John 3-13 ??

[Sue D.]

Absolutely yes!!!!! When the Bible says come to the throne of grace, that is not just a make believe suggestion, that is reality!!! Jesus is the "way", which means "highway", the "truth" which means "reality", and the life. Jesus is the highway that goes directly to the reality of life!!!

Jesus said......

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

If there is anything the people of God like to do the most, is to eat!!! A pasture is were we eat! Jesus is the "door", or "way" to the Father, and there he feeds us the "hidden manna"

Either the Bible is true, and we must believe it, or just cross our fingers that maybe someday, if we are lucky we will be able to have fellowship with God in his Kingdom in which he has brought us to.

Your translation of John 14:6 "I am the way the truth and the life and that no man comes to the Father, but by Me." Is interesting. Jesus Christ says that The 'way' is through the cross. The truth means that there is no other name under heaven to men by which we are saved. (Acts 4:12) We can rely on God's Word being The Truth.

The Great "I Am's" of Christ -- He is the bread of life -- Springs of Living water.

God provided 'manna' for the Children of Israel when they were wandering in the desert for those years. It was not hidden. It was provided by God and the people gathered it every day for their food.

The reality in life is that God provided the cross of Christ -- His shed blood for us and His bodily resurrection -- to be either accepted or rejected by 'us'. Accepting = heaven // rejection = eternity in hell with satan in lake of fire and brimstone -- total darkness. It has nothing to do with 'luck' or 'crossing our fingers'. We Can know that we Will have eternal life / fellowship with God in His kingdom.

 

[Curtis]

God provided 'manna' for the Children of Israel when they were wandering in the desert for those years. It was not hidden.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus Christ says that The 'way' is through the cross. The truth means that there is no other name under heaven to men by which we are saved.

Look up the word "way" It means "highway". The word "truth" means "reality". Reality is only found where things never change. This world is "real" but it is not "reality" because it is ever changing. The Kingdom of God never changes, and it is the only place that will continue forever, just like God is unchangeable, and it is in him we live, move and have our being.

There was a prophecy spoken of that was given only unto the Church age that is today.

Isa 35:8 And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.
Isa 35:9 No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
Isa 35:10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

This is the "highway" that Jesus provided for his Church when he was raised from the dead!! It is for the "redeemed" only we can walk there.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

There is that word again "way" which means "highway". It is a "Living highway" which means you do not have to wait until some future date to use it.

Remember What Jesus also said about this way (highway)......

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Curtis -- have You looked up the definition of "way" -- I just "Googled" it -- maybe you should, also.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Curtis -- have You looked up the definition of "way" -- I just "Googled" it -- maybe you should, also.

I also just looked up "Truth" -- Mirriam-Webster -- -- what is your source for definitions.

And, yes, this world Is real and the reality Of it is that it is continually changing in some form or another. The weather, styles of clothing, Societies' values. It is Also true that God and His Word do not change. That is why it's more important to follow God's guidelines than that of the world. God loves us and knows what's Best for us. Society is fickle -- it Doesn't care what happens to the individual. Back to John 14:6 -- the 'truth' is that this world is real and the reality is that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. By means of the cross -- His shed blood. There is no other road, path, highway -- Only the cross. God created this world -- and the people / us/ mankind/ needed a Savior. Because of all the evil in this world.

 

[B-A-C]

Eph 2:6; and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Well obviously we aren't in the physical heaven. So we must be in the 'spiritual' heaven. For me, this simply means we
are in the kingdom of God. (kingdom of heaven)

Satan was also in heaven once however.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

I think this view affects a lot about how you view the Bible and end times events.

For example... the New Jerusalem comes down 'AFTER" the millennial reign. During the millennial reign,
Satan is imprisoned for 1,000 years.

For those people who believe the New Jerusalem is simply a spiritual name for the church during this time
(they believe the New Jerusalem is already here, and we are already in it, if so... it is quite the disappointment).

But my question would be... when was Satan imprisioned for 1,000 years? Why is he still running around loose?
After the millennial reignn, Satan is released for awhile, but then cast into the Lake of Fire.

When did this happen? If it hasn't happened yet, then the New Jerusalem isn't here yet.

 

[Sue D.]

@B-A-C --- Your comment -- "so we must be in the 'spiritual' heaven." because we're obviously not in the physical heaven. So Your speculation is that of-- there being a 'spiritual' heaven. So For You, this means we are in the kingdom of God (kingdom of heaven) ---- Your speculation and Your conclusion.

The book of Revelation says that Satan Will be imprisoned in an abyss -- After the 7 yrs of tribulation -- 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. And Then the 2nd actual coming of Jesus Christ -- here on earth -- and His reigning for the 1,000 yrs. with the saints reigning with Him.

Satan is still very much alive and well on planet earth. There's a small, paper-back book out by that name. I have a copy of it. And it Is True.

The world / We/ see the results all around us of satan's influence in this world.

You're right -- none of this has happened yet. But it Will.

Revelation 20 and 21 talk about both the 1,000 yr reign and the New Jerusalem. Rev. 21:1 "Then I saw the new heaven and a new earth,for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God with a description following.

Unfortunately there are those who don't want to take Revelation seriously. Want it all symbolic / figurative. But certainly not literal. There Is a lot of symbolism -- but as one author said -- something can be Both symbolic and very literal.

 

[B-A-C]

--- Your comment -- "so we must be in the 'spiritual' heaven." because we're obviously not in the physical heaven. So Your speculation is that of-- there being a 'spiritual' heaven. So For You, this means we are in the kingdom of God (kingdom of heaven) ---- Your speculation and Your conclusion.

The book of Revelation says that Satan Will be imprisoned in an abyss -- After the 7 yrs of tribulation -- 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. And Then the 2nd actual coming of Jesus Christ -- here on earth -- and His reigning for the 1,000 yrs. with the saints reigning with Him.

Satan is still very much alive and well on planet earth. There's a small, paper-back book out by that name. I have a copy of it. And it Is True.

Interesting you should mention that book. The spiritual heaven is also Hal Lindsey's "speculation and conclusion".

The tribulation is only 3 1/2 years. The great tribulation is 3 1/2 years. It's 7 years total.

 

[Sue D.]

Interesting you should mention that book. The spiritual heaven is also Hal Lindsey's "speculation and conclusion".

The tribulation is only 3 1/2 years. The great tribulation is 3 1/2 years. It's 7 years total.

Yes -- the 7 yrs are the total years -- the Great Tribulation is the last 3 1/2 yr period.

Yes, it depends on what a person's speculations and conclusions are based on.

Well -- satan Is still very much alive and well on planet earth. And that's what I was referring as being true. There Are those who think we're living in the 1,000 yr reign of Christ Now. That somehow - satan is bound Now.

Actually -- I just now relocated the book. Will take a closer look at it.

 

[Curtis]

@ Curtis -- have You looked up the definition of "way" -- I just "Googled" it -- maybe you should, also.

The Greek word for "way" in (John 14:6)
ὁδός
hodós; gen. hodoú, fem. noun. Way.
(I) In respect to place, a way, highway, road, street.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes -- the 7 yrs are the total years -- the Great Tribulation is the last 3 1/2 yr period.

Yes, it depends on what a person's speculations and conclusions are based on.

Well -- satan Is still very much alive and well on planet earth. And that's what I was referring as being true. There Are those who think we're living in the 1,000 yr reign of Christ Now. That somehow - satan is bound Now.

Actually -- I just now relocated the book. Will take a closer look at it.

You said that Hal Lindsay also believes in a spiritual heaven. He packs a LOT into his little paper back. Can you be more specific as to where in the book he talks about that?!

 

[Curtis]

I also just looked up "Truth" -- Mirriam-Webster -- -- what is your source for definitions.

And, yes, this world Is real and the reality Of it is that it is continually changing in some form or another. The weather, styles of clothing, Societies' values. It is Also true that God and His Word do not change. That is why it's more important to follow God's guidelines than that of the world. God loves us and knows what's Best for us. Society is fickle -- it Doesn't care what happens to the individual. Back to John 14:6 -- the 'truth' is that this world is real and the reality is that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. By means of the cross -- His shed blood. There is no other road, path, highway -- Only the cross. God created this world -- and the people / us/ mankind/ needed a Savior. Because of all the evil in this world.

The Greek word "truth" in (John 14:6)

ἀλήθεια
alḗtheia; gen. alētheías, fem. noun from alēthḗs (G227), true. Truth, reality

I use a Hebrew, Greek dictionary called "the Complete Word Study written by many scholars. I bought it to use inside "E-Sword"

 

[B-A-C]

You said that Hal Lindsay also believes in a spiritual heaven. He packs a LOT into his little paper back. Can you be more specific as to where in the book he talks about that?!

Chapter 25: The Rapture Factor

. God will give them the chance to fulfill their previously allotted time grant, while the true believers, who were removed, are consecrated to the Messiah Jesus in the heavens. These 144,000 evangelists are Jews whom you may have told about Jesus. They will keep the knowledge in their hearts, hesitating—but once the Rapture occurs, they will say, “Oh, my Christian friend was right. He just disappeared. Jesus must be the Messiah. I now accept Him. What’s next, Lord?” Tell the world for seven years!
Our point is that God uses only one program at a time. First the Jews of Israel, who were still proselytizing, though perhaps wrongly, in Jesus’ day (Matt. 23:15).5 Then, once Israel officially sealed the rejection of the Messiah, a new program, the Church—or rather, the true believers—became the new evangelists.
God’s Church program has been used for two millenia. However, once again, when the Church is removed in the Rapture, God will use Israel. This can clearly be seen in certain cryptic verses in the New Testament book of Revelation. In chapters 1-3, the Church is mentioned thirty times, but in chapter 4, John is called up6 into that open door in Heaven (a symbol of the Rapture). Afterwards, in chapters 6-18, we read nothing of the Church, for this is the Tribulation period. Only in chapter 19 do we again see the Church, as it returns to Earth after the Tribulation is ended by Jesus and His believers.

 

[Sue D.]

Interesting you should mention that book. The spiritual heaven is also Hal Lindsey's "speculation and conclusion".

The tribulation is only 3 1/2 years. The great tribulation is 3 1/2 years. It's 7 years total.

I was just Googling - spiritual heaven -- kind of an unusual term. Putting 'spiritual' with heaven. Have been finding that various belief groups use various terms for heaven -- to describe heaven. Who or what actually Goes to heaven.

Hal Lindsey is Trying to get across how seriously people need to take satan and his very real influence in this world. His other book is "The Late Great Planet Earth". Have not read that. And it's been a Long time since reading the one we do have.

A quote from pg 97 "Mainly we must be aware of how Satan is using art, music, philosophy, education, economics, and the mass media to entice us away from God's view of life."

Need to close up shop for now.

 

[Sue D.]

Chapter 25: The Rapture Factor

In the paperback that I have -- Satan is Alive and Well on Planet Earth -- there are only 14 chapters.

 

[Sue D.]

Chapter 25: The Rapture Factor

Well -- I can't say that I agree with some of what is in that paragraph.

 

[B-A-C]

"@Sue D."

Well then... how do you see heaven? What is heaven to you?
If you died today... where would you go? (don't just say heaven, describe the place as best you can).

Now I realize, none of us have been there yet, and we don't know everything about it. But you must have some idea
of what you think it is. As Hal Lindsey says... "we must go 'somewhere'".
A great many people believe in something called "soul sleep". You just 'sleep' in the grave until the resurrection. But even if this is the case, eventually you go somewhere else.

...or.... do we simply just return to the dust, and our spirit ceases to exist?

We don't have to debate or argue about it. I am just curious as to your perspective.

 

[Dave M]

"@Sue D."

Well then... how do you see heaven? What is heaven to you?
If you died today... where would you go? (don't just say heaven, describe the place as best you can).

Now I realize, none of us have been there yet, and we don't know everything about it. But you must have some idea
of what you think it is. As Hal Lindsey says... "we must go 'somewhere'".
A great many people believe in something called "soul sleep". You just 'sleep' in the grave until the resurrection. But even if this is the case, eventually you go somewhere else.

...or.... do we simply just return to the dust, and our spirit ceases to exist?

We don't have to debate or argue about it. I am just curious as to your perspective.

It is very interesting to get peoples view on this question. I am very surprised to find so many people believe in soul sleep. (I know you dont BAC)

Then there are those that believe in Abraham's Bosom is still where we go.

Most of my life I believed in purgatory is where we went.

I now believe we go to realm that is paradise in heaven (i know that word paradise open debate also) where God the almighty is. I don't think we will be able to tell if we are in spirit or out of body. Because of how Paul describes it.

In the book of revelation there is talk about clearing out of all the saints in heaven when Jesus returns so that leads me to believe we are are in heaven with Jesus.

 

[B-A-C]

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

I have wondered about this verse, I have always thought that this is before Jesus came to earth.

Back to the OP for a minute.

First maybe some clarifications here?
For example... the phrase "eternal life" is in my Bible over 40 times in the new testament.

Here are a few examples.

Matt 19:16; And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life?."
John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life?.
John 3:36; "He who believes in the Son has eternal life?; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 6:47; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life?.
Rom 5:21; so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life? through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:23; For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life? in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are literally dozens more. But hopefully you get the idea. What does eternal life mean to you?
The word eternal means - non-ending, everlasting, going on forever, non-stopping. Your life never ends.
Now in a sense, no ones life ever "just ends".

Even the wicked non-believers live forever. But they "live" in the lake of fire (if you want to call that living). The Bible calls this the
second death. ( Rev 20:14; Rev 21:8; ). The the eternal life in the verses above is talking about living forever with God, dwelling with Jesus... forever!

Now as much as we would like our current fleshly bodies to live forever... they don't. The Bible says we will get "new" bodies. ( 1 Cor 15:35-49; )
Come to think of it. My body is old, has a lot of scars, doesn't work as good as it used to. I have pains here and there. A new body doesn't
sound so bad to me.

So.. if we have eternal life... and (eventually) get new bodies... where do we go?
Do we just wander around on the earth like ghosts? Or do we go somewhere else?

Jesus said...

John 14:2; "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3; "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Where is this place? Where is His Father's house? Where are the dwelling places He has prepared for us there?
Where is Jesus, that we can go and be with Him also?

... to be continued...

"@Dave M"
I hope this isn't too far off from what you had in mind in the OP?

I can see this going to more discussion about heaven, the new Jerusalem, even the new Heaven and new Earth.

 

[Dave M]

@B-A-C I am good on what ever the discussion leads to , great insight by many folks here. thanks for you thoughtful consideration though.