenomenon as evidence that he or she is the christ because they were especially annointed from the rest of the believers that had only one drink of the One Spirit at the calling of the gospel of Jesus Christ when they had first believed. They just may get more bold to say something like that with the Voice Bible version. God only knows, and even though things are bad enough as it is, it can get worse, I suppose.
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nope .
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First let's start with who asked who first and what was asked
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
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Then
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
= Me good? none is good, save one / "except one" that is, God.
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Who is that one ? God The one he declared.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
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The ruler discerned that Christ is his Lord or head. Christ glorified The Lord God who is One Lord and The Only True God; His head, his God and our God.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
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Essentially This ruler had a level of discernment and Christ spoke plainly to him. This also recorded in Matthew and Mark so we have three accounts total.
Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
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Now unto John 8:58-59
Those Jews did not identify with Christ as there Master to begin with. A major factor is that Christ was raised in Nazareth which some may make equivalent to the section 8 or low income residents of Galilee . There wasn't any nobility about him, etc, and so on.
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Also we see Christ was not speaking to them clearly therefore
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
We know that Before Abraham I am however we also know that before the beginning of creation came forth from the Father and even later on came forth into the flesh of Adam 4,000 years later I AM THAT I AM. Because the Angel of The Lord or Christ declared him from the beginning to Moses.
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
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You’re mistaken. David would not have been King if God had anointed him. Who told Samuel to pour the oil over David? God did. God anointed David as king.
1 Samuel 16:13
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.
No man comes into a position of authority without God anoints him to do so.
Romans 13:1-2 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Daniel 2:21
"It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.
Romans 13:1
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Proverbs 8:15
By me kings reign…
Romans 13:6
For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
And there are more verses You dig them out.
You said. “In another forum, some believers was defending the Voice Bible version by saying we are christs too because we are anointed.”
I understand why they say that….Christ means “The anointed one and his anointed.” We are anointed with the same anointing that Jesus is anointed with. So, in that sense we are christs. No biggie. The word “anointed” also means ‘consecrated’ as in one set aside for a purpose’ In David’s case the purpose was to be king.
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;
Jesus anointed the disciples to go out and preach
Mark 6:7
And He summoned the twelve and began to send them out in pairs, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits; Anointing them.
Matthew 10:16
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
John 20:21
So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent (anointed) Me, I also send (anoint) you."
John 17:18
"As You sent (anointed) Me into the world, I also have sent (anointed) them into the world.
Luke 9:2
And He sent them out (anointed) to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.
Luke 10:1
Now after this the Lord appointed (anointed) seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Acts 9:17
So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me (anointed me) so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Again, there are more verses…dig them out.
You said. “Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
You need to listen more to the Holy Spirit and less to that marvelous brain between your ears. The word Christ also is translated Messiah. For me to say ‘I am messiah’ would be wrong, deceitful and an outright lie, and you want to walk quickly away from me, or anyone else who says that. When these folks say we are ‘chists’ they are simply saying they are anointed for a purpose. Again, no biggie. They are not trying to deceive you.
Frankly, my friend, I don’t see how you could be deceived, any more than you are now. There are waaay to many things in the bible that you refuse to believe..There is no way your theology could be correct since you don’t believe the WORD. Your marvelous intellect, and those empty versions of the bible that you read are keeping you well into the confusion of the dark.
In rereading your last post I noticed you said. "David was anointed but not God..." I think I misunderstood that sentence as you wrote it. If I understand it properly this time, I agree. David was not God.
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What word did you use in reply to my consideration that I can use for your response????? Oh, I remember. Nope
LOL Ivar! No Jew identified with Jesus as the Christ, but in the beginning of Chapter 8 you first saw that He was teaching the people in general who came up to Him, then some Pharisees not already talking with Him showed up to try and trip Him up and even attempted to appeal to His vanity by addressing Him as "Master" (v4) as well as tempt Him (v6).
Now after this these left, all that was left where those He had been speaking to in the Temple, which could have been anyone of a myriad of folks of the Jewish Faith who happened to be there that day, but we do know that some were Pharisees (v13). So, reading into how this group of people saw Jesus, or perceived Him at this moment time is "purely conjecture" on your part, except for knowing the belief of the Pharisees of that day (Believed in the Resurrection of the Body). Otherwise, the people who Jesus was talking to that day could have just as easily included Nazarenes or Galileans, or from any other place in Judea or the known world, Scripture just doesn't say.
So, to use this thought to support your reasoning, for the stoning (I'm assuming this because you really don't say.), only provides you an escape from addressing the very real point of why they were motivated to do so, which was not some Social/Economic bias. Rather the fact the He, Jesus, said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Both Jesus and His audience knew what He was saying by His use of these words. You would disappoint Ivar even greater then those who picked up the stones if you didn't know what He meant. He was telling them that He is a Deity, and so God, which is the only One these people acknowledged as truly existing as being the One True God!
I understand your conundrum with these verses. It leaves that sliver of a possibility that He, Jesus, is truly God incarnate. Understanding that He would have had to make Himself less to manifest Himself as fully Human and still fully God. Where to you this would diminish God, while for me it Magnifies Him!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't forget God IS LOVE! What an Awesome God we Serve!!!! Alleluia! Let all, Glory & Honor & Praise be His!!!
With the Love of Christ Jesus Ivar!
Nick
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I am not sure why you are telling me that God has anointed David when I had stated that. What I said was that David was not God. That is the difference between Christ being the Anointed One from David being anointed to illustrate that the way Christ is used in the scripture means more than the Anointed One, when denying Him as the Christ is the same as denying the Father thus Christ means deity and not just the Anointed One.
Kind of hard to say beware those who say I am the Christ when believers are going about saying they are christs. Makes the warning null and void, so I believe it is a biggie, because it would be hypocritical to say that and yet tell others to beware those who say I am the Christ.
Let's look at John the Baptist. Was he not anointed by the Holy Ghost to be that prophesied voice in the wilderness in preparing the way of the Lord? And yet he has said...
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
So how is that for listening to the Lord Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit in me?
Yes, you misunderstood that sentence and sorry I was not clearer in my post but at least in that we are in agreement that although David was not God, he was anointed by God whereas Christ can never mean just anointed when Christ as it has been used in the verses, has always been associated with deity for why we cannot say we are the christs because Jesus is the only Christ there is.
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Bendito
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Ya As I said Anointed means sent, authorized (given authority), empowered,
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Just as long as you agree that Jesus is the Only Christ for why we are not the christs just as John the Baptists was not the Christ even though John was anointed to be a prophet as we were anointed at our salvation.
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
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First Jesus started with a question. A question to see if the individual had reason or knew who He was. Jesus kinda of liked to work that way. Of course the person did not know him. So............if you realize what He was doing, you can see that He was actually not stating He was not God, but leaving it open to one with understanding who did know Him, a condition reserved for Him and the Father. "None is good, save one, that is God." I realize in order for Jesus to satisfy you as to His Divinity, He would have had to say "None is good, save one, that is God and "I am""! You do realize if He had done during this moment in time.........what do you think would have happened???
@Christ4Ever
Answering above for you more clearly.
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No. First The ruler asked him a question and Christ followed up with a question and an answer.
Wether or not the ruler knew him, The ruler acknowledged him as Master not just Master but Good Master so more than likely this ruler heard a good report of works done by him.
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These verses seem quite clear
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
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None is good save one, that is God. What is certain is that The Son was not talking about himself and was honoring The Father. " Business as Usual"
Also The Son was not lying nor is there any indication of him leaving it open. You yourself are reaching because you want something that John did not bare record of "since this post is about John 1:1 explanation"
The only Divinity I am aware of is of The Father.
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Now I do not need to reach nor am I in any conundrum.
The Son himself said The Father he came out from is The only True God and is his God and our God. We also know that our God is one Lord.
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
However if Man wants to make The Son their God they are not doing that in honour of the Son or the Father but in honour of themselves. Neither are they followers of Christ who is a follower of The Father and has a mind of The Father.
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Lastly since this post was regarding John 1
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
@Christ4Ever
Answering above for you more clearly.
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No. First The ruler asked him a question and Christ followed up with a question and an answer.
Wether or not the ruler knew him, The ruler acknowledged him as Master not just Master but Good Master so more than likely this ruler heard a good report of works done by him.
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These verses seem quite clear
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
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None is good save one, that is God. What is certain is that The Son was not talking about himself and was honoring The Father. " Business as Usual"
Also The Son was not lying nor is there any indication of him leaving it open. You yourself are reaching because you want something that John did not bare record of "since this post is about John 1:1 explanation"
The only Divinity I am aware of is of The Father.
-------------------------------------------------------
Now I do not need to reach nor am I in any conundrum.
The Son himself said The Father he came out from is The only True God and is his God and our God. We also know that our God is one Lord.
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
However if Man wants to make The Son their God they are not doing that in honour of the Son or the Father but in honour of themselves. Neither are they followers of Christ who is a follower of The Father and has a mind of The Father.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly since this post was regarding John 1
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 11,952
Hello @Ivar
Difficult to address I know, but you now cannot say you didn't know! I never heard that Lord!
Consider it all Ivar, or leave it alone for another day, but regardless of what you do being that it too is the Word of God, it will stand and is Eternal.
However, while I will continue to come across this threads on this subject in one fashion or another. I will continue to point to this Scripture until it gets addressed. For though you don't want to admit it. It does relate to the Subject of John 1:1. Who better than Jesus own words to find out who He said He is as you have pointed out in many Scripture verses as well. Which I have considered. So, when you make the below statement and don't address the words by Jesus in the verses provided. What am I to think?
Take the bitter with the sweet.
With the Love of Christ Jesus Ivar.
Nick
<><
Difficult to address I know, but you now cannot say you didn't know! I never heard that Lord!
Consider it all Ivar, or leave it alone for another day, but regardless of what you do being that it too is the Word of God, it will stand and is Eternal.
However, while I will continue to come across this threads on this subject in one fashion or another. I will continue to point to this Scripture until it gets addressed. For though you don't want to admit it. It does relate to the Subject of John 1:1. Who better than Jesus own words to find out who He said He is as you have pointed out in many Scripture verses as well. Which I have considered. So, when you make the below statement and don't address the words by Jesus in the verses provided. What am I to think?
Take the bitter with the sweet.
With the Love of Christ Jesus Ivar.
Nick
<><
Ivar
Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2018
- Messages
- 728
@Christ4Ever
Of course. It will be difficult because it is already in your heart to make it difficult.
So!? Your stronghold and fortress That the Son must be God is John 8:58?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
First and foremost, Abraham is of Adam and with exception of the Sabbath, Adam is last of Creation.
In concerning Creation, Before Adam was I Am or Creation existed; From the Beginning of Creation to the Heavenly Hosts to the Earthly Swine. Before Adam/Abraham I am.
Oh and yes when it comes to the beginning Before Abraham was I Am.
However, also Before the Son of David came in the flesh; Abraham I Am or existed.
What does That have to do with The increase being of The Only True God or The Will of The only True God being done?
However before any Son or adopted Sons
Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
And before anything suspicious is tried Heb 1:1-2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, Let’s get the understanding of The Jews who would throw such stones.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
However Did the Son make himself God?
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Now what did The Lord and Father of our Lord say in the Book of Remembrance
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
-----------------------------
Now The Son said he came out of The Father and that The Father is the only True God. Therefore it is our responsibility to understand and obey “ Shama” that The Father is The Only True God and one Lord. Not one in three lords/persons
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
With these Three verses “Joh 16:27 , Joh 17:3, Mar 12:29 “ being one hammer “notice who speaketh them”, all other verses are nails my friend
because
Heb 11:6 without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Truthfully it may even show insecurity and immaturity on my part to even delve into John 1:1 because those that are more mature besides knowing the hammer, know that
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
And
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Lastly you told me to take the Bitter and The Sweet however that sounds like two opposing diametrics or essentially Hot and Cold which together is Lukewarm. Ideally I would prefer not to be spit out like many would. In any case, In Spirit and In truth which agree in one “non contradictory” is more expedient than bitter and sweet.
------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
@povawiqe proved this when his words were one with John 16:27, John 17:3, and Mark 12:29
-------------------------------------
Also Jesusis4me proved my post John 1:1 Explanation that was shut down “insert the appropriate word here”
In one breath he said “in another post” The Christ is The Son of God before he came flesh.
However, like many since the Son literally being God is essential to them they will use.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So? The Anointed of God “Christ” is God and became the Son of God when he came into the flesh of men. That is why the Word was God because he was made flesh, and the Son of himself or also he came forth from himself because he is God and one in three lords?
Both the Holy Spirit and The Son came in the name of the only True God. So did prophets of old when they administered the word of the Angel of The Lord of The Lord.
If you say The Son is God then there is no mediator between Man and God and you have not overcometh the world
because
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
During The day of The Lord many will be looking for those forgiveness scriptures, those turn the cheek scriptures.
For the sincerely naive/ignorant or those that by nature do the things contained in the law I see mercy but for us that should know better The Lord of our Lord “who is good and created the light and formed the darkness” knows.
---------------------
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You can’t BS a BS-er, meaning I am also a living soul “flesh & spirit” and I know the hearts of men / flesh
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
However we should strive to have
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
who has a mind of The Father not of himself but of The one who sent him and is Good.
The Father, His Only Begotten Son, and His adopted Sons are one.
@JesusIs4Me
Now You.
So me saying that David at one point was The Christ or The Lord's Anointed makes me an Antichrist?
2Sa 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now concerning David’s son who took on the Family business.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or that me denying That the Son of God is a deity, But came out of the only True Deity and is the beginning of Creation makes me an Antichrist?
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christ / Anointed and Deity are not one in the same because one is of the other and came forth from the other
-----------------
@Bendito
Now to you.
Prior to my ip address being flagged and me being unable to access the website “even now”
You said some words that seem abominable “using sin to justify sin and partial witness reports” which I replied with Amo 5:18 “but I did not give any precepts” . Now I got final exams. However, after the fact I intend to use the scriptures to enrich uranium and bend the bow “as respectful as possible” but the bow will be bent nonetheless, Heavenly Father willing. Guard your weakness of correction thoroughly.
Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
----------------------------------
Lastly to everyone else
1. The Father is The Only True God, above all, and Sent his Son.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
2. The Son is the beginning of Creation and came out from God.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
3. The Son took on the flesh and seed of David thru Joseph.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
4. Yes Conceived of Holy Ghost and Seed of David by/thru Mary. No contradictions but a living soul “flesh and spirit” as his brethren.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
-------------------------------------------
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Fortunately it seems I can afford to be bold right now. Difficult to be persecuted online.
Of course. It will be difficult because it is already in your heart to make it difficult.
So!? Your stronghold and fortress That the Son must be God is John 8:58?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
First and foremost, Abraham is of Adam and with exception of the Sabbath, Adam is last of Creation.
In concerning Creation, Before Adam was I Am or Creation existed; From the Beginning of Creation to the Heavenly Hosts to the Earthly Swine. Before Adam/Abraham I am.
Oh and yes when it comes to the beginning Before Abraham was I Am.
However, also Before the Son of David came in the flesh; Abraham I Am or existed.
What does That have to do with The increase being of The Only True God or The Will of The only True God being done?
However before any Son or adopted Sons
Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
And before anything suspicious is tried Heb 1:1-2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, Let’s get the understanding of The Jews who would throw such stones.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
However Did the Son make himself God?
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Now what did The Lord and Father of our Lord say in the Book of Remembrance
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
-----------------------------
Now The Son said he came out of The Father and that The Father is the only True God. Therefore it is our responsibility to understand and obey “ Shama” that The Father is The Only True God and one Lord. Not one in three lords/persons
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
With these Three verses “Joh 16:27 , Joh 17:3, Mar 12:29 “ being one hammer “notice who speaketh them”, all other verses are nails my friend
because
Heb 11:6 without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Truthfully it may even show insecurity and immaturity on my part to even delve into John 1:1 because those that are more mature besides knowing the hammer, know that
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
And
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Lastly you told me to take the Bitter and The Sweet however that sounds like two opposing diametrics or essentially Hot and Cold which together is Lukewarm. Ideally I would prefer not to be spit out like many would. In any case, In Spirit and In truth which agree in one “non contradictory” is more expedient than bitter and sweet.
------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
@povawiqe proved this when his words were one with John 16:27, John 17:3, and Mark 12:29
-------------------------------------
Also Jesusis4me proved my post John 1:1 Explanation that was shut down “insert the appropriate word here”
In one breath he said “in another post” The Christ is The Son of God before he came flesh.
However, like many since the Son literally being God is essential to them they will use.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So? The Anointed of God “Christ” is God and became the Son of God when he came into the flesh of men. That is why the Word was God because he was made flesh, and the Son of himself or also he came forth from himself because he is God and one in three lords?
Both the Holy Spirit and The Son came in the name of the only True God. So did prophets of old when they administered the word of the Angel of The Lord of The Lord.
If you say The Son is God then there is no mediator between Man and God and you have not overcometh the world
because
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
During The day of The Lord many will be looking for those forgiveness scriptures, those turn the cheek scriptures.
For the sincerely naive/ignorant or those that by nature do the things contained in the law I see mercy but for us that should know better The Lord of our Lord “who is good and created the light and formed the darkness” knows.
---------------------
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You can’t BS a BS-er, meaning I am also a living soul “flesh & spirit” and I know the hearts of men / flesh
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
However we should strive to have
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
who has a mind of The Father not of himself but of The one who sent him and is Good.
The Father, His Only Begotten Son, and His adopted Sons are one.
@JesusIs4Me
Now You.
So me saying that David at one point was The Christ or The Lord's Anointed makes me an Antichrist?
2Sa 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now concerning David’s son who took on the Family business.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or that me denying That the Son of God is a deity, But came out of the only True Deity and is the beginning of Creation makes me an Antichrist?
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christ / Anointed and Deity are not one in the same because one is of the other and came forth from the other
-----------------
@Bendito
Now to you.
Prior to my ip address being flagged and me being unable to access the website “even now”
You said some words that seem abominable “using sin to justify sin and partial witness reports” which I replied with Amo 5:18 “but I did not give any precepts” . Now I got final exams. However, after the fact I intend to use the scriptures to enrich uranium and bend the bow “as respectful as possible” but the bow will be bent nonetheless, Heavenly Father willing. Guard your weakness of correction thoroughly.
Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
----------------------------------
Lastly to everyone else
1. The Father is The Only True God, above all, and Sent his Son.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
2. The Son is the beginning of Creation and came out from God.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
3. The Son took on the flesh and seed of David thru Joseph.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
4. Yes Conceived of Holy Ghost and Seed of David by/thru Mary. No contradictions but a living soul “flesh and spirit” as his brethren.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
-------------------------------------------
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Fortunately it seems I can afford to be bold right now. Difficult to be persecuted online.
JesusIs4Me
Active
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2017
- Messages
- 704
Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.
Ivar
Member
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2018
- Messages
- 728
@JesusIs4Me
@JesusIs4Me
suprised if I will be able to post.
Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.
Interesting adhominem and a very good one to deflect from the subject and the meat of the matter.
I am of the impression that you are using that verse to call me foolish. My response is Ok. Interesting how we know to find scriptures to satisfy desires. That is why we will have no excuse.
---------------------
I was under the impression that the word was God because
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
And that the word was Man because
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
-----------------------------------------
However you say the word was God because
Joh 1:14 the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And Now Don't quote me now but based off your wisdom and me trying to feel you out.
The word was Man because
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
I got no quips for this one seems extremely blasphemous but to each his own. And as you imply I am foolish so perhaps not on your spiritual level, or my faith is not as strong as yours, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many individulas claim to study the scriptures but only read the scriptures or listen to someone give a sermon. Recently for example I heard someone mentioning airflow of God and discernment should have linked that to the Breath of Life and therefore the Holy Spirit but semantics are played. One does not know if that may have even been a test of sorts because it was not said plainly. That is why I have mentioned before many are not fluid with the precepts or volume of the book. Ranging levels and some are significantly lower.
@JesusIs4Me
suprised if I will be able to post.
Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.
Interesting adhominem and a very good one to deflect from the subject and the meat of the matter.
I am of the impression that you are using that verse to call me foolish. My response is Ok. Interesting how we know to find scriptures to satisfy desires. That is why we will have no excuse.
---------------------
I was under the impression that the word was God because
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
And that the word was Man because
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
-----------------------------------------
However you say the word was God because
Joh 1:14 the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
And Now Don't quote me now but based off your wisdom and me trying to feel you out.
The word was Man because
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
I got no quips for this one seems extremely blasphemous but to each his own. And as you imply I am foolish so perhaps not on your spiritual level, or my faith is not as strong as yours, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Many individulas claim to study the scriptures but only read the scriptures or listen to someone give a sermon. Recently for example I heard someone mentioning airflow of God and discernment should have linked that to the Breath of Life and therefore the Holy Spirit but semantics are played. One does not know if that may have even been a test of sorts because it was not said plainly. That is why I have mentioned before many are not fluid with the precepts or volume of the book. Ranging levels and some are significantly lower.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 11,952
Hello Member Ivar,
You truly make me sad. For in your ending as in your posting on this subject to me reflects a certain lack of understanding. Whether this is on your part being done on purpose or truly a lack of knowing after so many postings of those you communicate with here. I cannot truly say. What I do know is that it exists. However, to say Persecute? (Made me smile/sad at the same time.) To equate what goes on here on Talk Jesus as "persecution", truly puts shame to those who do suffer such in this world. I also can only assume that you feel this way because of my statement that when I find postings on this subject, I will pose the question I did here to you. Persecution? No Ivar. Just see it as one coming before the Judge in the hope that he will become weary of avoidance. Glad in a singular perspective you have decided to address it.
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Hello Again Ivar,
Now on to the subject matter of my post. The assumption I'm coming to in your addressing of John 8:58-59 is that you must not be aware of Exodus 3:14 as the Jews were who were present that day in the Temple must have been. For they clearly understood what Jesus was implying when He said "I am". No need to interpret their actions in any depth, especially after being talked to by Jesus throughout the day. Upon hearing what Jesus said they just reacted and if I may use our vernacular of the modern "Say what? You think you're God? Let's see how fast you can run!!!" or let's try "Say what? You were alive before Abraham? Let's see how fast you can run!!!" How many of those there thinking the latter thought, would have had the next thought to wanting to stone Him, and not confer with each other to see if it were worthy of a stoning offense? While the former and actual comment made would not have required any thought, but would have elicited an immediate reaction! Is there a Jewish Law on Blasphemy of Man or of God. Now if it were Islam!!!! Then stoning is justified for just about everything under the sun!!! Had to add that here, because it's still happens way too often in Sharia Law run Islamic countries. That or I'll cut you asunder! I digress my apologies Ivar.
Don't get me wrong. I understand what you are saying, but for it to meet your interpretation of what was said, it would have had to be written as "I was" and not "I am". The simplest way if that was Jesus' intent would have been to say "Verily Verily I say unto you before Abraham I was".
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Proverbs 27:7 Be full of the Word, and stay hungry for it Ivar! Don't be so quick to take everything as a slight. I love you too much to do so.
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With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
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P.S. Should have spent more time on this, but that is one thing I don't have at the moment, with an early work day. (Heavy sigh)
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