The Bible does not say this.
- Thread starter ushalk
- Start date
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
'For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.'
(Rom.7:14)
'Because the carnal mind
is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be.'
(Rom.8:7)
'And I, brethren,
could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,
but as unto carnal,
even as unto babes in Christ.'
(1Cor.3:1)
'For ye are yet carnal:
for whereas there is among you
envying, and strife, and divisions,
are ye not carnal,
and walk as men?'
(1Cor.3:3)
'For while one saith,
I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos;
are ye not carnal?'
(1Cor.3:4)
See also:-
Rom_15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
1Cor.9:11; If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
2Cor.10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Heb_7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb_9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
---------------------------
Hi there, ushalk,
* 'Spiritual' is contrasted with 'Carnal', as is, 'flesh' and 'spirit'.
* Carnality is characterized by 'envying', 'strife' and 'division'.
* Carnal ordinances, commandments, carnal warfare, and carnal things, are those things which spring from the realm of the flesh, and not spirit.
Hope this is helpful.
In Christ Jesus
Complete
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
Hello, ushalk,
If we are truly saved by grace, then we are no longer in our sin: although sin does still dwell in us; for if we say we have no sin, then we lie, and the truth is not in us. The Holy Spirit, Who indwells us, by means of the new nature which we have received from above, convicts us of sin and of righteousness, and gives us no rest until we turn away from our sinful ways. I have certainly known this in my own experience.
Our standing before God is sure, because it is based on sure promises, and on the blood of Christ which cleanses us from all sin. However, our state is quite another thing, and we will have to give an account of our manner of life and witness before the Lord Jesus Christ one day, and will receive either reward or loss as appropriate.
Our eternal life is God's gift to us, and is sure, for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
We will all 'live' with Him, but we will not all 'reign' with Him.
In Christ Jesus
Complete
so you believe that we can just go around living like the devil and never change anything in our lives and God is going to say oh ok come on in? So the words of Jesus are false when he talks about repentance and 1 Cor. 6: 9-10 plus the many others are false. Hmm, I am definitely not in agreement with you on this. It is my experience that when I sin I feel convicted and sorrow feels my heart. If this is something that people are not feeling then I believe they may want to take a look at their heart. I guess I will go out and rob and kill and sleep with married women and destroy families and never stop. I mean after all I will still go to heaven for it. Well now I am wondering what the point of Jesus dying on the cross was for? The bible states it is to cleanse us of our sins. But you say it just doesn't even matter. Well I am going back to my old self. After all Jesus does not have the power to truly cleanse me of my sins and sick flesh mind. You said so.
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
[B said:
'Who art thou that judgest another man's servant?
to his own master he standeth or falleth.
Yea, he shall be holden up:
for God is able to make him stand.'
(Rom.14:4)
Hi, Ushalk,
Our lines are crossing a little, I feel. You have misunderstood me.
* The Lord knows those who are His - That is important I feel.
We do not know men's hearts, We see the fruit of their lives and we think we can make judgments concerning what is in their heart, the genuineness of their faith for example, but we could be so, so, wrong. I believe that the conviction and sorrow of heart you say you feel when you come under conviction is the experience of every true child of God.
Who are these Christians living such ungodly lives, Ushalk? If you know any, and God has laid them on your heart, I believe it is to bring them before Him in prayer, and not to condemn them or cast doubt upon the validity of their profession of faith. It is not our business to do that, our work is to believe God, and to lay hold on the promises which we and, 'please God,' they too, have been promised - in Christ Jesus.
'For ye see your calling, brethren,
how that not many wise men after the flesh,
not many mighty,
not many noble,
are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world
to confound the wise;
and God hath chosen the weak things of the world
to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world,
and things which are despised,
hath God chosen,
yea, and things which are not,
to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in His presence.
But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
Who of God is made unto us wisdom,
and righteousness,
and sanctification,
and redemption:
That, according as it is written,
He that glorieth,
let him glory in the Lord.'
(1 Cor. 1:26-31)
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Complete
Now I agree with this point. Very good. However, I am not condemning them. It is the pastors teaching such garbage to make them feel good that I am concerned with. They are the ones telling people that they do not have to repent. That is not what the Bible states.
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
Hi Ushalk,
I am going to start a thread on the subject of 'repentance', perhaps you will join me there.
In Christ Jesus
Complete
Thiscrosshurts
Active
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,630
Is that what stops you from doing those things?
I found that walking in love,faith and trust seems to simply cancel out wrong desires.
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
I realize you are paraphrasing scripture, but could you elaborate on this a bit more. What do you mean exactly? Or I could say, what does this mean to you?
Blessings!
Travis
I was using that as an example of what these garbage gospels being taught tell people.
I would love too. it is very serious for us to repent.
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
Forgive me, Travis, I did not see this until today.
You asked me to elaborate on my words (quote) 'We will all 'live' with Him, but we will not all 'reign' with Him.'
I believe that the gift of life, in Christ Jesus, is ours, and will not be taken away from us. We will live with Him, in resurrection.
It is my understanding that although 'life', eternal, resurrection life is promised to us, and sure. Reigning with Him is not. That is a reward for faithfulness.
' It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with Him, we shall also live with Him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him:
if we deny Him, He also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful:
He cannot deny Himself.'
(2 Tim. 2:11)
He 'abideth faithful'. The denial spoken of, I believe, is in regard to reigning, it is a matter of faithfulness even when it involves suffering for His Name and glory's sake, the reward for that faithfulness, is the added glory of 'reigning' with Him.
Yet, my understanding is feeble at best, and must be judged in the light of Scripture, Travis.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris (Complete)
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
Not a problem,
So would you say that those who are assigned a place in outer darkness (Matthew 8:12) are those who were not faithful enough to reign with Christ, and must therefore wait until his 1000 year reign is up to be reconciled with him?
Blessings,
Travis
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
' ... When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed,
"Verily I say unto you,
I have not found so great faith,
no, not in Israel.
And I say unto you,
That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness:
there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
(Mat 8:10-12)
Hi Travis,
In this passage from Matthew 8, our Lord 'marvels' at the faith found in the centurion, a gentile, who had come to him in search of healing, and contrasts it with the lack of faith among those to whom He had come: among the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He then gives a word of prophecy, concerning the millennial reign, when Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, their Fathers, would sit down in the Kingdom which is from Heaven, along with all who, like them looked for His coming again to restore the Kingdom to Israel.
At the time He spoke, He had come to them, only to be rejected, both as Prophet, Priest, and King, and would be put to death, at their hand, and the longed for restoration would have to wait for a future day. Those of the nations would then flock to it, too, as the priestly office, divinely appointed is carried out by a redeemed Israel, but those who are unbelieving from their number will be cast out into outer darkness. What is that, 'outer darkness', but the world outside of that glorious Kingdom, lit as it will be by the presence of God. No wonder there will be 'weeping and gnashing of teeth', in that day.
'And the city had no need of the sun,
neither of the moon, to shine in it:
for the glory of God did lighten it,
and the Lamb is the light thereof.
And the nations of them which are saved
shall walk in the light of it:
and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day:
for there shall be no night there.
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth,
neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie:
but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.'
(Rev 21:23-27)
I hope that this is what you wanted, Travis.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord, and Head.
Chris (Complete)
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
Hi Chris,
Well, I did not feel like that was a very complete answer. I think my question was fairly straightforward.
When one does dodge around things, when asked to clarify, that does at least say something though, I suppose. So I would say I at least got part of my answer.
Thank you,
Travis
complete
Loyal
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2009
- Messages
- 3,230
Well, I did not feel like that was a very complete answer. I think my question was fairly straightforward.
When one does dodge around things, when asked to clarify, that does at least say something though, I suppose. So I would say I at least got part of my answer.
Thank you,
Travis[/QUOTE]
Hi Travis,
I think I may have been guilty of 'dodging around' this subject, but only in the endeavor to get to grips with it myself, but I obviously failed.
The question you asked was, 'So would you say that those who are assigned a place in outer darkness (Matthew 8:12) are those who were not faithful enough to reign with Christ, and must therefore wait until his 1000 year reign is up to be reconciled with him?'
The reference to 'weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth' refer not to a 'state' or condition, but to a definite occasion and time when this event shall take place. It is used by the Lord seven times:-
Mat. 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat.24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luk. 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Firstly, these words do not apply to members of the Church, who are 'in Christ', it has to do with Israel and the Kingdom.
This is the outcome of judgement passed, and is not a matter of unfaithfulness,is it, Travis? Neither does it appear to have reconciliation as an outcome. If you can enlighten me, Travis, concerning this, I would be glad, for I obviously do not have sufficient knowledge of this subject to comment adequately upon it.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
When one does dodge around things, when asked to clarify, that does at least say something though, I suppose. So I would say I at least got part of my answer.
Thank you,
Travis[/QUOTE]
Hi Travis,
I think I may have been guilty of 'dodging around' this subject, but only in the endeavor to get to grips with it myself, but I obviously failed.
The question you asked was, 'So would you say that those who are assigned a place in outer darkness (Matthew 8:12) are those who were not faithful enough to reign with Christ, and must therefore wait until his 1000 year reign is up to be reconciled with him?'
The reference to 'weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth' refer not to a 'state' or condition, but to a definite occasion and time when this event shall take place. It is used by the Lord seven times:-
Mat. 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat.24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat. 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luk. 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Firstly, these words do not apply to members of the Church, who are 'in Christ', it has to do with Israel and the Kingdom.
This is the outcome of judgement passed, and is not a matter of unfaithfulness,is it, Travis? Neither does it appear to have reconciliation as an outcome. If you can enlighten me, Travis, concerning this, I would be glad, for I obviously do not have sufficient knowledge of this subject to comment adequately upon it.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
tomatobeta
Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2014
- Messages
- 5
"Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth."
Zechariah 14:12
Zechariah 14:12
