Who is the Bride?

[Bendito]

Brother Bendito, how do you know it was Yah's Ruach? (spirit). I highly doubt Yah gave these gifts to him, there's many foul spirits that masquerade as *Holy Spirit*, if the spirit doesn't lead him to obedience and understanding of the Word, then it's a false or kundalini spirit. You can see this spirit mostly in charismatic movements, new age stuff, and in the churches too.

Excuse me? Marek, Would Yah tell us that by bowing our knee to just any spirit would give us the authority to become His children? I think not! But what does the Word say? Read John 1:6-14.... He (Yeshua) came to His own homeland, but His own people would not receive Him...but to as many who did receive Him (Yeshua) to those who put their trust in His person, His power, He gave the right (authority) to become children of God.... Yah did not mention a spirit of any kind but was taking about the SON..
I have many years experience with the spirit world and have experience with foul spirits..They have no place in a Christians life, I agree but just as Father was not talking about spirits in these verses, neither was I....

So now I wonder where you are speaking from.....

 

[Bendito]

Excuse me? Marek, I quoted the Word...Would Father say, "Whosoever puts their trust in a false spirit, to them I give the right to become my children?" Really.
But what does the Word say?


Excuse me? Marek, Would Yah tell us that by bowing our knee to just any spirit would give us the authority to become His children? I think not! But what does the Word say? Read John 1:6-14.... He (Yeshua) came to His own homeland, but His own people would not receive Him...but to as many who did receive Him (Yeshua) to those who put their trust in His person, His power, He gave the right (authority) to become children of God.... Yah did not mention a spirit of any kind but was taking about the SON..
I have many years experience with the spirit world and have experience with foul spirits..They have no place in a Christians life, I agree but just as Father was not talking about spirits in these verses, neither was I....

So now I wonder where you are speaking from.....

Hmmm I did that again.....I haven't figures that little problem out....I seem to overlap posts and have to slap myself...Can anyone tell me how I do this? and how to stop?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hmmm I did that again.....I haven't figures that little problem out....I seem to overlap posts and have to slap myself...Can anyone tell me how I do this? and how to stop?

Maybe doing a preview before posting might help.

Also, lease don't slap yourself. Someone seeing you doing this might believe you to be of the sect who are 'flagellants" as a form of "penitence".

Don't want to confuse the folks into thinking that's okay!

YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

Maybe doing a preview before posting might help.

Also, lease don't slap yourself. Someone seeing you doing this might believe you to be of the sect who are 'flagellants" as a form of "penitence".

Don't want to confuse the folks into thinking that's okay!

YBIC
Nick
<><

LOLOL Ok I won't slap myself....I did preview...someone told me once what I did when I overlapped like that but hey! I'm an old guy...I forgot

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bendito
Not that old my brother!
At your age, my father welcomed a bouncing baby boy. Me!


Not quite Abraham, but he was getting there!

 

[Bendito]

@Bendito
Not that old my brother!
At your age, my father welcomed a bouncing baby boy. Me!


Not quite Abraham, but he was getting there!

Well he has my utmost respect....and my endless gratitude for giving YOU! to the world

 

[Christ4Ever]

You'll be able to thank him in person one day. Just not anytime soon I pray!

He was drawn to the Lord in his 60's. Thank you God! My mom's faithfulness to him and most especially to the Lord in waiting for him to finally ask. Why do you stay with me after all the wrong I have done and brought into your life? Yes exactly right brother! This is when she shared God's great love through Jesus Christ with him. The Gospel!! Alleluia Alleluia Alleluia thank you Lord!

To me a most beautiful of stories. God's patience and my mom's faithfulness!!!

Working out. Hard to type on my phone with one finger. Hehehe

Love you brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Waggles]

Can someone please show me where the Bible says that the bride is the church in general?

In the Old Testament there are numerous verses describing God as the husband to Israel - marriage - and then refers to idolatry as adultery.

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Matthew 25:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:25-27

1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you [the saints at Corinth] with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you [the Church] to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin [bride] to Christ [the bridegroom].
2Corinthians 11:1-2

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him
who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:4

19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Mark 2:19-20 Jesus referring to himself here as the bridegroom

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:7-8

The bride is the Church - the saints - those who will rise up to meet Jesus in the air at his triumphant and glorious second coming.
As to how embracing or inclusive this population is - belongs to Jesus. When Paul and other Apostles write about the Church
and the saints, they are, of course, referring exclusively to the first century gospel [described best in Acts].

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Timothy 4:16-17

The Church [bride] that will rise up to be for ever with the Lord [bridegroom] at the marriage feast (or marriage supper) will be
those who Jesus deems to be worthy of resurrection from death or instantly transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
I hope that I am included, and pray that I keep my walk true and faithful to the gospel.

 

[Dave M]

this article may help you understand
Why Do You Say the Bride of Christ is the Church? - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries

Why do you say the Bride of Christ is the Church when it’s actually the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:2, 9-11)?

Answer from an EPM volunteer, approved by Randy:
In some passages the bride is the Church. See Ephesians 5:25-27—the imagery is the presentation to Himself (Christ) the radiant Church in the same way a husband is presented a wife.

Also see 2 Corinthians 11:2-3 where Paul relates the Church to Christ’s bride. So, when we come to Revelation 19-21, where reference is made to the “wedding of the Lamb”, the bride of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7) and the wife of the Lamb (Rev. 21:9), it is clear that this bride is the New Jerusalem.

Now it is not absolutely clear exactly what this city is. There are a number of views. You might want to look at the book called, Revelation: Four Views, a Parallel Commentary by Steve Gregg to see arguments for and against Charles Capps’ position.

Galatians 4:26 actually relates the New Jerusalem to a woman. So which is the metaphor? The bride or the city? Or are they both metaphors for a new covenant or people? It is definitely debatable and the answers may not be known for certain this side of Heaven.

Randy’s comments:
A people and a place are often identified virtually interchangeably, both in the Bible and in modern culture. e.g. Jerusalem or Babylon or Portland are used in the sense of a place, and also a people (“Jerusalem suffered at the hands of Babylon,” or “Portland is a liberal city”).

So is the bride of Christ the Church (a people) or the New Jerusalem, a place where people will live? The answer is both. It’s not either/or, it’s both/and. A people and the place where that people dwell are inseparably linked. That’s even true of God and Heaven. The prodigal son said “I have sinned against Heaven.” Of course, that was the same as saying “I have sinned against God.”

It is a false assumption that the bride of Christ must be either the church (God’s people) or the New Jerusalem. In fact, according to Scripture it is both.

 

[Dave M]

this is really good study on the church as a future bride for Christ

 

[amadeus2]

Well My point is....The doctrines all say that the church is the bride, but I cannot find where the Bible says that....The bible says the bride is the believers. So.....If you know how to change the title...go for it. LOL

Do all of the doctrines say that? I don't believe so, for that is not what I believe and many of those with whom I fellowship and attend services would agree with me.

I do not believe that the Church is the Bride. Rather that Bride is the "wheel in the middle of the wheel" [from Ezek 1:16]; the Bride is taken out of the Church. The Bride is perhaps the clouds which come with Him [Rev 1:7]. If the Bride is taken out, are there any left who have hope? I believe that there are [the rest of the Church], but that is my belief and I don't have all of the answers and some of my answers may prove to be in error.

Back to who or what is the Church: That is a good starting place and would likely include any with a measure real belief in Jesus. [What is real belief? Probably I would not include in it what those devils believe while trembling (from James 2:19)]

Consider these verses:

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

The undefiled one is the Bride, but who are the queens, the concubines and virgins without number?

"Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests." Matt 22:8-10

Guests were invited, but while he Bride needed no invitation, would she not along with the Bridegroom would have guests in attendance? Who now were the guests who were worthy, but not a part of the Bride?

 

[Bendito]

Thank you It sounds interesting, but it really does not line up with the original question....That being...scriptures that say all of the church is the bride? So far, I find only verses that say the bride is 'those that believe, and make themselves ready' So where does the whole church come in? Does the bride come out of the church?

Just so you know, my friend....I did read your post on the bride and it was interesting...It seems to say the entire born again population is the bride....But there are no bible verses that say this will be so...There are many verses that say what God's will is, but we know that we know that God will not circumvent our will...I am born again, but if I choose not to be part of the bride, God will not force me.

 

[Marek]

Just so you know, my friend....I did read your post on the bride and it was interesting...It seems to say the entire born again population is the bride....But there are no bible verses that say this will be so...There are many verses that say what God's will is, but we know that we know that God will not circumvent our will...I am born again, but if I choose not to be part of the bride, God will not force me.

Thank you! remember the ten virgins (foolish and the wise, disobedient and obedient)

 

[Bendito]

Do all of the doctrines say that? I don't believe so, for that is not what I believe and many of those with whom I fellowship and attend services would agree with me.

I do not believe that the Church is the Bride. Rather that Bride is the "wheel in the middle of the wheel" [from Ezek 1:16]; the Bride is taken out of the Church. The Bride is perhaps the clouds which come with Him [Rev 1:7]. If the Bride is taken out, are there any left who have hope? I believe that there are [the rest of the Church], but that is my belief and I don't have all of the answers and some of my answers may prove to be in error.

Back to who or what is the Church: That is a good starting place and would likely include any with a measure real belief in Jesus. [What is real belief? Probably I would not include in it what those devils believe while trembling (from James 2:19)]

Consider these verses:

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

The undefiled one is the Bride, but who are the queens, the concubines and virgins without number?

"Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests." Matt 22:8-10

Guests were invited, but while he Bride needed no invitation, would she not along with the Bridegroom would have guests in attendance? Who now were the guests who were worthy, but not a part of the Bride?

Well Amadeus, It seems that we agree..though I don't know about that wheel within the wheel part. I see that wheel as something totally different...(and something that is seriously controversial in this group). But yes, we are agreed that the bride is to come out of the church....The woman who gives birth to the man child is the church and the manchild is the One New Man

In the Old Testament there are numerous verses describing God as the husband to Israel - marriage - and then refers to idolatry as adultery.

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Matthew 25:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:25-27

1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you [the saints at Corinth] with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you [the Church] to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin [bride] to Christ [the bridegroom].
2Corinthians 11:1-2

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him
who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:4

19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?
as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
Mark 2:19-20 Jesus referring to himself here as the bridegroom

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:7-8

The bride is the Church - the saints - those who will rise up to meet Jesus in the air at his triumphant and glorious second coming.
As to how embracing or inclusive this population is - belongs to Jesus. When Paul and other Apostles write about the Church
and the saints, they are, of course, referring exclusively to the first century gospel [described best in Acts].

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Timothy 4:16-17

The Church [bride] that will rise up to be for ever with the Lord [bridegroom] at the marriage feast (or marriage supper) will be
those who Jesus deems to be worthy of resurrection from death or instantly transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
I hope that I am included, and pray that I keep my walk true and faithful to the gospel.

Do all of the doctrines say that? I don't believe so, for that is not what I believe and many of those with whom I fellowship and attend services would agree with me.

I do not believe that the Church is the Bride. Rather that Bride is the "wheel in the middle of the wheel" [from Ezek 1:16]; the Bride is taken out of the Church. The Bride is perhaps the clouds which come with Him [Rev 1:7]. If the Bride is taken out, are there any left who have hope? I believe that there are [the rest of the Church], but that is my belief and I don't have all of the answers and some of my answers may prove to be in error.

Back to who or what is the Church: That is a good starting place and would likely include any with a measure real belief in Jesus. [What is real belief? Probably I would not include in it what those devils believe while trembling (from James 2:19)]

Consider these verses:

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.

My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

The undefiled one is the Bride, but who are the queens, the concubines and virgins without number?

"Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests." Matt 22:8-10

Guests were invited, but while he Bride needed no invitation, would she not along with the Bridegroom would have guests in attendance? Who now were the guests who were worthy, but not a part of the Bride?

 

[Dave M]

Who did Jesus Die for ???

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

 

[Marek]

@Dave M
For those who would turn to the Most High, and live as Yahusha did, in obedience and faith, not to the man-made doctrines and traditions of the world (way of the Pharisees) but to the word of Elohim. (1 John 2:6)

 

[Dave M]

@Dave M
For those who would turn to the Most High, and live as Yahusha did, in obedience and faith, not to the man-made doctrines and traditions of the world (way of the Pharisees) but to the word of Elohim. (1 John 2:6)

so would say that those are true believers, which is the church described in the below scripture

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

 

[amadeus2]

Well Amadeus, It seems that we agree..though I don't know about that wheel within the wheel part. I see that wheel as something totally different...(and something that is seriously controversial in this group). But yes, we are agreed that the bride is to come out of the church....The woman who gives birth to the man child is the church and the manchild is the One New Man

Brother, I don't know all of the answers as God has not revealed them all to me. The "Wheel in the middle of a wheel', is one I heard from another brother, but God hasn't clarified it for me. so that I will leave alone for now.

We do live by faith rather than by knowledge although we do also have some knowledge of the things of God.

Give God the glory!

Will He not tell us everything we need to know when we need to know it... if we continue wait on Him?

 

[Marek]

@amadeus2 Knowledge is just as important as faith is, wisdom can save you from evil ways and so keep you on the narrow path (Proverbs 2:9-11). He tells us everything we need to know mostly through His word, if we just let Him guide us into truth.

 

[Bendito]

@amadeus2 Knowledge is just as important as faith is, wisdom can save you from evil ways and so keep you on the narrow path (Proverbs 2:9-11). He tells us everything we need to know mostly through His word, if we just let Him guide us into truth.

Marek....do you know the difference between wisdom and knowledge? Of course you do....I only asked that because today my wife asked me that question. I had to pass it on....LOL