Missing Bible Verses, Harper Collins, More

[amadeus2]

Let the Word speak to our hearts and may we be open to the Holy Spirit.

This was perhaps the best thing I read in this thread although admittedly I only scanned some parts of it.

I have always read in English only the KJV Bible [since I starting reading the Bible in 1976], but I would never say that a person shouldn't read from the multitude of other English translations available today. I regularly read the Bible in two other human languages, but while that has its good points, it is not as good a point as the one made by @Brother-Paul.

Was the Bible written as men were inspired to do so by God or not? If it was and God did it for us, would He leave a hungry and thirsty person empty because of somebody's poor translation or poor ministering or poor preaching? Is not the following verse (in any version or language of which I am familiar) a promise?

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6 [KJV]

 

[Christ4Ever]

@amadeus2

If only all the verses so accommodating brother. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[amadeus2]

@amadeus2

If only all the verses so accommodating brother. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Give God the glory my friend! Give God the glory!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Give God the glory my friend! Give God the glory!

As well as Praise and Worship my brother!!

 

[Brother-Paul]

I like many have The Message eBook set, but I don't use it.

Regarding reading a number of Bible Translations, we have to accept, as translations that is all they are, translations.

'Theoretically speaking', each Bible translation should more or less say the same thing although explained in a different way, I find reading three translations is good because, if one of them doesn't say the same as the other two it rings alarm bells, and then I check other translations, or delve deeper. If you not read several and compare them how can you know there is a difference, unless someone tells you or you read it somewhere.

So I do not end up confused Christ4Ever. Take the W,W,W,W,W,H situation, a number of people see something happen, even if they were all in the same place, and all looking in the same direction, they would all interpret what happened and explain it differently. Sometimes it is good to hear or read things said differently, I think so anyway.

As mentioned earlier, it concerns me that some places of worship use 'their own' Bible translations, the eyes of the heart of some would see things differently if prior to their service or after the service they read the same scripture in the KJV or NJKV. The rest is down to prayer of born again believers, praying in Jesus Name and the Power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ophel]

RJ,
Christ4Ever is saying exactly what you are saying. so don't say "No'. Say yes!
And are you referring to the Translation of "The Message"? That is one of the worst translations to read. (KJV is the most recommended.)
And yes there are things that can lead a person away from Jesus Christ. Have you heard of an Atheist? Have you heard of Satan? Abortion? Murder? Of course there are things that can lead us away. But only if we chose to follow them.

The Message is not a translation. It is a paraphrase, and a very acceptable one, especially when used in conjunction to a good translation. In fact, new believers who are unfamiliar with bible language will come to love and crave scripture when introduced to this paraphrase, because their understanding is open and their hunger is great.

 

[RJ]

And are you referring to the Translation of "The Message"? That is one of the worst translations to read. (KJV is the most recommended.)

That of course is a matter of opinion and possibly how you were taught. If the message was the only version available to you, I guess you would recommend not reading it and stay completely in the dark? I have and use 5 0r 6 different translations, including the KJV and, personally, I find not enough difference, with regard to the complete gospel to make a " hill of beans" over as some do....For what it is worth, here is another post that I had in this original thread:
"Use several of the most commonly translations used. if you are a true Christian with Jesus Christ living in you, he will lead to all truth. The most important thing is to stay in the word of God and with him you will have a good enough grasp of the gospel that saves!"

 

[Christ4Ever]

Author of the Message Quote: "When I'm in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, "Hear the Word of God from The Message." But it surprises me how many do."

Taking the above in context of why we read the bible. Wouldn't one question the use of The Message period?

A nice little chart to use. However, think about what we're talking about here. Accuracy to the original manuscripts against Intelligibility.
We fall into the trap that it's about understanding by our own insight. How many learned men have fallen down the trap of believing they know better or have interpreted something that was not so? Does the name Harold Camping ring a bell anyone?

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

So how far away from God's Word must we deviate before it is no longer God's word, but man's? How far do we go before it's not God's truth but man's truth that is being communicated?

Words have power! Matthew 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Our concern should be especially great as it pertains to the word of God.

We are a fast food society that wants everything now. We need to know everything now!

Need it to take a little time, a little effort, a little Holy Spirit guidance?

When the writer himself knows it to be in His own words and not God's, and yet people will still lead with them or even put them next to each as if they are saying the same thing but in other words. Are they saying that these words are Holy as well? That they were inspired by the Holy Spirit? I would say no.

Let the word of God through the Holy Spirit reveal to you understanding.

I always liked what Vernon McGee said about the Bible. I just wonder if this would hold true with TM.

Read it to be wise.
Believe it to be safe.
Practice it to be Holy.

With the Love of Christ Jesus
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[RJ]

Author of the Message Quote: "When I'm in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, "Hear the Word of God from The Message." But it surprises me how many do."

Taking the above in context of why we read the bible. Wouldn't one question the use of The Message period?

View attachment 143

A nice little chart to use. However, think about what we're talking about here. Accuracy to the original manuscripts against Intelligibility.
We fall into the trap that it's about understanding by our own insight. How many learned men have fallen down the trap of believing they know better or have interpreted something that was not so? Does the name Harold Camping ring a bell anyone?

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

So how far away from God's Word must we deviate before it is no longer God's word, but man's? How far do we go before it's not God's truth but man's truth that is being communicated?

View attachment 147

Words have power! Matthew 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Our concern should be especially great as it pertains to the word of God.

We are a fast food society that wants everything now. We need to know everything now!

Need it to take a little time, a little effort, a little Holy Spirit guidance?

When the writer himself knows it to be in His own words and not God's, and yet people will still lead with them or even put them next to each as if they are saying the same thing but in other words. Are they saying that these words are Holy as well? That they were inspired by the Holy Spirit? I would say no.

Let the word of God through the Holy Spirit reveal to you understanding.

I always liked what Vernon McGee said about the Bible. I just wonder if this would hold true with TM.

Read it to be wise.
Believe it to be safe.
Practice it to be Holy.

With the Love of Christ Jesus
YBIC
C4E
<><

All that fine work and yet can you prove that any of the translations fail at providing the true gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

 

[Daniel Barendregt]

That of course is a matter of opinion and possibly how you were taught. If the message was the only version available to you, I guess you would recommend not reading it and stay completely in the dark? I have and use 5 0r 6 different translations, including the KJV and, personally, I find not enough difference, with regard to the complete gospel to make a " hill of beans" over as some do....For what it is worth, here is another post that I had in this original thread:
"Use several of the most commonly translations used. if you are a true Christian with Jesus Christ living in you, he will lead to all truth. The most important thing is to stay in the word of God and with him you will have a good enough grasp of the gospel that saves!"

It is not a matter of opinion unless you disagree with the text in the bible that says:

Matthew 5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Revelation 22:18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Lots of bibles nowadays have been altered, things have been taken out and added to The Bible to make it more "Politically Correct".
I'm not saying RJ, that if it was the only thing available that I would not read it...
Nevertheless that is not the case here.
I'm sure that most people on this forum can get their hands on a KJV.
Those who can't, I'm sure don't have the privilege of the World Wide Web as we do.
(I'm not saying that, "The KJV is the one and only perfect bible within our grasp." But it is, by far, one of the closest versions translated from the original Latin documents.)

You better realize that sin is never stagnate.
Even if there is not a lot of difference between translations, you should know how serious God is.
When God says that if ANYONE changes just a tiny piece of scripture, they will have all the plagues of the book set upon them.....Do you honestly think God is just playing around? Do you think he is not serious?

The world is the way it is because too many "Christians" just keep letting the little things slide.
There has got to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. So draw the line.
If God is against changing the bible, and you have the option of not investing in a bible that has been twisted, why would you?

And Sure, sticking to the word of God is one of the most important things, I agree completely.
But you can't just use that as a blanket statement to wipe the "little" things off the table!

Luke 16:10: He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

And if The Bible has been changed you can no longer call it, 'The Word of God' because it is quite obvious that it is not all the word of God.
You might as well start calling some of your bibles, 'The Word of Man'. Because that is ultimately what it is.

God Bless.

 

[Hekuran]

I love the Message. I have been reading the Bible for a long time, and this paraphrase does a great job of shaking me out of the comfort of familiarity.

We use scripture in different ways, and different translations and paraphrases help us in different ways. No doubt The Message is not suitable for serious study. But I am grateful for the way it helps me to read the word of God with fresh eyes.

 

[Hekuran]

And I've just found these remarks from Eugene Peterson, which tie in with my experience

While I was teaching a class on Galatians, I began to realize that the adults in my class weren't feeling the vitality and directness that I sensed as I read and studied the New Testament in its original Greek. Writing straight from the original text, I began to attempt to bring into English the rhythms and idioms of the original language. I knew that the early readers of the New Testament were captured and engaged by these writings and I wanted my congregation to be impacted in the same way. I hoped to bring the New Testament to life for two different types of people: those who hadn't read the Bible because it seemed too distant and irrelevant and those who had read the Bible so much that it had become 'old hat.'​

 

[Ophel]

Author of the Message Quote: "When I'm in a congregation where somebody uses [The Message] in the Scripture reading, it makes me a little uneasy. I would never recommend it be used as saying, "Hear the Word of God from The Message." But it surprises me how many do."

Taking the above in context of why we read the bible. Wouldn't one question the use of The Message period?

Eugene Peterson is correct. He has offered a paraphrase.

If we are strong believers and active in imparting truth, we paraphrase every day.

 

[Christ4Ever]

All that fine work and yet can you prove that any of the translations fail at providing the true gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

If that's all you get out of the Bible brother then I guess not. Just keep in mind you can find the same things in the JW Bible too. Hey, but let's not go there because that will get us into all sort of doctrines found in the vernacular of our day in a loosely, possibly, maybe accurate..............

Love you brother. You do keep it interesting! :thumbsup:
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Hekuran
I'm glad you have found some benefit to it. I just won't heap too much praise on this book.

Peterson also said: “There is a sense in which the Scriptures are the word of God dehydrated, with all the originating context removed—living voices, city sounds, camels carrying spices from Seba and gold from Ophir snoring down in the bazaar, fragrance from lentil stew simmering in the kitchen—all now reduced to marks on thin onion-skin paper”

By his words. I guess God didn't get the product He wanted or communicated in the way He wanted or should have communicated it. At least according to Mr. Peterson. His sensing that a lot is missing has you wondering if God choose the right writers for the task. Who just might dare write something other then what He inspired them to write. Makes you wonder if the writers choose God and not the other way around.

Just take care brother that you don't confuse the two. I'd rather have you with the Holy Spirit perspective and understanding then Mr. Peterson's.
Only in love brother.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Ophel]

For heaven's sake! Peterson is a Spirit-filled man. We should all know that God wasn't inspiring stories that are highly descriptive and detailed as to settings that include background, sights, sounds and smells. Holy Spirit helps us fill in those things. That's part of His job.

 

[Hekuran]

@Hekuran

By his words. I guess God didn't get the product He wanted or communicated in the way He wanted or should have communicated it. At least according to Mr. Peterson. His sensing that a lot is missing has you wondering if God choose the right writers for the task. Who just might dare write something other then what He inspired them to write. Makes you wonder if the writers choose God and not the other way around.

<

I am absolutely sure that Eugene Peterson thinks nothing of the kind. The quote you posted is from 'Eat this Book'. A glance at the rest of the book will tell you that he has the highest regard for the word of God.

 

[RJ]

If that's all you get out of the Bible brother then I guess not. Just keep in mind you can find the same things in the JW Bible too. Hey, but let's not go there because that will get us into all sort of doctrines found in the vernacular of our day in a loosely, possibly, maybe accurate..............

Love you brother. You do keep it interesting! :thumbsup:
YBIC
C4E
<><

So too the Mormon Bible but, I don't read either of those and don't see the analogy.

• John 16:13......I don't see this basic truth changing much in any of the 4 or 5 translations I read?!...including, Eugene Peterson!
  
• I suppose, one way or the other, the Holy Spirit leads us into truth or he doesn't....BTW, you do realize there is no need for a Bible in heaven! The only book I know of there is the Lamb's Book of Life and, I know my name is in it, regardless what translation I happen to be reading at the time!
  
• Love you as well! You do keep throwing me curve balls!:thumbsup:

 

[Christ4Ever]

All that fine work and yet can you prove that any of the translations fail at providing the true gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

So too the Mormon Bible but, I don't read either of those and don't see the analogy.

The point had more to do with your previous answer to my post.

Clarifying............My point was. I'm sure those items you mentioned "providing the true gospel of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ?" are not the only parts of scripture that you, I or any of us focus on or need to know. If they were. Then God would have presented us with a shorter version and we'd have an easier time picking a translation to use.

What is important here is the interigity to the original manuscripts and the accuracy of the translation. The Message was not created that way nor was it intended to communicate itself as such. The author, Eugene Peterson did not intend it in that way. So, Word of God it is not.

Off to work!!
Always a joy my brother!
With the love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[Chopper]

No, we are the Sower. We can bring them to water but can't make them drink. Just plant the seed and let Jesus do his work. Like I said, and I think we agree, more than one translation is better, especially for study. The Message is the Bible; I have yet to find an untruth in it and, by no means, is there anything there that could lead anyone away from the truth. If you think there is something there that would lead a person away from Jesus, please let me know!

Very interesting. There is a Scripture that might shed some light on this....
1Peter 3:1 "Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives,"

The context of this Scripture deals with Wives, but is applicable to many situations. Therefore, our good Christian life before strangers and unbelievers can be used by the Holy Spirit is bring that person to Salvation....Case in point; Tim, my next door neighbor was unsaved. We became friends right off and I helped him thru some tough times in his life. I noticed that he was watching how I handled similar problems of his own.

One day, he asked me to pray for his Daughter who was in trouble. I did, and after, I asked Tim if he would like to be saved. He said yes. He said that he had been thinking about Salvation a lot lately. He did get saved and is still learning a new lifestyle. Praise the Lord.

RJ, you mentioned...."If you think there is something there that would lead a person away from Jesus, please let me know!" My Grandson Chad has read various Scriptures in the Old Testament, like Joshua, He says, How can God kill so many innocent people and children just to give the land to Israel. In this case, the Scriptures keep this unsaved man from Salvation. Obviously, his Father, my Son Skip, try and give him truth and pray for his Salvation.