The Law or not the Law that is the question?

[Brother-Paul]

I have heard some churches teach this. It would be an interesting study.
But is the separation of the sheep and goats... the judgment itself?

What seems to separate the sheep and goats... is that they all professed to know the Lord.
But some acted on those beliefs (fed the hungry, clothed the poor, visited the sick, etc... )
and the others did not act upon those beliefs (you never visited me, you never fed me, you never clothed me).

Good topic brother, whether the scripture relates to believers and none believers or those who profess to know the Lord and don't (which are not saved!) is worthy of another study and discussion. Maybe after Easter.

 

[B-A-C]

This bring us back to the western worlds world for love, one word fits all.

It also brings us back to "Is the Law required?" If love is the law... and love is required....
does that mean the law is required?

Furthermore... if love takes effort on my part.. does salvation take effort on my part?

 

[Brother-Paul]

It also brings us back to "Is the Law required?" If love is the law... and love is required....
does that mean the law is required?

Furthermore... if love takes effort on my part.. does salvation take effort on my part?

According to Jesus the Law and the Prophets hangs on these two 'commandments'

And the commandments say to me... ALL the Law and the Prophets - that relate to LOVE are included.

Do you read this differently brother?

Matthew 22:37-40
37 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
(We are to Love God as He loves us - 10 Commandments 'Love God' who created all things and created us)
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these two commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets."

 

[RJ]

I would think that faith and hope wouldn't be needed because our "hope" of salvation will be fulfilled at that point.
Also our "faith" in Jesus will no longer be faith when He is standing before us.

That's why I said that love is the only one that remains in heaven!

If @Brother-Paul is correct and love is part of the Torah (teachings) that remains.
Then is love required even in heaven?

Beg your pardon, love is not required in heaven, it just is...like it should be now!

 

[B-A-C]

Beg your pardon, love is not required in heaven, it just is...like it should be now!

Yes.. "should be".

But can we declare that love is complete? Does everyone love everyone?

 

[RJ]

It also brings us back to "Is the Law required?" If love is the law... and love is required....
does that mean the law is required?

If either is required, then you would have to do both perfectly all the time, so neither is required but encourage to the best of your ability.
St. Paul said it best!...2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
Brothers, it is all about him and none of us!

 

[Brother-Paul]

B-A-C said: ↑
If @Brother-Paul is correct and love is part of the Torah (teachings) that remains.
Then is love required even in heaven?

That's why I said that love is the only one that remains in heaven!

Beg your pardon, love is not required in heaven, it just is...like it should be now!

God is Love, we are commanded to Love God and to Love our neighbour as our self.

Love is the fulfilment of the Law.

In Heaven we will be surrounded by, encompassed by, wrapped in God's love.

 

[B-A-C]

If either is required, then you would have to do both perfectly all the time, so neither is required but encourage to the best of your ability.
St. Paul said it best!...2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
Brothers, it is all about him and none of us!

Why would we have to do it perfectly all the time?
Isn't this is what grace is for? He is strong where we are weak.
When we don't love perfectly, His grace covers the part where we fall short.

 

[RJ]

But can we declare that love is complete? Does everyone love everyone?

Sorry, that has nothing to do with love being required in heaven! There is nothing "required", it just is because that is the way God designed it and we are in a perfect state!

 

[B-A-C]

Sorry, that has nothing to do with love being required in heaven! There is nothing "required", it just is because that is the way God designed it and we are in a perfect state!

Ok... maybe not in heaven. But how about now? Is love required now?
If nothing is required, then why will some people go to hell?
If we are perfect, then why do we need Jesus?

 

[RJ]

Why would we have to do it perfectly all the time?
Isn't this is what grace is for? He is strong where we are weak.
When we don't love perfectly, His grace covers the part where we fall short.

You always seem say that you must do something; that you must obey the law, you must love. In order for you to do anything that would count beyond grace, you would have to do it perfectly, or it is as filthy rags to God. Remember God said,if you were to miss one aspect of the law, you failed all of the law. So, it would be the same way with love. So, in our weakness, is Jesus, our strength! We certainly should strive for perfection both with the law and love but, we should realize that when we fail that this applies: Romans 8:1 .

 

[B-A-C]

we should realize that when we fail that this applies: Romans 8:1 .

So then... being "in" Christ is a requirement. So there is at least one requirement.

 

[RJ]

Ok... maybe not in heaven. But how about now? Is love required now?
If nothing is required, then why will some people go to hell?
If we are perfect, then why do we need Jesus?

NO! the truth is that it is NOT required, it's expected! If it were required by God, it would have to meet his standard, which is perfection!....again, if you miss one aspect of perfection, you miss it all....you must see this!

 

[RJ]

So then... being "in" Christ is a requirement. So there is at least one requirement.

O.K., if that appease you, then fine, it is a requirement. But , not how you think! Being in Christ or, him in us, is by grace or a gift from God and nothing we do......it is his requirement not ours since we are not allowed to boast!

 

[B-A-C]

Grace covers where we fall short.
Doing what I am told to do doesn't give me anything to boast about.
If I think I can be saved by giving more money to the church, or by helping more old ladies
across the street, or by how many churches I've built, then I might try to boast.

But if I am simply trying to do what God told me to do.. I have nothing to boast in.
Especially since I am unable to do it perfectly.

Luke 17:7; “Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’?
Luke 17:8; But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’?
Luke 17:9; He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he?
Luke 17:10; So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”

There is no boasting in doing the bare minimum of what we are told to do.

Rom 12:1; I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Presenting our bodies as a sacrifice, is our "reasonable service". It's simply what we are expected to do.
If we do it, there's nothing to boast about.

 

[RJ]

But if I am simply trying to do what God told me to do.. I have nothing to boast in.
Especially since I am unable to do it perfectly.

Yes, we are unable to do it perfectly...then we are saved by grace alone and not what we do.......we have no disagreement!

 

[RJ]

The sheep however will not be judged for these items, sins, as our sins were washed away to be remembered no more the moment we accepted Jesus. Born again believers will be judged for what we have done for the Lord not for our sins, we will be given a crown according to our works we have done for the Lord.

A believer is one that does the work of the lord, according to his / her spiritual gifts and as the Lord sees fit!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Yes.. "should be".

But can we declare that love is complete?

In Heaven we can brother, in Heaven we can.

God is Love.

In Heaven there is no sin, there will be no law, it will be as it was in the Garden of Eden, God with man, man with God.... it will be Paradise.

Until then...

Jesus is the fulfilment of the Law, which is a 3 way love starting from God.

God's Love for us, our Love for God, our love for others with the Love he gives us to Love others with.

Love the Lord your God and your neighbour as yourself is the fulfilment of the Law scripture confirms.

 

[Mimi]

They said that they Would, but the truth was that they could not as Peter confirms here:

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Acts 15:10



They cannot operate simultaneously? If this is so, why is it so? Can you provided some supportive scriptures?



If you read the OP, you see that the question was as to how pertinent the Law which God gave to Moses was, or was, not significant to us as believers today. That is where it started, but we may have gone off on a tangent since then.



Amen!



And thank you! And again... amen!

On the operation of law and grace. It's quite simple, you can't give someone a gift and ask them to work for it.

There are so many portions of scripture that paint the picture from Adam/Eve to Jesus. Cain, Noahs ark, 'the lamb' provided, the covenant God made with Abraham etc

Thanks for Acts 15:10


*thoughts*
Nice thread summary. Someone taught me something recently which I'm still figuring out. God 'did not give' the law directly, humans asked for it, an angel brought it and moses collected it. I guess that's why it's called Moses law...and Moses will be the one to judge those who follow it...John 5:45
*thoughts*

 

[RJ]

On the operation of law and grace. It's quite simple, you can't give someone a gift and ask them to work for it.

Ooh!...I like that!