No commandments greater than these. How?

[At Peace]

noticed that in your last sentence you referred to the Lord as "my Lord". How about simply " to show how 'the' Lord was differentiating....." Just curious.

He is not the Lord of those who disobey Him.

 

[amadeus2]

I Could counter your question with 'name one sin that will separate us From God's love'.

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." I John 5:16-17

 

[amadeus2]

These are the kinds of comments that are a turn off to believers and unbelievers. Christians shouldn't portray themselves as being sinless.

Should we not portray ourselves as being Christ-like?

 

[Hekuran]

Yet another potentially interesting thread killed off by a completely unnecessary discussion about perfection. There are scores of active threads that deal directly with sinlessness. Why does this have to get cluttered up with the same?

I'm bored of reading the same arguments going around and around, and I am frustrated that other subjects are being suffocated.

 

[amadeus2]

If their teachings accommodate sin...they are of the devil.

So then are there people who move back and forth between pleasing God and not pleasing God? If, yes, what does God think about them?

See what I mean by "accommodating sin"?
The scripture IS saying we can live a perfect. sin free life...IF we are reborn of God's seed.

Yes, we can by following the lead of the Holy Spirit always. Have any of us quenched the Holy Spirit since we first were received His gift? If we did, did God immediately reject us permanently and completely? Consider the difference between King Saul and King David.

If that person had the Holy Spirit, they would know it is wrong before they did it.
And they wouldn't act on the temptation.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)

As we grow toward God we will be subject to temptations until we have overcome all of them as Jesus did. In the interim, we may slip [sin?] and when we do God will allow us time to surrender to Him again before invoking the final wages of sin [death] on us. This is the meaning of that verse. Yes, we should be improving, but as we do and before we overcome it all there may be times when we stumble and look away from God long enough to begin sinking into the ocean of the lost. The verse you quoted speaks of this. The example of it is seen when Peter was walking on the water until he looked away from Jesus to water under him. He was not lost because "he cried saying Lord help me" [Matt 14:30]

 

[Sue D.]

Since Satan Does know our weaknesses he Also knows how to make sin look Very good and Very attractive to us -- many times we Won't Want to say no -- even though we Do have the power of the Holy Spirit to keep us From the sin -- and That is where most of the problem comes from. And that which bothers One person won't bother another person.

For instance a born-again guy -- maybe even happily married -- sees a beautiful woman walking down the street with a very low cut top on or very short skirt -- since she's walking towards him it's hard to Not see her and notice her -- no problem -- but if he Looks at her and finds himself Admiring her looks -- then -- of Course he Shouldn't give in to the temptation To LOOK and even maybe Admire what he's seeing. But -- he's also very human and very 'male' -- and he Still loves his wife and he Still loves God -- That hasn't changed simply because he sees and Notices this attractive woman. So -- I guess the question would be -- what is considered Acting on the temptation -- taking that second look in admiration? or if he started to imagine what it would be like To 'be with her'?!

Back in the O.T. -- just as relavent then as today -- King David -- he not only Saw her, he had a servant go Get her -- even had sex with her and a baby and had her husband killed --- I mean talk about yielding to temptation. He Did it All and yet he repented and went on to be used by God. The guy was supposed to be out in the field with his men but chose Not to. So he was tempted and went ahead and gave into it Anyway. So -- does that give us an excuse To 'go ahead and sin Anyway' -- not really -- because there will Still be negative consequences to live with.

Satan is out to ruin any believer he can. And God is Always willing to forgive us -- a repentant heart -- but sometimes 'we' have a hard time forgiving ourselves. Satan Wants us to live in bondage even though we Do have God's forgiveness available.

And, yes, we are a Lot like Peter walking on the water -- as long as he kept his eyes on the Lord he was okay -- but as soon as he looked away -- he started sinking. Satan wants us to turn our eyes away from God Frequently. And there Will be a struggle with 'sin' even as believers Until we Are with Christ for eternity --meaning that either we'd be taken up with the rapture or we'd die -- absent from the body= present with the Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

Yet another potentially interesting thread killed off by a completely unnecessary discussion about perfection. There are scores of active threads that deal directly with sinlessness. Why does this have to get cluttered up with the same?

I'm bored of reading the same arguments going around and around, and I am frustrated that other subjects are being suffocated.

Is there a way to put a double like on this post?

That has been brought up several times, but no one seems to care.

 

[At Peace]

Yet another potentially interesting thread killed off by a completely unnecessary discussion about perfection. There are scores of active threads that deal directly with sinlessness. Why does this have to get cluttered up with the same?

I'm bored of reading the same arguments going around and around, and I am frustrated that other subjects are being suffocated.

How does obedience to God suffocate a discussion on "commandments"?

 

[At Peace]

So then are there people who move back and forth between pleasing God and not pleasing God? If, yes, what does God think about them?

The "displeasing" portion of their conduct is indicative of the seed they are born of. {1 John 3:10)

Yes, we can by following the lead of the Holy Spirit always. Have any of us quenched the Holy Spirit since we first were received His gift? If we did, did God immediately reject us permanently and completely? Consider the difference between King Saul and King David.

Repentance is available to all.
But more sin will manifest that the repentance was false.

As we grow toward God we will be subject to temptations until we have overcome all of them as Jesus did. In the interim, we may slip [sin?]

"Interim"?
You must mean..."As we think about one day serving God with our entire heart...we will commit sin".

and when we do God will allow us time to surrender to Him again

Had our surrender been true, there would be no need for another surrender.
You illustrate the double-mind of the lost.

before invoking the final wages of sin [death] on us. This is the meaning of that verse. Yes, we should be improving, but as we do and before we overcome it all there may be times when we stumble and look away from God long enough to begin sinking into the ocean of the lost. The verse you quoted speaks of this.

How do God's ALWAYS provided escapes from temptation apply to your thesis of failure?

The example of it is seen when Peter was walking on the water until he looked away from Jesus to water under him. He was not lost because "he cried saying Lord help me" [Matt 14:30)

Thank God we don't live in the OT anymore.
Thank God for the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism and the Holy Ghost...together, capable of maintaining the righteousness of God's children.
Thanks be to God for all we need to keep loving God above all else and our neighbor as our self.

 

[Hekuran]

The "displeasing" portion of their conduct is indicative of the seed they are born of. {1 John 3:10)



Repentance is available to all.
But more sin will manifest that the repentance was false.



"Interim"?
You must mean..."As we think about one day serving God with our entire heart...we will commit sin".


Had our surrender been true, there would be no need for another surrender.
You illustrate the double-mind of the lost.


How do God's ALWAYS provided escapes from temptation apply to your thesis of failure?


Thank God we don't live in the OT anymore.
Thank God for the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism and the Holy Ghost...together, capable of maintaining the righteousness of God's children.
Thanks be to God for all we need to keep loving God above all else and our neighbor as our self.

Still off topic. Please stop.

 

[Sue D.]

@At Peace -- you said "Thank God we don't live in the O.T. anymore -- 'we' never Have lived in the O.T. times --only those alive back then Did. Salvation was obtained back then the same way it's received Now. The Ten Commandments were given to us to show us our need For the cross. Because it's Impossible to keep All the commandments All the time -- and it would suggest that salvation is works' based.

You speak of the 'gifts' of repentance from sin and baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit). And I'm curious as to Why you use the term "Ghost" rather than Spirit. And that those two together maintaining the righteousness of God's children.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".
The 'gift' is eternal life through Jesus Christ. There is no mention of repentance in that verse. Repentance Is important -- the gifts Of repentance -- a gift is something someone gives to another person. So -- God gives us repentance?

And the gift of baptism of the Holy Spirit?! The baptism of / indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Are they the same thing or two different things. Doesn't Scripture teach that the baptism of Is when the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us.

Maintaining the righteousness of God's people -- through repentance and baptism --interesting. That almost sounds like a form of good works. Through repentance -- that sounds like a person Has sinned and needs to repent of it.

Because of the cross --God sees believers Through the blood of Christ. we are Justified -- just-as-if-I'd-never-sinned.

It Also sounds like a person Can repent of a sin , but if the person sins again -- a different sin -- then their repentance wasn't genuine.

Sorry, but some of the concepts you present are bothersome.

And, yes, 'this' is off topic -- I've been pursuing it because -- to Me -- it Is important to try to 'straighten out'.

And I'm pretty close to 'throwing in the towel' to this line of conversation.

Back to "No commandment great that these. How?"

We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul and our neighbor as our self.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Is there a way to put a double like on this post?

That has been brought up several times, but no one seems to care.

Thank you brother @B-A-C and brother @Hekuran

Many apologies, I had tried to divert the thread back to topic a few pages back...but over the last few days have lost track a bit.

To all posters on this thread here is the OP.
Please stay on topic.


#1Fragrant Grace, Jun 22, 2018
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Matk 12:30-31

This has been on my heart for some time and I have been prompted by brother Dave M"s prayer thread.
(Thank you @Dave M )

How do we do this?

How do we know we love the Lord with all our soul mind and strength?

How do we love our neighbour as much as we love ourselves?

Surely this is something we all fail in many times?
I'm sure I put self first a lot of the time above my neighbour?

How can the great commandments in theses verses be applied Spiritually and practically to our lives?


Tagging all who have posted here as a prompt.

@Bendito @amadeus2 @Curtis @Sue D. @Dave M @At Peace @KingJ @BLACKSHEEP

 

[Hekuran]

Here's a thought that came from a conversation with a good colleague yesterday. He was asking me about how to approach doing interviews to capture the stories of people who have recently become Christians. After having given a few ideas I said something along the lines of - most people are so unaccustomed to having someone sit down just to listen to them and give their full attention that they open up completely and give you what you need without much prompt...

It's true, most of us very rarely get heard by someone who is completely attentive - and when it happens it feels like a great luxury.

That's going to be my next step in loving my neighbour as myself, to listen to others without trying to push my agenda or to have my own needs met in a conversation. Just to let others voice what they have to say, and to do my utmost to value it.

 

[KingJ]

I had a chat with a Muslim friend about this topic. We both came to the conclusion from rational thought that loving others was putting others before yourself. Doing unto them as you want done unto you.

What was interesting was how they grasped that loving God is then doing those things that are unseen. Like praying more then five times a day.

I pray they are one step closer to a conversion.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

That's going to be my next step in loving my neighbour as myself, to listen to others without trying to push my agenda or to have my own needs met in a conversation. Just to let others voice what they have to say, and to do my utmost to value it.

Praise the Lord!
Thats a beautiful way of showing love in a gentle unassuming non pushy way.
I pray it will reveal any needs to you in a way that you can then show your love and care futher.

I pray they are one step closer to a conversion.

Yes...praying that the love of Jesus in you will shine through....and that your muslim friend will turn to the one true God.

 

[At Peace]

Still off topic. Please stop.

I simply answered a question regarding the topic.

 

[Sue D.]

Praise the Lord!
Thats a beautiful way of showing love in a gentle unassuming non pushy way.
I pray it will reveal any needs to you in a way that you can then show your love and care futher.



Yes...praying that the love of Jesus in you will shine through....and that your muslim friend will turn to the one true God.

Actually I have a question -- is Private Messaging available?

 

[At Peace]

@At Peace -- you said "Thank God we don't live in the O.T. anymore -- 'we' never Have lived in the O.T. times --only those alive back then Did.

The Jews are still living in the OT.
So are all those who keep breaking the Law.
They are stuck on a never ending sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent track.
Just as the Jews are.

Salvation was obtained back then the same way it's received Now. The Ten Commandments were given to us to show us our need For the cross. Because it's Impossible to keep All the commandments All the time -- and it would suggest that salvation is works' based.

Not at all.
They were men who walked after the flesh, we can walk in the Spirit.

You speak of the 'gifts' of repentance from sin and baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) And I'm curious as to Why you use the term "Ghost" rather than Spirit.

What's the difference?

And that those two together maintaining the righteousness of God's children.

Yes, we are given the ability, gift, of turning from sin.
We are also gifted with the ability to take part in the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Christ..."to walk in newness of life"...rebirth.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".
The 'gift' is eternal life through Jesus Christ. There is no mention of repentance in that verse. Repentance Is important -- the gifts Of repentance -- a gift is something someone gives to another person. So -- God gives us repentance?

Yes.
It is written..."When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:18)

And the gift of baptism of the Holy Spirit?! The baptism of / indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Are they the same thing or two different things. Doesn't Scripture teach that the (Spirit) baptism of Is when the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us.

They are the same thing.

Maintaining the righteousness of God's people -- through repentance and baptism --interesting. That almost sounds like a form of good works. Through repentance -- that sounds like a person Has sinned and needs to repent of it.

The "turn from" sin comes first.
Baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins comes second. (Acts 2:38)

Because of the cross --God sees believers Through the blood of Christ. we are Justified -- just-as-if-I'd-never-sinned.

I've met enough folks who use the "hidden by the blood" doctrine to keep on sinning.
Will you please provide the scriptures that assert your POV?

It Also sounds like a person Can repent of a sin , but if the person sins again -- a different sin -- then their repentance wasn't genuine

We are not repenting of each different kind of sin as it crops up.
We are to "turn from" ALL sin at one time, and forever..
It is written..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)

Sorry, but some of the concepts you present are bothersome.
And, yes, 'this' is off topic -- I've been pursuing it because -- to Me -- it Is important to try to 'straighten out'.
And I'm pretty close to 'throwing in the towel' to this line of conversation.
Back to "No commandment great that these. How?"

We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul and our neighbor as our self.

As per the OP.
Have you been able to accomplish that with the doctrines you espouse here?

 

[At Peace]

Thank you brother @B-A-C and brother @Hekuran

Many apologies, I had tried to divert the thread back to topic a few pages back...but over the last few days have lost track a bit.

To all posters on this thread here is the OP.
Please stay on topic.


#1Fragrant Grace, Jun 22, 2018
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Matk 12:30-31

This has been on my heart for some time and I have been prompted by brother Dave M"s prayer thread.
(Thank you @Dave M )

How do we do this?

How do we know we love the Lord with all our soul mind and strength?

How do we love our neighbour as much as we love ourselves?

Surely this is something we all fail in many times?
I'm sure I put self first a lot of the time above my neighbour?

How can the great commandments in theses verses be applied Spiritually and practically to our lives?


Tagging all who have posted here as a prompt.

@Bendito @amadeus2 @Curtis @Sue D. @Dave M @At Peace @KingJ @BLACKSHEEP

I'm pretty sure I have covered everything necessary to following, no, obeying those two great commandments
But they keep being labeled "Off Topic".
Go figure?

 

[Hekuran]

I had a chat with a Muslim friend about this topic. We both came to the conclusion from rational thought that loving others was putting others before yourself. Doing unto them as you want done unto you.

What was interesting was how they grasped that loving God is then doing those things that are unseen. Like praying more then five times a day.

I pray they are one step closer to a conversion.

Great to hear.

I'm not one of the all 'religions lead to God' types, but in my conversations with Muslims about values and faith, worship and prayer, I've found we have more in common than divides.

Also, I'm trying to do a bit of informal investigation into how Muslims convert to Christianity. Some have a direct revelation, others have been drawn in my an experience of true Christian love. I've not yet come across anyone who has first been persuaded intellectually...

Keep on loving your neighbour