perfect?

[Dave M]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Dave M
Good question.
In reading this Chapter in Corinthians, which is wonderful to me, for it speaks of the Love of God, agape.

I can only answer with the little wisdom, knowledge and understanding God has given me as meaning: God's Love realized.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Curtis]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

I will give you my opinion, and I do believe I have the Spirit of God.

The scriptures tell us that Jesus gave certain gifts unto man for the "perfecting" of the saints when he ascended into Heaven.

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These gifts, which are people were to be in existence "until" we all come in the knowledge of the Son of God unto a "perfect" man. Once this "perfect man" comes then all the ministry gifts will end.
That is why it says in the verse you quoted that "prophecies" will fail, "tongues" will cease, "knowledge" will vanish away. All these things are used in ministry today to bring the Church unto this perfect man, and when he comes they will no longer be needed, which is why they will be done away with.

The "perfect" has nothing to do with becoming sinless, it has to do with becoming "mature". Another scripture that reveals this to us is found here.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

The Apostle Paul is talking about becoming "perfect" which really means "mature". Just to make sure we do not under understand, or misinterpret what he is talking about he uses the analogy of a child going from being immature to maturity.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

We all start out looking through a glass darkly, but eventually as we grow in the Lord we begin to see more clearly until we see face to face.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[Dave M]

@Curtis I like that, so basically you are saying it is Jesus Christ return, funny that is exactly what I suggested to a freind earlier today, but he insisted on it being the bible and that is why the gifts are not longer in use today as they were in the day of of the apostles.

 

[At Peace]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

The new heavens and earth...maybe?
The era post judgement.

 

[Born Again 2004]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

• Love never fails and it endures in Heaven
• Prophecies will cease ( because we die)
• Tongues will cease ( because we die)
• Knowledge will disappear ( because we die)
• Knowledge, we only know a little ( not all) , we are not perfect yet. ( not until we die)
• Because we are not perfect now, we can only prophesy a little and not completely
• But a time will come were our imperfection will cease and our perfection will come when we die and spiritually go before God, look at him face to face and He will perfect us, like Jesus and, we will know all perfectly, as well has we are known by God!

 

[Curtis]

For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

The reason why we know in "part", and prophesy in "part" is because spiritual learning happens in "parts". Just like putting a jigsaw puzzle together, as more parts are put together an image becomes more clearer then when we first started.
The Holy Spirit reveals to us these parts, that allows us to "compare" other parts together to assemble an image.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[D_Martin]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

yea:
OED
1. Thoroughly made, formed, done, performed, carried out, accomplished
b. Of offspring: Fully formed.
c. Of full age; either = grown up, adult, or of an age legally competent for a specified function.
2. a. Fully accomplished; thoroughly versed, trained, skilled, or conversant.

hence the definition used by the British at the time KJV was translated.


not some American redefinition of a flawless concept, biblically perfect is a fulfilled completed concept

for example:


Gen_6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Noah was tenth generation from Adam and Abram was tenth gen from Noah. so Noah was fulfilled or complete in his generations from Adam in God's sight. and ten gen.'s more is Abraham which shows that is true.

Gen_17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

and the Lord is telling Abram be thou "fulfilled" "complete" according to what the Lord his God sees as Abraham fulfilled. Abraham was soon to have a son that is a chosen of God.

 

[Born Again 2004]

The new heavens and earth...maybe?
The era post judgement.

This will be the 4th time, why don't you answer my question?:
1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

• What kind of love is this?

 

[B-A-C]

I know "Christian" that have told me.. The reason I got saved wasn't so I could live a sinless life, it was so I could
still sin all I want, and I still go to heaven".

On the other hand, there are some here on TalkJesus who say "The reason you become a Christian, is so you can
never sin again ever".

I see neither one of these extremes in the Bible.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I know "Christian" that have told me.. The reason I got saved wasn't so I could live a sinless life, it was so I could
still sin all I want, and I still go to heaven".

• You keep saying this. I must live a sheltered life because I have never seen this in or outside of T.J.!
• This is no Christian at all!

On the other hand, there are some here on TalkJesus who say "The reason you become a Christian, is so you can
never sin again ever".

• Maybe a Christian but never the less, delusional!

I see neither one of these extremes in the Bible.

• Called to be perfect but, otherwise, agreed!

 

[At Peace]

This will be the 4th time, why don't you answer my question?:
1 Corinthians 13: 4-7 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

• What kind of love is this?

I answered this in a different thread, but here it is again...
THAT is the kind of love demonstrated by the truly repentant.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I answered this in a different thread, but here it is again...
THAT is the kind of love demonstrated by the truly repentant.

And, I will ask this again,...do you perform this type of love 24/7, every day, perfectly, all your life.

 

[At Peace]

I know "Christian" that have told me.. The reason I got saved wasn't so I could live a sinless life, it was so I could
still sin all I want, and I still go to heaven".

They are not really Christians then, are they?

On the other hand, there are some here on TalkJesus who say "The reason you become a Christian, is so you can
never sin again ever".

Good to hear.
I became a Christian so I could quit hurting myself and those around me.
So far-so good. Thanks be to God!

I see neither one of these extremes in the Bible.

Try your search with the words "remain obedient to God" instead of "never sin again".
Then read Psalms.

 

[At Peace]

And, I will ask this again,...do you perform this type of love 24/7, every day, perfectly, all your life.

Yes, I do...thanks be to God.
And thanks be to God for His gift of repentance from sin, and the gift of rebirth at baptism into Christ's death; so we all can manifest that kind of love.
It is our "reasonable service". (Rom 12:1)

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Then read Psalms.

Out of the depths have I cried unto Thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice: let Thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If Thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?

But there is forgiveness with Thee, that Thou mayest be feared. I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in His Word do I hope. My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with Him is plenteous redemption. And He shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. Psalm 130

But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

Have we considered the Bride without the Groom?

sometimes we can't see the wood (or forest) for the trees. Reminds me of the blind man who saw men as trees walking after the first touch from our Saviour.

consider the Bride without the Groom and it (the words in your Bible) might make clear sense in the intended meaning?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

1Corinthians 13:8-10

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
anyone know what perfect is here this scripture is referring to?

The surrounding verses make the context crystal clear.

1 Cor 13:9-12 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Verse 9 speaks to the 'part'. We prophecy part because we only know part. When we are with God we will know in 'full' (as full as can be), verse 12 speaks to that. Both shed light on verse 10.

For me it speaks to our current state. Our weak body, our limited knowledge, our restrictions on earth. That which is perfect, is the state God wants us in. Perfect is not what we consider perfect. Perfect is a moving target with us. God's perfect is a state He has envisioned for us to be in for eternity. Like the name He will give us. It is our name. It is our perfect name.

It is important to grasp that when God says ''perfect'' it is not what we assume is ''perfect''. God made lions that eat lambs, put the devil on earth, put the ebola virus on earth and said ''It is good / perfect''.

 

[B-A-C]

It is important to grasp that when God says ''perfect'' it is not what we assume is ''perfect''. God made lions that eat lambs, put the devil on earth, put the ebola virus on earth and said ''It is good / perfect''.

Hmmm... you may be right, but I wonder...

I still think perfect means... ummm... well, perfect.

I don't think there is anything wrong with lions eating lambs, wolves eating deer, and men eating beef.

I wonder, had the devil already betrayed God when God said "it is good"? I wonder if the ebola virus came with the thistles and thorns when the ground was cursed?
Was creation still "perfect" after the fall of man? If so... why does there need to be a new earth and new heavens?

 

[Curtis]

The Apostle Paul tells us exactly what the "perfect" is in next verse......

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

It is as always spiritual growth going from a "child" to a full grown "man". (maturity)
A "perfect" man is a "mature man".

 

[At Peace]

The Apostle Paul tells us exactly what the "perfect" is in next verse......

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

It is as always spiritual growth going from a "child" to a full grown "man". (maturity)
A "perfect" man is a "mature man".

From your use of this scripture, we can tell you do believe Paul was perfect, as he was no child.