Can a true Christian sin or not?

[regibassman57]

@bibleguy,
You asked:
WHERE does Heb. 10:12 state that FUTURE sins were already taken away? NOWHERE! You just made that up.

First, no man can be alive to the nature of sin, and the nature of Righteousness. No man can develop in sin and develop in Righteousness. You are either alive to one or dead to the other. No man can serve God and Satan (Rom. 6:18, 20, 22).

Hebrews 10:10, 12 and 14 teach that Jesus took away future sins through the sanctification process. When a sinner accepts Jesus as Lord, they are forgiven and sanctified from “all” their sins forever; once for all. Jesus' sacrifice from the past purges the sins of believers in the future once for all. Man does not benefit having "ALL" their sins taken away and purged until they agree with 1John 1:9 and Rom. 10:9, 10. When they confess they are a sinner and have sinned, they are delivered from the "nature of sin;" this makes up the whole of "all" sins.

What does "all sins" mean?

G3956 (all)
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

Bibleguy, your response was:
My response: Sure we are sanctified. That does NOT prove that Jesus took away FUTURE sins that did not even occur yet!
You just made that up.
Try again!

You cannot be purged from the nature of sin and become a new creation (2Cor. 5:17) in Christ continuing to sin and develop in sin while being dead to the nature that developed the sin in Adam (Col. 1:13; Rom. 11:24). Believers are dead to Adam and alive in Christ (Rom. 8:9, 10). God knew and knows the heart of every man and their intent. God understood man's past and present condition of sin and has foreseen man's future condition in sin showing us these facts in prophecy. In God's mind, who works all things after the consul of His own will, placed all sins as well as foreseen future sins upon Jesus Christ; and judged the nature of sin by condemning all transgressions in Christ; liberating every believer from the nature of sin (Rom. 8:2, 3).

Bibleguy, you agreed with Hebrews 10:10 that Jesus sanctified believers from their sins once for all in your above response. "Once for all" means forever; which also means at a future time. Once a believer has been sanctified, they have been forgiven, cleansed, purged and all their sins have been taken away. A believer does not need to be sanctified, purged, or forgiven from sins ever again. Once a believer has been redeemed, they have been redeemed forever and forgiven of sins forever (Heb.9:12; Eph. 1:7). Sanctification, redemption and forgiveness of sins go hand in hand for all time.

Hebrews 10:10 teaches (referring to sins) believers have been "sanctified" once for all. The meaning of "once for all" is: now and for the last time; finally; conclusively, decisively, definitely, definitively, absolutely, irrevocably; etc. A believer does not need to ask for forgiveness because they are sanctified from their sins forever as you've also agreed with in your reply.

Hebrews 10:12 teaches after Jesus had offered one sacrifice for sins "forever" He sat down on the right hand of God. The meaning of "forever" is: for all future time; for always, continually, constantly, perpetually, incessantly, endlessly, persistently, etc.

When did Jesus offer the blood sacrifice for sins forever? Over two thousand years ago to sanctify, take away and remove the sins from those that initially will come to Him presently and in the future. A believer's sins are cleansed and forgiven once for all time. However, every man's sins have been judged once, and in that judgment futures sins were judged, present sins were judged and past sins were judged because the nature of sin was judged and condemned (Joh. 12:31; 16:11; Rom. 8:3). Those who believed at the time in Christ were declared Righteous; and those that did not believe we're condemned (Joh. 3:18). Those in the future that would believe will be declared Righteous and those who will not believe are already condemned from over two thousand years ago. If man is condemned forever in Satan for future sins (if they do not repent), a man is made Righteous from their sins and forgiven forever in Christ once for all. God is just.

Hebrews 1:3
Jesus being the brightness of God's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, “when Jesus had by himself "purged our sins,"sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Who's and what sins did Jesus purge? When something is purged is it removed and taken away?

Just as Jesus died unto sin once purging our sins, believers have also died unto sin once and were raised with Christ, from the dead; becoming dead to sins by the resurrection of Christ. A person that is dead to sins has no sins (Rom. 6:1, 2, 4, 10, 11; Col. 2:12). Believers were dead "in" sins until they died and rose with Christ; they then became dead "to" sins. Jesus has perfected "forever" them that are sanctified from sins. "From" denotes a "separation;" in this case it's from sin forever.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering Jesus has perfected forever them that are sanctified.

When Jesus purged the sins of the world, He sanctified the believers of the world "from" their sin. Jesus' one sacrifice and blood offering has been active for over two thousand years confirming the cleansing and the taking away of the sins of the world; giving the new born believer a clean consciousness from sin ( Heb. 10:2).

Bibleguy, your response to my scriptures in Hebrews 10 was:

My response: Of COURSE Jesus made one sacrifice for sins forever.
That does NOT prove that future sins are already taken away!
That just proves that IF any future sins occur, then Jesus' sacrifice will be able to apply to those sins and take those sins away.

I've proven how sins were purged and taken away once for all. John 1:29 and 1John 3:5 states Jesus "took away" the sin/sins of the world. I've asked you to contradict this fact and prove it to be inaccurate and not credible, but you have not done so and have rather chosen to send scriptures pertaining to only the penalty of sins being taken away. Jesus took away sin/sins at the same time He purged our sins and sat down (Heb. 1:3). Jesus purged the sins of the world and condemned them with the unbeliever and sinners until they come to Christ for sanctification (Col. 2: 13). At that point they will be given life and forgiveness of their sins, forever, and declared Righteous from sins as long as they are in the body of Christ.

Bibleguy, you agreed Jesus' one sacrifice is applied to future sins; which are sins that have not been committed yet. But you don't understand the sanctification process in Christ.

You said:
My response: Sure we are sanctified. That does NOT prove that Jesus took away FUTURE sins that did not even occur yet!
You just made that up.
Try again!

If a believer is sanctified they are purified, set apart and made holy "from" sins. Jesus could only sanctify, cleanse and purge the world of sin at the time of His death and resurrection. Again, every unbeliever and sinner is condemned because sin is also condemned (Rom. 8:2, 3) (Joh. 3:18). When an unbeliever repents they are sanctified from sin once for all.

Romans 4:25
Jesus was delivered for our offences (sins) and was raised again for our justification (innocence and righteousness from sin).

Jesus took away the sin of the world over 2000 years ago or John the Baptist lied.

John 1:29
The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

G142 (take away)
αἴρω [AI)/RW] {aírō} \ah'-ee-ro\
a primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare 05375) to expiate sin:--away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).
See Hebrew 05375.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I think I've aked you to read 1John and show me where they are speaking to unbelievers? I've said they are speaking to unbelievers within the first chapter. You can also read my post on 1John 1. If you need me to explain to you where in 1John 1 they are speaking to unbelievers I will show you.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
Please let me know where 1John chapter 1 shows John is talking to believers so I can admit my error.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
I've read Chad's post once again, where in the original greek posted does it use the phrase "a believer does not "practice sin" or "habitually sin" as it's taught in some of these versions other than the King James version?

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,
Sorry Dovegiven, I missed the G4160 and other things in my other posts trying to hurry, but it seems to me the interpreter understood the verse according to his or her belief. I see it different and others see it different as well.

G4160 (commit)
poieō
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.

It the refers us to "G4238:"

G4238 (commits)
prassō
A primary verb; to “practise”, that is, perform repeatedly or habitually (thus differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act); by implication to execute, accomplish, etc.; specifically to collect (dues), fare (personally): - commit, deeds, do, exact, keep, require, use arts.

What are the differences between the two interpretations? I see what Chad posted but it's not Chad's interpretation, he just believes what another man’s interpretation is as I do. But I’m not changing anything (neither is Chad), but the interpreters have added something that is not quote in Chad’s interpretation.

"G4160" "poieō" is the interpretation Chad respects, but I do not agree with that interpretation. I didn't have to interpret anything (as Chad didn’t either), but I let the Greek translators interpret their own Greek definitions; and they said (not me) compare "G4238." G4238 define "commits" not as a practice or habitual sin, but as a "single act; (thus differing from G4160, which properly refers to a single act and not a plural act as in practice or something done habitually.)

My confirmation is that Adam sinned one time (a single act) and he became a sinner. Jesus said if a man commits sin, he is the servant of sin (John 8:34). This confirms G4238; a single act.

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
My sister and brothers please understand; “WE “WERE” SINNERS” (past tense), "WE ARE NOW RIGHTEOUS!”

Rom 7:5 For when “WE “WERE” IN THE FLESH” (past tense), the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 8:9 But “YOU ARE NOT IN THE FLESH,” but “in the Spirit,” if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the “Spirit is life because of righteousness.”

Rom 5:8 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while “WE "WERE" YET SINNERS” (past tense), Christ died for us.

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many “WERE MADE SINNERS” (past tense), so by the obedience of one (Jesus) “shall many be made righteous.” (all believers are righteous)(you cannot be both; Righteous and a sinner)

A SINNER SINS
IF A SINNER IS BORN AGAIN THEY ARE NO LONGER A SINNER THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS
A BELIEVER HAS BEEN "HEALED" FROM SIN: (by Christ stripes you were healed (1Pet. 2:24)

 

[povawiqe]

Can a true Christian sin or not?

Yes, he can sin

• 1 John 1:8-10
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NASB)
  • "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (NKJV)

No, he cannot sin

• 1 John 3:9,
  • "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (NASB)
  • "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." (NKJV)
• 1 John 5:18,
  • "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." (NASB)
  • "We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him." (NKJV)

Is John contradicting himself when he says in one verse that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves (1 John 1:8), and yet he also says the one who is a Christian cannot sin (1 John 3:9; 5:18 NKJV)? There is no contradiction, but to see why we will need to look at the original Greek language.

Analysis

I have bolded the words above on which I would like to focus. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek word ποιεῖ (poiei) means to do, to practice. The V3SPAI is shorthand for Verb, 3rd Person Singular, Present, Active, Indicative. Likewise, VPAN means, Verb, Present, Active, Indicative.

ποιέωa: a marker of an agent relation with a numerable event—‘to do, to perform, to practice, to make.’ διδάσκων καὶ πορείαν ποιούμενος εἰς Ιεροσόλυμα ‘teaching as he made a journey to Jerusalem’ Lk 13:22; οἱ μαθηταὶ Ἰωάννου νηστεύουσιν πυκνὰ καὶ δεήσεις ποιοῦνται ‘John’s disciples often fast and pray’ Lk 5:33; τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν ‘in your name we did many miracles’ Mt 7:22; πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα ‘by faith he performed the Passover’ Heb 11:28.3​

So we see that the word means to do, to practice. But that isn't all. In Greek, like English, there are verb tenses: past, present, future. But in Greek, the present tense is not quite the same as the English. Instead, it is more a continuous action.

Present tense: "The verb tense where the writer portrays an action in process or a state of being with no assessment of the action’s completion."4​

​

Finally, in 1 John 3:9 we see an infinitive form of a verb. The infinitive is "to go," "to see," "to eat," etc. This is important.​

​

"And he cannot sin (και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτανειν [kai ou dunatai hamartanein]). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were και οὐ δυναται ἁμαρτειν [kai ou dunatai hamartein] or ἁμαρτησαι [hamartēsai] (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of ἁμαρτανει [hamartanei] in verse 8 and ἁμαρτανων [hamartanōn] in verse 6.5​

Conclusion

There is no contradiction. What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin. He may fall into it, but he does not practice it as a lifestyle. The nuances of the Greek language are not carried over to the English, but when we understand what is happening, we then see there is no problem.
Finally, any Christian who would say that he does not sin anymore fails to agree with 1 John 1:8 which says, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." He would then be self-deceived.

Article source: Can a true Christian sin or not? | CARM.org

Your interpretation is incorrect. What is being spoken of in this statement, "if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves", is referring to PAST sins, because at some point or another in our lives, we have all sinned, in which case, it becomes necessary to STOP SINNING, hence "be perfect" and "sin no more", and through stopping sinning, and subsequently receiving the airflow of God, which frees you from sin and removes the sinful nature of the heart, which is the circumcision of the heart, then you fulfill "he who is born of God cannot sin". This is the correct interpretation of these passages. If you still sin, then you haven't truly receiving the anointing of God, and subsequently cannot inherit the kingdom of God, because you are still a slave to sin.

 

[regibassman57]

@povawiqe,

I truly enjoyed reading your explanation on 1John 1:8, 10. I'm joyful to see where it goes from here and if I can continue to rejoice in and with the enlightenment of another's freedom in understanding. The light has shined very bright on this forum through your explanation and confirmation of what Jesus has done on the cross. Good Job in Christ.

I would like to add that the unbelieving Jews spoken of here in 1Joh. 1 can never say they have no sin. John is talking to unbelieving Jews. Only a believer can say, “I have no sins” and be justified in his speech. Once a sinner fulfills 1John 1:9, the nature of sin has been purged from that sinner and he has become a believer. Once this happens, that believer can forever say, “I have no sins” in Christ. The born again nature is “in” Christ where there is no sin (1Jo. 3:5). In Christ there is only sanctification and purity and the believing brother or sister has been bought with a price and can never be plucked or pluck themselves out of the body of Christ where there is no sin (1Co. 6:19,20).

 

[povawiqe]

@povawiqe,

I truly enjoyed reading your explanation on 1John 1:8, 10. I'm joyful to see where it goes from here and if I can continue to rejoice in and with the enlightenment of another's freedom in understanding. The light has shined very bright on this forum through your explanation and confirmation of what Jesus has done on the cross. Good Job in Christ.

I would like to add that the unbelieving Jews spoken of here in 1Joh. 1 can never say they have no sin. John is talking to unbelieving Jews. Only a believer can say, “I have no sins” and be justified in his speech. Once a sinner fulfills 1John 1:9, the nature of sin has been purged from that sinner and he has become a believer. Once this happens, that believer can forever say, “I have no sins” in Christ. The born again nature is “in” Christ where there is no sin (1Jo. 3:5). In Christ there is only sanctification and purity and the believing brother or sister has been bought with a price and can never be plucked or pluck themselves out of the body of Christ where there is no sin (1Co. 6:19,20).

I'm glad someone in this forum agrees!

 

[regibassman57]

@povawiqe,
Most definitely. Though most do not agree with our position, I take it as a challenge. I take it as a trial in charater because Satan comes to try our patience and tolerance. The joy of this is exercising Godliness in the times of trials which makes every believer stronger if we are obedient in our exercise. We do not fight against flesh and blood, but Satan tries to get us to feel emotionally frustrated toward people we don't even know, cannot see or have no idea who they are; "FOOLISHNESS." We have the upper hand because we know what God's word says concerning our conduct.

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

 

[Dovegiven]

@Dovegiven,
Please let me know where 1John chapter 1 shows John is talking to believers so I can admit my error.

A problem with understanding the Bible is the interference of chapter divisions. Chapters were not placed between doctrines, but were added to help organize study of it, sort of a better practice than folding a "dogear" in a page corner. Otherwise the alternative would be to number each verse from start to finish in each letter.

1 John 2 continues with the same audience as chapter 1. Chapter 1 initiates John"s warnings of false teachers among the Christians at Ephesus, really wherever Christians are found. The Jewish deceivers soon appeared among them. The apostles tended to identify themselves in each letter as definitely putting Christ and love before all else, giving their testimony which was always fresh news to new believers. Paul's ministry focused on gentiles. John's was to elevate the divinity and love aspects of Jesu, teaching Christians what behavior is the mark of those elements. Jews were in the habit of disagreeing totally with John, denying he was the Christ, or that his blood mattered. Read through all of 1 John without stopping, hopefully realizing that message is meant for babes in Christ as well as elder Christians then and now. Chapter 2 verifies that. It wouldn't make sense for chapter 1 being a message to Jews, the rest to Christians. If it was he would have made that clear in the prologue.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

If you read the context of a subject the chapters are meaningless initially. You can read the first chapter and know who John is talking to. Chapter one is talking to unbelieving Jews whereas chapter 2 is talking to a mixer of believers and unbelievers. This is easily proven by the context. Look below and show me where I’m wrong.

You said:
Chapter 1 initiates John"s warnings of false teachers among the Christians at Ephesus, really wherever Christians are found.

Where do you read what you wrote above in 1John chapter 1?

It’s very clear John is talking to Jews in the first chapter.

This post is about 1John 1:

Who was John speaking to? (Gal. 2:7-9)

Verse 1: We know John was talking about Jesus Christ. John wrote the book of the Gospel of John.

Verse 2: The Jews (John’s Brethren) are those he was talking to, who did not know or have the understanding of Jesus Christ. This is why John was bearing witness (1Joh. 1:1) or proclaiming unto them Jesus Christ (John 20:19-23).

Verse 3: Again John was declaring and announcing to these Jews the knowledge of Jesus Christ, that they may have “fellowship” with Him as well as God His Father. If a man does not have fellowship with the Son, they do not have fellowship with the Father (Joh. 14:6; 1Jo. 1:3; 2:22-24; 2Jo. 1:9).

Verse 4: John realizes his brethrens need the joy of The Lord; without Christ they have no joy (we are not talking about the joy of the world) (Joh. 16:20, 21; 17:13).

Verse 5: John begins to thoroughly explain to these Jews what the message is concerning this God and His Son Jesus Christ whom they have not known. John teaches them that God is light and there is no darkness (sin) in Him at all. This is the second time John expresses declaring something unto these Jews (because they didn’t know). This is done because these listeners are not saved. This is John’s witness to get his brethren born again.

Verse 6: John explains a man cannot say they have fellowship with God or His son and walk in darkness (sin); they’re lying; (John just said in “verse 5,” there is no darkness (sin) in God); they are not doing or telling the truth.

Verse 7: John starts to reveal to these Jews what they need to do in order to have fellowship with God and His Son. If they walk in the light of Jesus Christ is light, they can have fellowship with God, His Son and with John (Joh. 8:12; 12:46). This is how their joy can be full; and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of “all” their sins. A man cannot be in the body of Christ with sins (there is no sins in Jesus); this is why Jesus will cleanse a man first before placing them in His body.

Verse 8: If a man says they have no sin they’re deceiving themselves. A believer can say they have no sin without deceiving themselves. Jesus just told these Jews, He will cleanse them of “all” their sins; once these Jews are cleansed they “can say” they have no sin. An unbeliever can never say they have no sin and they will be deceiving themselves because have not been cleansed (Heb. 10:11, 12, 14, 17, 18). Verse 7 does not specify a time of how long the cleansing agent last, but Hebrews 10 does.

Verse 9: John explains to these Jews the cleansing process whereby they can say, they have no sin. If they confess their sins God is faithful to forgive them and cleanse them of all unrighteousness (1Jo. 1:7; Rom. 10:9, 10)

Verse 10: If a person says they have “not sinned,” (past tense for believer, present for unbelievers) they make God a liar and His word is not in them (Rom. 3:4; 3:23).

 

[Dovegiven]

I would like to know whether you believe you are at present as sinless as Jesus. Do you not need Jesus' righteousness anymore by faith? I am asking because of the nature of faith which is required to access God's grace. Your answer will direct my reply to that post.

 

[regibassman57]

@Dovegiven,

Yes, 100% sinless. Because Jesus sanctified me in Him, I am sanctified from “all” sin.

1Co 6:11 And such “were” some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Dovegiven, you oppose this scripture. You are not continually washed, sanctified and justified from sin according to your staatement of faith.. You are saying you still sin (you cannot sin and be Righteous; that's serving two masters) (Mat. 6:24), therefore, according to your faith, you are not presently washed, sanctified and justified by the Spirit of God in the times you sin. The only people that are sanctified are those that have the Spirit of God living in their heart. If the Spirit of God is in you, you are infinitely washed, sanctified and justified forever from all sins.

You have to understand 2Corithians 5:21. God imputed every sin of man that was, is and will be upon Jesus Christ. In exchange, God imputed His Righteousness upon all that has, does and will believe in Jesus Christ, as well as the punishment for sins.

Unbeliever’s sins have been put upon Jesus Christ. When Jesus condemned sin, He also condemned all unbelievers (Rom. 8;3). If an unbeliever comes to the light, (to Jesus), and confess as 1John 1:9 says, they will be forgiven and purged of “all” their sins once for all (Heb. 1:3).

The Grace of God is Jesus in us. We cannot have the Grace of God without faith. As Christ is in this world so are we in this world (1Joh. 4:17). I am spiritually pure and Righteous as Christ. If you don’t see yourself in the nature of Christ alone, you are double minded. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways (Jam. 1:8).

 

[regibassman57]

@Life,
1. Under the law sin was covered (concealed) not taken away.

• 2. In Christ sin was taken away (not covered)
• 
  
• 3. Under the law the penalty of sin was death.
• 
  
• 4. In Christ the penalty of sin was taken away.
• 
  
• 5. God imputed man’s sin and the penalty for sin upon Christ.
• 
  
• 6. God imputed Christ’s Righteousness unto all believers.

7. Under the law God imputed sin unto man.

8. In Christ God is not imputing sin to a believer.

 

[povawiqe]

@Dovegiven,

Yes, 100% sinless. Because Jesus sanctified me in Him, I am sanctified from “all” sin.

1Co 6:11 And such “were” some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Dovegiven, you oppose this scripture. You are not continually washed, sanctified and justified from sin according to your staatement of faith.. You are saying you still sin (you cannot sin and be Righteous; that's serving two masters) (Mat. 6:24), therefore, according to your faith, you are not presently washed, sanctified and justified by the Spirit of God in the times you sin. The only people that are sanctified are those that have the Spirit of God living in their heart. If the Spirit of God is in you, you are infinitely washed, sanctified and justified forever from all sins.

You have to understand 2Corithians 5:21. God imputed every sin of man that was, is and will be upon Jesus Christ. In exchange, God imputed His Righteousness upon all that has, does and will believe in Jesus Christ, as well as the punishment for sins.

Unbeliever’s sins have been put upon Jesus Christ. When Jesus condemned sin, He also condemned all unbelievers (Rom. 8;3). If an unbeliever comes to the light, (to Jesus), and confess as 1John 1:9 says, they will be forgiven and purged of “all” their sins once for all (Heb. 1:3).

The Grace of God is Jesus in us. We cannot have the Grace of God without faith. As Christ is in this world so are we in this world (1Joh. 4:17). I am spiritually pure and Righteous as Christ. If you don’t see yourself in the nature of Christ alone, you are double minded. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways (Jam. 1:8).

There are few people that claim to never sin anymore. And even though I am aware that in the Messiah we must completely stop sinning and be perfect, not even I make that claim, at least yet, because I am still undergoing a process to come into complete obedience to the commandments of God, which are in his Torah. Now, let me ask you a few personal questions in regards to your righteousness,

1. I presume you are a man because of your username. Have you grown out your beard as the Torah commands?
2. Do you wear tzitzit, tallit, tefillin as the Torah commands, at least when praying or prophesying?
3. Do you buy and sell through the banking system?
4. Do you pay for any type of insurance, such as health, life, auto, social security?
5. What manifestation of power did you exhibit when you were baptized with the airflow of God?

In my opinion, anyone who claims to no longer sin better have ALL his ducks in a row.

 

[Dave M]

@regibassman57 you have admitted you still do wrong , but claim its not sin. Ok so here is the question what exactly wrong do you do?? just so we are on the same page I also do wrong so I am not trying to look down or condemn.

 

[regibassman57]

@povawiqe,

You of yourself and I myself cannot stop sinning period; that is impossible for us. It's not about our actions where sin is concerned but it's about what Jesus Christ "HAS DONE FOR US" on the cross.

We are saved by Grace, "from what?” from sin. We are not saved by Grace by our actions but by Jesus’ actions. We were sinners and defiled and the sacrifice for sins had to come from a perfect vessel. Only Jesus being perfect could become the atonement for the sin of the world.

The blood of bulls and goats could only cover sins; not take them away. Jesus on the other hand “did not” cover sins, He took sins away, purging our sins and then sat down on the right hand of God (Heb. 1:3). Yours, mine and the sins of the world were "IMPUTED" to Jesus Christ, God was satisfied and then "IMPUTED" His Everlasting Righteousness unto "ALL" believers without our actions of works in any way. The just shall live by faith.

If a man does not believe Jesus took away sins, (not covered them), they can only believe that the blood of Jesus Christ did not take away sins, therefore, mirroring the atonement under the Mosaic Law believing man's sins were covered. If this is the case that believer does not have faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ which truly has taken away our sins. There is a difference between "taking away and covering sins."

The other information is not pertinent to what Jesus did for our sins.

Let me ask you a question: Can Righteousness and Sin abide in the same vessel? If not how can a believer who is Righteous sin.? Especially if Righteousness said He will never leave?

I like how you approached this, and I hope you will continue to dig questioning me to find out more information.

 

[povawiqe]

You of yourself and I myself cannot stop sinning period; that is impossible for us. It's not about our actions where sin is concerned but it's about what Jesus Christ "HAS DONE FOR US" on the cross.

Its in that first statement where you are in error, because it is indeed about our "actions", or "works", otherwise the Torah nor the apostles would have said, "do not commit adultery", which is an action, and various others "do nots". If actions didn't matter, then there wouldn't be such as thing as a Torah, which says "do not do this", or "do this". The Torah reveals all that is evil, and also all that is good, it is the knowledge of good and evil. The Messiah came not only to atone for sin, but to end it, through his blood, which the blood of animals was never able to do. And the way sin ends for each individual is by receiving the airflow of God, typically called the "baptism of the holy spirit", who enters your body, and cuts away the sinful nature of the heart, and in this way, you are caused to never sin again, which is called being "set free from sin" and the "circumcision of the heart". If you still sin, then you haven't truly received the airflow of God, you are still a slave to sin. And the way to receive the airflow of God is by ceasing to do evil actions, "repentance" and "sin no more", which are the actions the Torah forbids, then lowering yourself by selling your possessions and properties, as the Messiah required, and then beginning to do good actions, such as giving to the poor, as the Torah says and also the Messiah said, and then.... you may receive the airflow of God, but if you refuse to do these things, you will never receive him. And if you think you can never stop sinning, you will also never receive him. And if you never receive him, you also will never inherit the kingdom of God. And when you do receive the airflow of God, not only will you be caused to never sin again, in the way I explained above, but you will also be imbued with power, power to resurrect the dead, and heal those with incurable diseases. There is always a manifestation of power when receiving the airflow of God. Many claim to have the airflow of God, but they do not, and it is evident because they still sin, and also because they lack power.

 

[regibassman57]

@povawiqe,

You should not say a person is in error unless you can prove it. Povawiqe, you are in error. I enjoyed everything you said except when you told me I was in error; only because you could not prove it. But you must have thought I was saying a man's works were not sin before they became born again? I was not saying that.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2, 8 and 9 is not talking about saved unto Eternal Life, but it talking about saved from sin. Verses 1 through 9 is talking about sin not Eternal Life. Verse 1 and 5 sets the context of sin. You cannot work for your salvation from sin.

The works of sin was done by Jesus Christ on the cross this is why He said, “I have finished the work” you gave me to do (Joh. 17:4). This was the first part of the work. Jesus completed the work on the cross and in the resurrection (Joh. 19:30).

Yes, the Torah reveals knowledge of good and evil works, but it also reveals what Righteousness is, and the Torah could not make a man Righteous spiritually by their works (Gal. 3:21). The Righteousness in Christ is “sinlessness” and the Torah only covered sin. Jesus took sins away by purging man’s sins (Heb.1:3). Through the purging of sins being place upon Jesus, He circumcised and healed believer's hearts from sin. By Christ’s stripes we “were” healed (past tense) from sin (1Pe. 2:24). We can never be sick from sin again once for all.

Everything else I agree with. I’ve never heard the term “airflow” though.