Chopper
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Thanks friend.
Why did God Kill So Many Innocent People In The Book Of Joshua.
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Thanks friend.
RJ
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Hey, all things are possible! Also, even-though I see no scriptures precisely saying this ( you know how some must have the scripture or they won't believe), we will see each other in the next life and will remember this exact conversation.
amadeus2
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In the OT types and shadows were shown of the NT. In the OT enemies were to be completely destroyed. This enemy 'without' of the OT was a shadow of the enemy 'within' of the NT.
In the NT and now, the primary enemy is recognized as being inside of us and we are still to 'take no prisoners'. The evil within us must be destroyed completely, even if we do not recognize it as being evil. God's Spirit does recognize the evil at all times and He has the power to destroy it when we do not. All we have to do is surrender completely to God continuously and He will destroy all of the evil in us.
The wages of sin is death.
Individuals must die for their sins when they have not been redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ. All of our sinful ways must be destroyed. All of our enemies must die rather than being imprisoned. We are already prisoners of sin, if we are still sinning and who is not? Alone, we cannot stop sinning. Alone, we cannot destroy sin or the causes of sin, but God can.
Take no prisoners!
In the NT and now, the primary enemy is recognized as being inside of us and we are still to 'take no prisoners'. The evil within us must be destroyed completely, even if we do not recognize it as being evil. God's Spirit does recognize the evil at all times and He has the power to destroy it when we do not. All we have to do is surrender completely to God continuously and He will destroy all of the evil in us.
The wages of sin is death.
Individuals must die for their sins when they have not been redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ. All of our sinful ways must be destroyed. All of our enemies must die rather than being imprisoned. We are already prisoners of sin, if we are still sinning and who is not? Alone, we cannot stop sinning. Alone, we cannot destroy sin or the causes of sin, but God can.
Take no prisoners!
Chopper
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Very good my Brother. I like your thinking.
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@Chopper
Most times questioning what occurred in the bible originates from a sincere desire to find fault in God, which is easier to face for an unsaved person, then the alternative which is. God is always right and that everyone is a sinner and deserves death. Reality can be one tough pill to swallow.
However, once they can accept this and know it is this sin that has prevented us from reaching across a wide gulf to God. Then seeing that God is truly loving by showing the proof of this through the death of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ on the Cross and His Resurrection. It then becomes an avalanche of Holy Spirit power roaring directly through all resistance into his heart & spirit. Breaking all barriers down until there is only one repentant sinner left. Thanking God for His Grace & Mercy!
I found this link and hope it may help some with explaining his current question.
Old Testament Violence
I'll include my prayers heavenward for Chad that one day he may also call Jesus Lord and Savior as you do brother.
YBIC
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Most times questioning what occurred in the bible originates from a sincere desire to find fault in God, which is easier to face for an unsaved person, then the alternative which is. God is always right and that everyone is a sinner and deserves death. Reality can be one tough pill to swallow.
However, once they can accept this and know it is this sin that has prevented us from reaching across a wide gulf to God. Then seeing that God is truly loving by showing the proof of this through the death of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ on the Cross and His Resurrection. It then becomes an avalanche of Holy Spirit power roaring directly through all resistance into his heart & spirit. Breaking all barriers down until there is only one repentant sinner left. Thanking God for His Grace & Mercy!
I found this link and hope it may help some with explaining his current question.
Old Testament Violence
I'll include my prayers heavenward for Chad that one day he may also call Jesus Lord and Savior as you do brother.
YBIC
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Thiscrosshurts
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i agree the new frontier is within,However destroying evil is tricky when you are basically killing off the you in you.
What we call evil is simply error that keeps us from the one mind in the universe that is not insane.
The only way I know how to do that is to spot the path of love in every way and situation.
Like,"wow Lord this is just such a great time to see love in action in this situation,thank you for shining light on this situation"..
Waggles
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The entering into the Promised Land for a possession and the casting out of the inhabitants, who were not of Israel, is also a great parable and warning to the whole Earth
in respect to the final judgment. The Promised Land will be the entire planet, and the meek shall inherit the Earth. Wicked inhabitants shall be cast out and removed from the presence of God.
Just because the original inhabitants of Canaan where physically slaughtered does not mean that they are automatically condemned to hell and fire. Because of their
suffering and loss Jesus may well have mercy and grace towards them and they may well be spared. This is God's domain of righteousness and holiness and his
thoughts and his ways are far higher and beyond our limited thinking and mindsets.
Chad needs to be challenged as to whether or not he is innocent in the eyes of God [that searches out the hearts of men].
Chad needs to understand that if he does not want to love and obey Jesus and his righteousness now in this lifetime, then how can he expect to dwell
with the Lord forever in the next age to come. Life is about choices - good or evil, truth or a lie, to love or to hate, to help and assist or not to...
Chad needs to be challenged as to choosing, like Rahab, to become part of Israel and join in on their victory and salvation, or he can be a Philistine and
suffer the loss and death of not converting. Rahab and Ruth offer excellent Bible studies in outsiders choosing the God of Israel and then receiving the
blessings and the promises.
Chopper
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Thank you so very much for this information my Brother. O my, a huge thank you for praying for Chad's Salvation. I'll give the web site "Got Questions" to my Son Skip in case he wants to send it to Chad....What do you think about that? Would it be good for Chad to read that item?
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I would have to believe that it would be beneficial since it seems from your words that he is at a crossroads. Additional information can help, but only if its done on his own terms. Push too much and he could run in the opposite direction. The Holy Spirit will provide you the awareness of when the time is right or if its not.
That your son and you the important male role models of Chads life are believers can be of great benefit. He has since little looked to each of you for guidance and leadership. Especially as it pertains to what it means to be a man, and hopefully a man of God. Also, don't second guess yourself that you could have done more. That's the devil talking. If you all had been overbearing, it is not likely he'd be asking these questions.
The information at this site is just additional information, providing Chad a different perspective from what he might have already been introduced to. So it could help him see that other Godly people/sources view this issue in the same light or at least in a light that has logic. This does not mean he might not still continue to to disagree with what happened.
Not knowing his age, I can only assume that he is now facing the worlds perspective of God, His Word, and His People. He will begin or has been challenging the foundation that you and your son have instilled in him. The foundation part has been built knowingly or unknowingly. Like in marriage. For better or for worse. Just be thankful that it will be by the Holy Spirit that Chad will get moved by. Moved to seeing himself, and the world as it really is.
The Holy Spirit has a lot of experience in this. Look at you, your son and so many others all around the world and the work He's done there! Place your trust in the Lord in this. Just as I'm sure you've done in so many other times in your life! I know that Chad is even more important to you and others which goes without saying. Just remember that God loves Him even more then both of you do and remember that along with your awareness that God is in control of this, doesn't make mistakes, and can provide you both the peace that believe it or not Chad will see radiating from you both.
You and your son as I said before are some of the examples in the areas I mentioned previously for which he has looked to for assistance and now he will start if he hasn't already, to continue exploring on his own. The criticism from the world is starting to challenge him! This is not a bad thing. It would have happened at one time or another. At least in this time he has some Godly men of prayer to question and to seek guidance from.
Besides prayers that both you and others have and will continue to do. I have but one more suggestion. That is to not be afraid of saying you don't know something or excusing something that is found in the Bible!!!! Trying to beat around the bush or tell some fabrication to put him off till you can find out more. Will only make him distrust you when you do know what you're talking about!!!!
We love them so much and want to help them all we can. Without realizing it and with the best of intentions, we can easily put our foot in our mouth. It's surprising how well we can continue to talk even when we have a mouth full of foot. :laugh: So would even go as far as to say its a man's disease! Took a few reminders from the wife and the Holy Spirit to at times to not go overboard and to it.
As I've said before. I will be praying for all you.
YBIC
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Chopper
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Thank you so very much my Dear Brother and friend. Your instruction is very valuable and spiritual. I receive your instruction with a joyful heart. I find that your heart is very wise. I also see God's Commands, statues, and rules of a spiritual life are inscribed on that heart of yours and it just overflows to me, the recipient of your favor of which I'm honored to receive.
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Thank-you dear brother for your kind words. I tell you to give Him the "Thank-yous" and any "Praises" for He makes all things possible through Jesus Christ. I take no credit for them. All the Glory is God's!
To me the joy and the blessing is that He has allowed me to be a vessel by which another, and most especially a Brother in Christ Jesus might reap some benefit. Alleluia! Amen! Father God!
YBIC
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It's one of those tough questions, but has an answer. It doesn't look loving from an unbeliever's, skeptic's point of view. But God is always just and right.
Here's another OT example.
Why would God order the destruction of men, women, and children?
by Matt Slick @ carm.org
"Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. 3 ‘Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
The Amalekites, who were descendents of Esau, had been longtime enemies of Israel. They fought against Israel at Rephidim (Exodus 17:8). Apparently, they "entertained a deep-seated grudge against them, especially as the rapid prosperity and marvelous experience of Israel showed that the blessing contained in the birthright [Jacob and Esau] was taking effect."1 They were a constant threat to Israel. Therefore, God said to Moses in Exodus 17:14, “Write this in a book as a memorial, and recite it to Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under His righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of ourselves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become "utterly sinful".2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.
Finally, one of the reasons that the Lord is so strong in the Old Testament and orders the killing of people is to ensure that the future messianic line would remain intact. The enemy, Satan, began his attempt to destroy God's people in the Garden of Eden by also trying to corrupt the world (which led to Noah's Flood), by trying to destroy Israel with attacking armies, and by encouraging Israel to fall into idolatry by exposure to other cultures as well as intermarrying women from those cultures. The result of both the idolatry and the interbreeding would have been the failure of the prophecies that foretold of the coming Messiah which specified which family line the Messiah would come through. The Messiah, Jesus, would be the one who would die for the sins of the world, and without that death, there would be no atonement. Without the atonement, all people would be lost. So, God was ensuring the arrival of the Messiah via the destruction of the ungodly.
Here's another OT example.
Why would God order the destruction of men, women, and children?
by Matt Slick @ carm.org
"Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt. 3 ‘Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey,” (1 Samuel 15:2-3).
The Amalekites, who were descendents of Esau, had been longtime enemies of Israel. They fought against Israel at Rephidim (Exodus 17:8). Apparently, they "entertained a deep-seated grudge against them, especially as the rapid prosperity and marvelous experience of Israel showed that the blessing contained in the birthright [Jacob and Esau] was taking effect."1 They were a constant threat to Israel. Therefore, God said to Moses in Exodus 17:14, “Write this in a book as a memorial, and recite it to Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”
God lawfully has the right to execute judgment upon anyone. The Bible says that all people have sinned against God and are under His righteous judgment. Therefore, their execution is not an arbitrary killing nor is it murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. Killing is the lawful taking of life. For example, we can lawfully take a life in defense of ourselves, our families, our nations, etc.
When God authorizes the nation of Israel to wipe out a people, it is a lawful execution due to their rebellion and sin against God. Furthermore, such an extermination can be seen to be merciful by delivering the young into the hands of the Lord and possibly saving their souls by not giving them time to become "utterly sinful".2 Additionally, further generations that would have arisen from the perverse culture are likewise prevented from coming into existence and spreading their sin.
Finally, one of the reasons that the Lord is so strong in the Old Testament and orders the killing of people is to ensure that the future messianic line would remain intact. The enemy, Satan, began his attempt to destroy God's people in the Garden of Eden by also trying to corrupt the world (which led to Noah's Flood), by trying to destroy Israel with attacking armies, and by encouraging Israel to fall into idolatry by exposure to other cultures as well as intermarrying women from those cultures. The result of both the idolatry and the interbreeding would have been the failure of the prophecies that foretold of the coming Messiah which specified which family line the Messiah would come through. The Messiah, Jesus, would be the one who would die for the sins of the world, and without that death, there would be no atonement. Without the atonement, all people would be lost. So, God was ensuring the arrival of the Messiah via the destruction of the ungodly.
- 1. Jamieson, R., A. R. Fausset, and D. Brown, A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, 1997, Ex 17:8.
- 2. There is debate on whether or not children are saved if they die early. This paper is not meant to answer that question but to pose a possible reason for God's destruction of the young.
Chopper
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Yes, and a big AMEN!!
B-A-C
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It's possible some of these people were giants.
Num 13:28; Nevertheless, the people who live in the land are strong, and the cities are fortified and very large; and moreover, we saw the descendants of Anak there
Num 13:32; So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, “The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size.
Num 13:33; There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”
One thought is that giants were created as offspring between angels (the sons of God) and
human women (the daughters of men). Gen 6:2-4;
God never intended for this to happen. Since this land was promised to the Israelites anyway.
This was a good time to get rid of some of them.
This may be the angels that went after "strange flesh" (human women?) in Jude 1:7;
Num 13:28; Nevertheless, the people who live in the land are strong, and the cities are fortified and very large; and moreover, we saw the descendants of Anak there
Num 13:32; So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, “The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size.
Num 13:33; There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”
One thought is that giants were created as offspring between angels (the sons of God) and
human women (the daughters of men). Gen 6:2-4;
God never intended for this to happen. Since this land was promised to the Israelites anyway.
This was a good time to get rid of some of them.
This may be the angels that went after "strange flesh" (human women?) in Jude 1:7;
Chopper
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There were giants as the Scriptures state. At this particular time, Satan
Yes, there were giants on the earth as a result of Genesis 6. Joshua finished them off most of them....
Joshua 11:21 "And Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill country of Judah, and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua devoted them to destruction with their cities."
My feelings are that Satan knew God was up to something big and he wanted to stop it by his own creation of an evil generation of people who would eventually kill off the children of God and he would have his own little evil race of followers which is what he has always wanted.
Brad Huber
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Satan knew that God had something special going on in the land, word of it being given to the children of Abraham, and that had never been done before, so he ensured that his creations of woman/fallen angels would be there to keep them from claiming the land or if failing to do so, be a snare to corrupt God's plans. God didnt care about the power of the people there, they coudnt thwart His power, but He knew that they would ensnare his people and lead them into corruption, so thats why He wanted them destroyed, to free the area of its badly corrupted influence. People want to say they were innocent there, but they only say that because they have a problem with God and want to find fault with Him over it.
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God would ever annihilate giants just for being giants. There has to be more to this.
Chopper
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This is true KingJ, The Book of Enoch explains the "more to it."
Bendito
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These 'innocent' people were in no way innocent...They were not even completely human...Most were hybrids, many were giants..In fact there were thirty six tribes of giants lining in the area around the Hebrew people at the time...these include;
Amalekites Amorites Anakims Ashdothites Avium Avites Canaanites Caphtorims Ekronites Emins Eshkalonites Gazathites Geshurites Gibeonites Giblites Girgashites Gittites Hittites Hivites Horims Horites Jebusites Kadmonites Kenites Maachathites Manassites Nephilim * Perizzites Philistines Rephaims Sidonians Zamzummins Zebusites Zuzims Kenizzites Maachathites
These giants were apparently the original giants spawned by the Gregori, the giant angels who mated with human females.
When God commanded that all those people be wiped out He was not killing innocents but 'people' dedicated to total evil...Satanic criptids if you will.
