What is Canon? Is it man's law or the WORD.

[Hadsa]

Who really can determine what is Canon? Is it the RCC, Protestant, or Orthodox?
The main three super powers who wield the Word, have different views on this.
What is the view here? And based on that view what is the proof of surety?

It is fact that all scripture was (first) given to the Jew then gentile. And ALL the books of Hebrew
study were just that , of Hebraic study before the gentile omitted or admitted.
I was asked to answer a question before I logged in, "How many Canonical books are there". I thought on this, knowing
some Orthodox views, RCC views and Protestant views, that question and answer would determine the views of this forum.

When I first came here, I asked - "Even though this forum does not say what it is closely aligned with- what is the dominate
denominational view here", I was mislead into believing there was not one for sure.

Canon means written Law- is scripture the written law or is what man says the law?

The ancient Hebrews studied all of the OC writings, there were no extra canonical , they were all the LAW and the PROPHETS.
For instance Protestants and some of its many sects reject The Maccabees , yet the Hebrews study this and greater , wrote them.
Yet because it does not fit some Protestant sects narrative, they are rejected.Is this because they are not supported in Christ's teachings for sure?, or they do not support a denominational sect's view? And Of course they were several books reject by Luther. And prior to Luther
the RCC too rejected books. The only ones who have preserved ALL the Books are the Jews even if they do not use them all (excluding NT) and the Ethiopians
who do use all the books. Orthodox 81, RCC 73, Protestant(depending on who you come across) 66. I get all the extra Canonical stuff. But Truth is truth.
Extra or not, so how do we know what IS TRUE? Not to mention the Messianic, who converted, by mainly (Protestant groups) reject many of the same books the Protestants do, and do one better(In rejection) and add the Talmud and Kabbalah. So what is what TRULY?????

All Scripture is God-Breathed 2Tomothy 3:15-17
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is profitable for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

My point : many books have been rejected as not reliable for accurate information. Have you as teachers tested this? I say teachers because it has been my experience here in the past that if you do not share the same exact view you are blocked from responding to threads. Even if scripture CLEARLY SUPPORTS arugement.

Scripture can not contradict itself. There are many divisions among all the denominations, so have you study why these division are? I would like to address the bones of contention for the denominations and prove or disprove what is already standing as doctrine, if that is allowed. But if you all feel you know everything , I will leave it alone.

Eyewitnesses of His Majesty 2peter 1:19-21
…19We also have the message of the prophets, which has been confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to this message, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…
And Hello again, Peace in Christ!

 

[B-A-C]

The Council of Nicea mostly determined the Canon in the 3rd century, there really wasn't a "new testament" per se before this.

There were things like... you had to be an Apostle or sponsored by an Apostle. There is one exception. The book of Hebrews, many think Paul wrote it, but no one knows for sure.
For example Luke wasn't an Apostle, but he is mentioned by the Apostle's in their writings.

One of the other requirements, is that the book had to reveal the divine nature of God/Jesus. This was true for book of the old testament even more so than the books of the new testament.
For example... in the canonized Bible.... You can look at almost any story in the Bible as a "type" of Jesus. There are literally hundreds of them.
Here is a very short and incomplete list... but hopefully it'll get the idea across.
In the story of Abraham and Isaac, a Father tells the son to up a hill for a sacrifice. The son has to carry the wood for the sacrifice on his back.
Abraham's "only" son (from his wife Sarah) was to die, but yet God provided a Lamb, and the son didn't really die.

In this story.. Isaac could be considered a type of Christ. Who was told by His Father to carry a wooden cross up a hill, for a sacrifice. A lamb was provided.
But also like Isaac... Jesus isn't dead. He is risen.

Moses led the Jews out of bondage and into the wilderness to be tested, and eventually to the "promised land". (at least a few of them).
Much like Jesus leads us out of bondage to the "promised land". Moses could be considered a type of Christ.

Joseph was sold into slavery for some silver. Jesus was sold for some silver. The ark saved (a remnant) of mankind from total extinction. Jesus saves mankind from total extinction.
David was a king of Israel, Jesus is called the king of the Jews. Boaz was a kinsman redeemer, Jesus is a kinsman redeemer. Almost every story in the Bible reveals some nature
about God/Jesus. Some books that some people wanted to canonize didn't meet either of these requirements.

For the old testament, you had to be a prophet, or leader (even a king) of the Jews. Again there some exceptions... Esther, and Ruth come to mind, but Ruth contains the story of Boaz (another type of Christ).

As you say.. even to this day not every agrees which books should be included.... but in the case of the apocrypha, none of the books were written by apostles (or sponsored by an apostle).
and none of them really 'reveal the divine nature of God/Jesus". Some scriptures often taken into consideration are Matt 23:35; and Luke 11:51; Jesus mentions prophets from Abel (Genesis) to Zechariah.
but He doesn't mention any of the apocryphal books, even though they existed before He was on the earth. Why didn't He include them?

Abel is considered a type of Christ, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, David, Boaz, Joseph, there are dozens of others.
Not that any of those people can save you.. (only Jesus can do that).. but rather their stories reveal the character of Jesus to us.

John 5:39; You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

Jesus says the Bible is really about Him. (remember the old testament was all they had when He said this).

 

[KingJ]

Scripture can not contradict itself. There are many divisions among all the denominations, so have you study why these division are? I would like to address the bones of contention for the denominations and prove or disprove what is already standing as doctrine, if that is allowed. But if you all feel you know everything , I will leave it alone.

Eyewitnesses of His Majesty 2peter 1:19-21
…19We also have the message of the prophets, which has been confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to this message, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever brought about through human initiative, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…
And Hello again, Peace in Christ!

I believe God is for all the chaos / different denominations. Jesus is not lost in any Christian denomination.

On one hand, God is not the author of confusion. On the other hand, He did put the serpent on earth, in the same garden as Adam and Eve. Knowing he would deceive many.

 

[KingJ]

It is fact that all scripture was (first) given to the Jew then gentile. And ALL the books of Hebrew

God giving the law to the Jews was God ''going through the motions''. Like documenting how to ride a bicycle. Cain sinned. Cain knew he sinned. God approached him and gave him a chance to repent. He did not.

God's law is in our working brains. Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever''.

 

[Hadsa]

I believe God is for all the chaos / different denominations. Jesus is not lost in any Christian denomination.

On one hand, God is not the author of confusion. On the other hand, He did put the serpent on earth, in the same garden as Adam and Eve. Knowing he would deceive many.

Interesting point. At least your thinking about it all, so am I. The wheat and the weeds are to grow together until the harvest. I believe, the weeds are in full growth and no longer tares. They no longer look the same, but are now revealed as to what they truly are WEEDS. In these days, the Lord said man will go to and fro learning and knowledge shall increase, this due to His pouring forth of His Spirit in full measure .

 

[Hadsa]

God giving the law to the Jews was God ''going through the motions''. Like documenting how to ride a bicycle. Cain sinned. Cain knew he sinned. God approached him and gave him a chance to repent. He did not.

God's law is in our working brains. Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever''.

Good point, kind of explains the video I watched that Bendito posted. The mind must therefore be brought under submission to the Spirit.
Cain and Abel Genesis4:5-7
…5but He had no regard for Cain and his offering. So Cain became very angry, and his countenance fell. 6And the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry, and why is your face downcast? 7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; you are its object of desire, but you must master it.”…

You put into perspective the phrase " This spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". Since the mind governs man and all neurons firing send signals to the flesh, it would seem the mind must be mastered. COOL!