Yep.
Folks say they are saved already, when our redemption is still in the future.
No commandments greater than these. How?
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Folks say they are saved already, when our redemption is still in the future.
Bendito
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Of course you must endure to the end. But lets look at it in the context of the speaker...Jesus Himself... In my favorite version. CJB
16 “Pay attention! I am sending you out like sheep among wolves, so be as prudent as snakes and as harmless as doves. 17 Be on guard, for there will be people who will hand you over to the local Sanhedrins and flog you in their synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as a testimony to them and to the Goyim. 19 But when they bring you to trial, do not worry about what to say or how to say it; when the time comes, you will be given what you should say. 20 For it will not be just you speaking, but the Spirit of your heavenly Father speaking through you.
21 “A brother will betray his brother to death, and a father his child; children will turn against their parents and have them put to death. 22 Everyone will hate you because of me, but whoever holds out till the end will be preserved from harm. 23 When you are persecuted in one town, run away to another. Yes indeed; I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Isra’el before the Son of Man comes.
There is the context...Stick with the context of the writer (speaker) Hang in there and you will not be harmed. So your eternal salvation has nothing to do with wha Jesus was talking about....You took a single verse out of context and built a doctrine on it. Don't do that! It creates a cage for you to live in.
Bendito
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Out of context.....
Ephesians 4:29-32 (CJB)
29 Let no harmful language come from your mouth, only good words that are helpful in meeting the need, words that will benefit those who hear them. 30 Don’t cause grief to God’s Ruach HaKodesh, for he has stamped you as his property until the day of final redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, violent assertiveness and slander, along with all spitefulness. 32 Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted; and forgive each other, just as in the Messiah God has also forgiven you.
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Good Morning @At Peace
Going slightly off topic here:
Thank you for your reply.
I think I am beginning to understand where you are coming from and I feel quite sad.
At first I thought you considered yourself saved and sinless above everyone else here
But you are not even assured of your own salvation
Your life must be a battle.
Your salvation is assured as brother @Bendito said.
Yea let God be true and every man be a liar.....Romans 3:4
Gods gift of salvation is absolutely free.. Many complicate it by adding or subtracting from the true Gospel message.
There is absolutely nothing we can do to merit salvation, or even help to save ourselves. If there was something we could do then Jesus wouldn't have had to die upon the cross for our sins.
A changed life is a result of the indwelling Holy Spirit.....the fruit of the Spirit in our lives
The flesh still battles against the Spirit
As Christians we can still quench and grieve the Spirit.
But we can never earn our salvation through works
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 4:3-6
Greetings,
if you/we/anyone will continue reading from the quoted verses (Romans 4:3-6) all the way through to the end of Chapter 9, not leaving anything out, but taking it ALl in, we get to the end of Chapter nine where it says/it is written,
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:31-33
which, if you have indeed read through, you will understand that the Apostle was saying, (my paraphrase) , 'they believed that if they kept he Law, they would receive the promise, rather than believing the promise (because Faithful is He Who has promised) and thereby keeping the Law'.
It is a fine line but also a broad one. Much like the sharpest sword is so very fine at it's edge but the edge is followed through with the full width of the blade.
If you DO read through, you will get a better handle on what the faith of Abraham as in Romans 4 verses 3-6 is about. That is, for those who prefer to keep things in context. (probably best to start a bit earlier than verses 3-6, also).
Bless you ....><>
if you/we/anyone will continue reading from the quoted verses (Romans 4:3-6) all the way through to the end of Chapter 9, not leaving anything out, but taking it ALl in, we get to the end of Chapter nine where it says/it is written,
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9:31-33
which, if you have indeed read through, you will understand that the Apostle was saying, (my paraphrase) , 'they believed that if they kept he Law, they would receive the promise, rather than believing the promise (because Faithful is He Who has promised) and thereby keeping the Law'.
It is a fine line but also a broad one. Much like the sharpest sword is so very fine at it's edge but the edge is followed through with the full width of the blade.
If you DO read through, you will get a better handle on what the faith of Abraham as in Romans 4 verses 3-6 is about. That is, for those who prefer to keep things in context. (probably best to start a bit earlier than verses 3-6, also).
Bless you ....><>
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Thank you @Br. Bear for your gentle admonition
I already have indeed read around these verses......but admittedly only quoted a small passage.
Why would the apostles need to "endure till the end" but not us?
And why did you start your post in agreement with me, then change your POV?
What happens to those who don't "Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, violent assertiveness and slander, along with all spitefulness. Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted; and forgive each other, just as in the Messiah God has also forgiven you." ?
Are they still "stamped"?
Bendito
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YES!!!
Bendito
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What did the Word say? They are still saved. Part of the bride? Probably not, butt still saved
Indeed it is, and against a powerful enemy with my soul at stake.
Fortunately I have the weapons to fight with...(Eph 6:11-17)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Where is the "assurance" some write of?
There is no salvation to those who only pretend to love God above all else and their neighbor as them self.
Yup, The gift is there for the taking, but we must still "take it".
And that has obligations, doesn't it?
Believe, repent of sin, get baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins, love God above all else, love our neighbor as our self, endure till the end?
Actually, we are given the gift of the Holy Ghost AFTER we change our lives.
It is written..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
The Spirit is given after repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins...except in the one instance of Cornelius.
I will refer you to the "twelve at Ephesus".
The "flesh" has no power in those who have "crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts" (Gal 5:24)
Hence the war.
If our salvation is assured, why worry about quenching the Spirit that some think is "along for the ride" into wickedness"?
Nope, we can't earn our salvation by the works of the Mosaic Law.
As Paul frequently told the converted in Galatia and elsewhere.
But we can sure loose our salvation.
One lie will do the trick.
Once you manifest from whose seed you are born of...judgement will be quick and final.
Amen.
I sure hope you aren't using this scripture to accommodate sin in the alleged "believers".
That was...perfect!
Not the bride, but still saved?
What sect teaches that?
Bendito
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My friend...I did not change my point of view at all..though I do suspect you are locked in on a thought and find it difficult to see past that thought....What I said was....Context....What was Jesus talking about? Salvation? No. He was talking about HIS people pushing through on doing what we are supposed to do in our lives...Ministering! Push through and we are protected..Our salvation is already a done deal...Jesus was talking about perks of the job, if I may put it that way.
KingJ
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What we must not do is confuse the two. Loving God is something separate from loving others. Loving God must be done first and foremost. Loving others, is the second commandment.
So it kind of does make for a really good discussion. One would think loving others is loving God. When it is only a part of loving God.
The Christian 101 answer to loving God is obeying His commandments John 14:15. Which is true, but we need to look closer. What are His commandments?
If we start at Genesis as the whole bible is God breathed 2 Tim 3:16 up to Paul's teaching, we find many commandments that have to do with loving others and then many that have to do with loving God. Example: Every commandment like, do not steal, do not murder, do not commit adultery, disciplining and exhorting a brother or sister has to do with loving others. How can we steal from God? How can we murder God? God wrote these commandments for our sake. Not His.
So what commandments then have to with loving God? Surely we have to fully grasp this. More so then 'murder', as loving God is the first and foremost commandment.
A few that come to mind in no specific order.
1. Sexual immorality. Sexual immorality can involve consenting adults, but it is pulling the middle finger to God. God's wrath was on Sodom and Gomorrah. There was no 'Sodom's wrath was on Sodom'. Or 'Gomorrah's wrath was on Sodom'. God's wrath was on Sodom.
2. Idolatry. We need to judge ourselves for all forms of this. We serve a jealous God. The Hebrews and the golden calf did not hurt anyone. Yet they all died instantly after Moses conceded to God. God's wrath was on them. Nobody today would sentence a person guilty of worshipping idols to 15 years in prison. God, however would have you stoned to death for it in the OT.
3. Prayer. Ask any married person who loves their spouse / wants to be loved by their spouse as to how important conversation and 'close time' is. We don't say we love someone and then not spend time with them.
4. Repentance. Nobody sees our heart, only God. The law may ordain that a murderer be stoned to death. God sees a heart that repents and loves Him. God will welcome that murderer into heaven. When we apply effort to judging ourselves. To working out our salvation in fear and trembling. To grasping we serve a God that hates what is wicked and loves what is good. We are showing genuine love for God Rom 12:9 Genuine love is to hate what is wicked and cling to what is good.
5. Martyr for Christ. There is no other way to make your commitment clearer to God John 15:13. If you are able to die for Him, I am certain you receive the biggest crown possible in heaven. Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown.
6. Looking after your family. Including Christian family. 1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.
7. Love thy neighbor as thyself. Part and parcel of loving God is the second commandment. As God love us all. We do hurt God when we hurt one-another. What is key to grasp though, is that this is not putting others on the same footing as ourselves. This commandment is fulfilled by doing unto others as we would want them to do unto us. One drop of water, two people in the desert, who gets the water? The Christian goes thirsty.
Bendito
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Look at the verses about "The bride has MADE HERSELF READY; the parable of the ten virgins, five of whom made themselves ready, and five who did not and had to go get more oil; verses to do with the old and the new to make one new man...; We need to push through and make ourselves ready...Ready for what? Ready for the groom. Not ready to get saved.
As to what sect? Come on! Its in the bible...The teaching that all Christians are a part of the bride is churchianity doctrine. The WORD says the bride is the one who has made herself ready...
Curtis
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Eternal life is NOT some future event, it has already been given, and even that before the foundation of the world!! (2 Tim 1:9)
1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Curtis
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Outward actions mean nothing if God himself is not the one doing the work!! This is called "fake" love! It looks good on the outside but gains nothing!!
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
