Gap Theory

[B-A-C]

Why do I need scripture? Aren't you "Born Again", don't you have Christ in you? That being so, could you be deceived?

One group here thinks that believers can be deceived.
The other group here thinks that believers cannot be deceived.
(one group has scripture to back it up, the other group does not ).

Obviously one of these two groups is deceived.
According to one group, you can be saved, and yet be deceived about some things.
If that's true... then both groups are saved.

According to the other group, anyone who is saved cannot be deceived.
So then if we are deceived by believing we can be deceived, we must not be saved.
(yet this is the group with scripture).

 

[Bendito]

One group here thinks that believers can be deceived.
The other group here thinks that believers cannot be deceived.
(one group has scripture to back it up, the other group does not.

Obviously one of these two groups is deceived.
According to one group, you can be saved, and yet be deceived about some things.
If that's true... then both groups are saved.

According to the other group, anyone who is saved cannot be deceived.
So then if we are deceived by believing we can be deceived, we must not be saved.
(yet this is the group with scripture).

And one group has scripture to back them up while the other group has no scripture

 

[RJ]

Who did Paul write the epistles to? The church. The saints. As far as I know, Romans is the only
epistle that could be considered partially for unbelievers. How does Paul start off his letters?

1 Cor 1:1; Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1 Cor 1:2; To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Gal 1:1; Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Gal 1:2; and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

Eph 1:1; Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

Php 1:1; Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Col 1:1; Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
Col 1:2; To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

1 Thess 1:1; Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

Even parts of Romans are specifically for the church. ( Rom 1:7; )

Why would unbelievers read a letter from Paul?

I give up, I guess you can be deceived.

 

[RJ]

Why do you need scripture? Hmmmm Let me see.....Because scripture is what God says?.....I am looking for an answer that is not someone's wishful thinking...I'm looking for an answer based on what God says. No other answer is worth anything when it comes to the spirit
What you're saying is nothing but wind without Word.

So you and B-A-C agree here, that's fine.
Deuteronomy 31: 8 The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

O.K., let's see here:
God will never leave or forsake me. He is in me...that makes me a "Born Again" believer, who is going to make God leave?
Jesus promises to never lose me, who is going to make him give me up?
I am a true believer and armed with the above "scriptural" knowledge, this is not my wishful thinking @Bendito , it is a scriptural promise. This is God's word, I believe it and take it to heart as you insinuate that you do but I , for one, hear it and think I can not be deceived but, apparently you and @B-A-C are saying you can be deceived.

 

[Bendito]

So you and B-A-C agree here, that's fine.
Deuteronomy 31: 8 The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

O.K., let's see here:
God will never leave or forsake me. He is in me...that makes me a "Born Again" believer, who is going to make God leave?
Jesus promises to never lose me, who is going to make him give me up?
I am a true believer and armed with the above "scriptural" knowledge, this is not my wishful thinking @Bendito , it is a scriptural promise. This is God's word, I believe it and take it to heart as you insinuate that you do but I , for one, hear it and think I can not be deceived but, apparently you and @B-A-C are saying you can be deceived.

Yes it's true that you have God inside with all His wisdom..but...When has God ever overridden your will in any area? If you choose to believe a lie, does He yell at you?, hit you? No You get to choose...This being the case God tells you the truth, Satan tells you his lies, and you have the right to choose whom you will believe.

 

[RJ]

Yes it's true that you have God inside with all His wisdom..but...When has God ever overridden your will in any area? If you choose to believe a lie, does He yell at you?, hit you? No You get to choose...This being the case God tells you the truth, Satan tells you his lies, and you have the right to choose whom you will believe.

That's what I have been trying to say!!! Yes, I know who to believe, I am sorry you don't!
If is not of God, I will know the difference, sorry you can't!

 

[Bendito]

That's what I have been trying to say!!! Yes, I know who to believe, I am sorry you don't!
If is not of God, I will know the difference, sorry you can't!

I'm sorry RJ With all due respect to you, you've used two or three verses and built a doctrine on them. God placed His Holy Spirit in you and you ARE born again...No doubt..But that does not say that you are immune to deception. It means you are born again.... Let me give you a for instance.....A born again believer who backslides because of a sin in his life.. He is born again but who is he listening to? Not God who resides in him...He is deceived by the enemy who has convinced him that because of his sin he is no longer acceptable to God... He is born again, the Holy Spirit resides within, and he is deceived.....Explain.

 

[RJ]

I'm sorry RJ With all due respect to you, you've used two or three verses and built a doctrine on them.

It is not two or three, it is a study of the entire Bible but you don't believe the two verses I quoted? There are many verses about deception, you can look them up yourself....they still don't change my stance.

But that does not say that you are immune to deception

Never said I was immune to it, I said it obviously doesn't affect me as it does you.

He is deceived by the enemy who has convinced him that because of his sin he is no longer acceptable to God..

Now that is a statement of a non-believer not me. I say God accepts me despite my inequities. Are you acceptable to God or, are you without sin?

He is born again, the Holy Spirit resides within, and he is deceived.....Explain.

Just because you may sin, doesn't mean you have to be deceived about it, none of us are perfect. The deception comes when you accept Satan's lie that because of the sin, God no longer loves you or accepts you. God said, he would hold your sin against you no more...what exactly don't you understand about that? When I recognize my sin, I thank God for his forgiveness and move on. Do you dwell on it and worry? What do you do about the sin you don't recognize, how do you plead for that?

 

[B-A-C]

Deuteronomy 31: 8 The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."

God doesn't leave us. We leave Him.

Isa 63:8; For He said, “Surely, they are My people, Sons who will not deal falsely.”
So He became their Savior.
Isa 63:9; In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them;
In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
Isa 63:10; But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit;
Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.

They were His people, He was their savior (verse 8).
But they rebelled. ( verse 10) God didn't rebell. He didn't desert them.
They rebelled against Him. They grieved His Holy Spirit.
He may not have left them, but He became their enemy and fought against them.

I say God accepts me despite my inequities

He does up to a point. You can't just sit back and say God takes care of it all for me.
You can't continue to sin. I'm not saying yo do this. But there are some that do.
God does not accept those who willfully continue to sin. ( Heb 10:26; )

1 Jn 3:8; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 Jn 3:10; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Isa 59:2; But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,
And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

God accepts us as we are. But He doesn't just keep on accepting us forever if we never repent and keep practicing sin.

 

[RJ]

God doesn't leave us. We leave Him.

You keep bringing this sort of thing up. If God is in you and he said he would never leave you, where exactly does he go when you leave him....how do you fall away from a God like that?

Isa 63:10; But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit;
Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.

Why can't you admit that this does not apply anymore, God is not our enemy, he isn't even made, he changed all this with the death , burial and resurrection of his son, ushering in the new Covenant!

He does up to a point. You can't just sit back and say God takes care of it all for me.
You can't continue to sin.

Obviously you are not an authority on what he does and doesn't do and to what point! Can you go 24/7 without sin, that is what would be required to be perfect, I am afraid you're not there just quite yet!

God accepts us as we are. But He doesn't just keep on accepting us forever if we never repent and keep practicing sin.

Who said you don't need to repent and can willfully sin? I don't willfully practice sin and have a repentant heart, do and don't you?

 

[Bendito]

It is not two or three, it is a study of the entire Bible but you don't believe the two verses I quoted? There are many verses about deception, you can look them up yourself....they still don't change my stance.

Never said I was immune to it, I said it obviously doesn't affect me as it does you.
Now that is a statement of a non-believer not me. I say God accepts me despite my inequities. Are you acceptable to God or, are you without sin?

Just because you may sin, doesn't mean you have to be deceived about it, none of us are perfect. The deception comes when you accept Satan's lie that because of the sin, God no longer loves you or accepts you. God said, he would hold your sin against you no more...what exactly don't you understand about that? When I recognize my sin, I thank God for his forgiveness and move on. Do you dwell on it and worry? What do you do about the sin you don't recognize, how do you plead for that?

Well Sir you only gave me two or three verses prior that post...The verses I gave you, and there were several, say that a born again, spirit filled Christian has to be careful lest he be deceived....end of discussion. You may choose to believe you are immune to deception, but you would be the only man alive to have that blessing.....
I'm done discussing this with you. Good night.

 

[RJ]

Well Sir you only gave me two or three verses prior that post...The verses I gave you, and there were several

I didn't realize we were in a contest

and there were several, say that a born again, spirit filled Christian has to be careful lest he be deceived.

The point here is not the warning but can you actually be deceived..... Can you be so deceived? If so, how and what do you do about it?

You may choose to believe you are immune to deception,

Never once said I was immune to deception, those are your words, not mine unless you can quote me saying that, which, of course, you can't...end of discussion.

 

[RJ]

One group here thinks that believers can be deceived.
The other group here thinks that believers cannot be deceived.
(one group has scripture to back it up, the other group does not ).

Obviously one of these two groups is deceived.
According to one group, you can be saved, and yet be deceived about some things.
If that's true... then both groups are saved.

According to the other group, anyone who is saved cannot be deceived.
So then if we are deceived by believing we can be deceived, we must not be saved.
(yet this is the group with scripture).

Blah, blah, blah!
Why can't you simply answer my question...can you , @B-A-C , be deceived...please just answer yes or no?

 

[Bendito]

I didn't realize we were in a contest

The point here is not the warning but can you actually be deceived..... Can you be so deceived? If so, how and what do you do about it?

Never once said I was immune to deception, those are your words, not mine unless you can quote me saying that, which, of course, you can't...end of discussion.

You say that you have the Holy Spirit living inside of you because you are born again...You also say that a person, born again, having the Holy Spirit living inside them cannot be deceived..Ergo...You say you are immune to deception... Now its end of discussion

 

[RJ]

You say that you have the Holy Spirit living inside of you because you are born again...You also say that a person, born again, having the Holy Spirit living inside them cannot be deceived..Ergo...You say you are immune to deception... Now its end of discussion

There can be no end to the discussion when you continue to not tell the truth:

• I said: Anyone truly born of water and of the spirit will not be deceived by man or Satan, nothing that will matter...post # 13 of this thread. I did not say cannot be deceived as you say! What I said was, will not be deceived by anything that matters. If you don't mind please keep this correct for any other readers!
• You said: If we do not know what is happening we can get sucked in...post # 7....I replied for unbelievers for sure and I said you won't get sucked in because you were stronger than that. So, I agree...if you know what is happening...I do ...don't you? ERGO, is not the same as saying...it is your opinion.
• Here is an "ERGO" for you... you saying:" If we do not know what is happening we can get sucked in"..wouldn't that be an ergo, if you know what is going on...isn't that the same as you want be deceived?
  
• Why don't you answer a question that I asked: Can yo be deceived?...Again, can you?

 

[Bendito]

Are you born again RJ? Are you born of water and the Spirit? You said '

Anyone truly born of water and of the spirit will not be deceived by man or Satan, nothing that that will matter.

That would make you immune to deception by your own words.....

You said: If we do not know what is happening we can get sucked in...post # 7....I replied for unbelievers for sure

Anybody will get sucked in if they do not know what to beware of....Use your head here.

I am quickly coming to believe that you argue just to argue...You give very little Word to back you up...You contradict yourself then deny it. You've done this on other posts too....I'm done talking with you.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Yup You're right there, but nothing compared with what is to come.

Agreed and everything is leading to it or setting the stage. This is how the wool can be pulled over even some of the brethren. If it just sudenly happened then it would be no big deal however just like the morality of this world - it has been slowly changing over the ages and this is how things end up being the norm as time past were hidious. That is the way of our enemy, the devil and yet many of the brethren will not choose to see this. Go figure.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

What makes you think that Paul preached only to believers?....more than not, I am sure you would agree that the majority of his audience were those who did not believe.

Look at the church today. Do think the church only has believers in them. I think we would both agree that one definition of a believer is one that is "Born Again", one who you and I, who have Christ in them.


I don't need one. Again, for the most part, there is no proof that any of what Jesus said was only for believers. Possible the "Sermon on the Mount' was initially for the disciples, the hillside soon became full of all sorts.

Basically, it comes down to what you believe and how you relate to the word. God is in me, I can't see how he will get out of me. As far as myself, though I may waiver at times, I know in my heart that I will never be deceived to Apostasy. Could you?

Was not Paul commissioned to take the gospel to the gentiles ? I mean it was Paul who had the command or job or mission to show the people that this gospel of Christ was real and it worked. So yes sir I do believe that Paul taught both believers and non believers. I mean until paul taught them how could they believe?
Blessings brother RJ
James

 

[RJ]

Anybody will get sucked in if they do not know what to beware of....Use your head here.

False statements and assumptions won't make your case. I would be more than agreeable to let it go and just agree to disagree but you keep coming back at me with innuendos and ergos and not the truth. It is you that needs to use your head here and support your own statement.
You yourself said it and you said it again above: "Anybody will get sucked in if they do not know what to beware of...you have said this time and time again...your words not mine...no "ergos" from me on this.
From the get go, I have agreed with this statement, ironically , we agree to this same thing but you won't acknowledge it ....I have and continue to ask the same question : " Can you, @Bendito , be deceived....just answer this simple question and we can put this puppy to rest!
God Bless

 

[Bendito]

There were "giants" in the land. We only assume that means humanoid giants exclusively.

So Brad.....Do you think there are giants now? Of the humanoid variety I mean. I believe there are many of them...