God's foreknowledge or God's election, or God's something else?

[Nang]

Just side note, not to detract from the post as whole too much:

Job 13:15 (AMP)
15 [I do it because, though He slay me, yet will I wait for and trust Him and] behold, He will slay me; I have no hope—nevertheless, I will maintain and argue my ways before Him and even to His face.​

I believe that Job was saying that he is not going to back down from maintaining his position that he was walking upright and righteously before God. His accusers told him he must have done something wrong, that God would never do this to a person unless they had sinned against him greatly. Job wouldn't back down and agree with them, he stood firm in the fact that he had walked uprightly before God. God's own words earlier in the chapter support this, though Job didn't know about these things until afterwords.

As we see later, no man stands before God justified. Even all of Jobs own righteousness was as filthy rags. But, Job was correct in saying that all the evil that came upon him was not because he was full of secret sin as was proposed by the others, but because of the fact that Satan was being shown up by God, something beyond all their understanding. Job was right to maintain his stance. It was more than a bit arrogant of him to think he could actually stand before the God of the universe and actually show Him up though. That idea is quite laughable, and obviously didn't work out so well for Job. Job was wrong to think he could argue with the Lord even though he was right about the fact that all these things did not come upon him because of faults of his own. Job was right that his ways were indeed upright though.

I hope I made that make sense? Meh,

Blessings!

Travis

Job was standing for his testimony as a faithful believer in the sovereignty, faithfulness, and power of God.

 

[Nang]

Romans 8:29
For those God previously knew, the Jews, he also predestined to be conformed to the image...

With all due respect:

You are adding language to Romans 8:29, which, within its context, is unsubstantiated.

Those predestined to be conformed to the image of of Christ, prove to be all believers; both Jew and Gentile . . a remnant called out from all nationalities.

Revelation 5:9; 7:9

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

It's what is in your heart NOW that counts.

I can certainly agree with that.
"Now" is eternal,there is no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
So if you are in darkness or torment "now" you are in eternal darkness.
Eternal life "is" to know God and the One whom God sent.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

If your stuck in time and space then hang on,it's coming.
There is an alternative:I am now in Christ.

 

[Byfaith]

OK DHC, you exhaust me. All I can say and stand by is my God is all powerful and capable of ANYTHING! perhaps not so to you...God Bless!

It could be possible that you need to learn and grow more, and God is not defined by what you want to believe. You need to listen to others and learn some things. To say things that You have a different God, or someone elses God may not be as powerful shows a great lack of immaturity.

. Job was wrong to think he could argue with the Lord even though he was right about the fact that all these things did not come upon him because of faults of his own

Why not give the man room to speak? If I had something I thought the Lord had shown me, I would sure want people to at least hear me out in full before they rejected me.

Let him finish?

Wow, RJ is something else. My goal is not to diminish God, it's to defend him (Not that God needs defending) One thing about foreknowledge that states God knows what a person will choose by free choice and know that person will end up in hell, is also to say God knows he can't do a thing about it. That can't be the case.

I have shown, God searches and knows the heart of man and deals with man according to man's heart toward him. It's not foreknowledge, not election. Now if several scriptures say that, then other scriptures that look like they say different must match perfectly. Nothing in scripture contradicts, right? So there has to be answer here, things we can look at and consider.

JOB:

Not Job's fault. Things happen for a reason, the man had his children murdered, was made sick, lost all his money that He had into all his farm animals. The Sabeans and Chaladeans both came in suddenly and helped themselves, then what was left a fire came down and burned up all the sheep.

Now if not Job's fault, then think Travis, who are we pinning the blame on there? Now if the devil did it, then the devil needed a place. If God did it, then it would be the first and only time God treated someone this way who did actually serve him. All through the OT, God turned his back on those who would not listen and obey. Satan had a field day with them. God said Job was a upright man though.

According to Elihu, the only one that spoke right about God, it was Job's fault.

We are not talking about Job of course in the thread, but it sort of runs along the theme of Calvinism (Election) that God does what He wants to who He wants despite what He said in scriptures.

God said choose, Death or life, Blessings or cursing.......... Choose life, that your seed (Children) may life. God change his mind about this concerning Job?

Thank you for the consideration Travis and defense. I am asking for judgement of how I am presenting things, not asking to be judged and told my god is a different God that someone elses.

Blessings Brother, thank you. will get ready to break down Adam, the connecting issue tomorrow. Helping someone get their CD out, Amazing singer.

 

[Travis]

Wow, RJ is something else.

RJ is my brother


Any who, Job. Job did a good job being Job and doing his job at following after God. He lost a lot more than his job, he lost everything. Who's fault was it? Wrong question. Who was responsible? God. God allowed satan his desire to sift job like wheat. God didn't ask job first or even warn him or explain anything to him. That's cause God is God, and Job is not, it's not Jobs job to be God. Job deserved eternal damnation apart from God. The blood of the lamb isn't bound by time, so Job didn't get what he deserved. From the context of the discussion Job was having with his "friends", Job didn't deserve what he got. And it wasn't their job to tell Job he did.

Job was/is a righteous man.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Adam.

 

[Byfaith]

RJ is my brother


Any who, Job. Job did a good job being Job and doing his job at following after God. He lost a lot more than his job, he lost everything. Who's fault was it? Wrong question. Who was responsible? God. God allowed satan his desire to sift job like wheat. God didn't ask job first or even warn him or explain anything to him. That's cause God is God, and Job is not, it's not Jobs job to be God. Job deserved eternal damnation apart from God. The blood of the lamb isn't bound by time, so Job didn't get what he deserved. From the context of the discussion Job was having with his "friends", Job didn't deserve what he got. And it wasn't their job to tell Job he did.

Job was/is a righteous man.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Adam.

RJ is like a flesh and blood brother? Is he younger?

Ya, have company now, and will get to Adam.

Have you considered instead of saying God "Allowed" Satan as it was not just allowing. Many folks die in horrible ways every day. Scripture says most of them folks are without Hope, without God in this world. God is not even keeping tabs on these folks and Satan uses them for a throw rug.

Jesus said ye are of your Father the devil. Big bad Mr. god of this World. To accuse the brethern though, Satan had to go to God. You just don't mess with God's folks. (Rev 12)

so............ to say God allowed the devil to get Job, one would have to ask why? Job was not like the heathen who did not serve God.

Now since you say the Blood is not bound by time, then you have to believe the Word is the Same today, forever and with God from the start.

So, since the Word is eternal and forever, then would it be possible to be Job's fault, and God's hands were tied because He is not going to violate what he said?
That is what Elihu said, God does not pervert Judgement, Job was rendered according to his ways.

I mean 52 times we are told to Fear not.
48 times we are told not to be afraid.
be of good courage.
Be careful for nothing (worry)
Take no thought (Matt 6)

You can't tell me we can violate all those scriptures and blame God when things go wrong. Right?

I mean if we are told not to steal and rob a bank. Was that God giving the devil permission to put us in Jail?

Job violates over 100 some scriptures, and it's God's fault?

For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
(Job 3:25)

No................... Satan said You put your hands on him God, and he will bless you (Translated curse for some odd reason Barak)

God said I am not harming Job, Pay attention stupid, all Job has is in your power, but harming Job is without cause. (Job 2:3)

Go check that out again Brother. God would never do what your suggesting he might have done.

Adam tomorrow!!!! Be blessed.

 

[Curtis]

1Co 2:9.. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard those things the Lord HAS PREPARED for those that love him.
This is one of the most quoted scriptures in the Bible, and we always stop right here at this verse. But, the next verse tells us a whole different story......

1Co 2:10.. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

This changes every thing as God from the beginning prepared something for his Church, and every individual member. This is a done deal. In other words what we are going to get in the future has already been prepared for the Church from the beginning of time!!!! Surely God knew the beginning from the end, because the end is exactly what was finished from the beginning!!!
The Apostle Paul "quoted" this scripture from the old testament, but for some unknown reason he did not quote all of it. Here it is......

Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

So what is waiting for us in the end was what was completed in the beginning, before the world was created!!! The beginning and the end are exactly the same. The only difference is the time that is
in between the beginning and the end. If you take away the time, the beginning and the end merge into one!!! Time it self is only a momentary "speed bump" in eternity!!!

Have ever wondered how Jesus knew all those to whom his Father gave him would come to him?
Wait a minute.......When did God the Father give us to Jesus?

Joh 10:27.. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28.. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29.. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

At what point in time did God the Father give Jesus his Church? Every single person God the Father gave to Jesus will come to him guaranteed!!!

This scripture tells us when the Father gave us, his Church to Jesus. It was not in a time, but before the world was created!!!!

Psa 2:6.. "As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill."
Psa 2:7.. I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you.
Psa 2:8.. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession.

The very first thing God did in the beginning before creation was to bring forth "Wisdom" which is Jesus Christ as his begotten, and that through him create all things visible and invisible through him (the Word)
In the beginning was the Word. Before God created anything, God the Father turned to his Son Jesus Christ and told him to, "ask me for the nations and I will give them to you for your inheritance, even the ends of the world for his possession!!!
What are these "nations"? Every single tongue, and people that would exist on planet earth. A very specific group of people known only by God the Father for his Son Jesus Christ to be his Church!!!!
Did Jesus ever ask his Father for these "nations"? Absolutely YES!!!! How do we know Jesus actually got his prayer answered?

Rev 7:9.. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10.. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

The word, “nations”, means "ethnic groups of the world, different races of peoples".
Does God really know according to his "foreknowledge" every single person who will actually accept his Son for salvation before the world began? Absolutely YES!!! In fact, salvation could never be possible without knowing who these people were before the creation of the world, whose names where written in the "lambs Book of Life" from the foundation of the world!!!!!
Salvation given to man was not given in this time based world, but in eternity as it says in this scripture........

2Ti 1:8.. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9.. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

If any man who was not in Christ from the foundation of the world will not be saved, even though all men have the same opportunity to be saved according to their own free will. The Lord knew from the beginning who they would be according to his foreknowledge. There is nothing any man can do no matter at what time in history or eternity that he does not know!!!

Jesus came into this world bearing "precious" seed with in himself which was his Church that his Father gave him from the beginning of time!!! Jesus even said.......

Joh 12:24.. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus was referring to himself as that "seed". If he would die, he would bring forth much fruit from the seeds that were within himself!!! That us his Church!!!
Is there any scripture showing his "seed", his "church" within Christ (the Word) from the beginning?

John 1:1.. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2.. The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3.. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4.. In him was life; and the life was the light of men

There was "life" in the Word that was in the beginning. What exactly was the life that was inside the Word? The scripture tells exactly what that life was, "the life was the light of men"!!!!!!!!!!!!
Men were living in the Word that was in the beginning, Who were those men ? Christ's Church which his Father gave him from the beginning!!!!!!!

If God does did not know the end from the beginning then salvation for man was impossible. But thank God he is all knowing, and we are his saints from the beginning which he knew before time began!!!!
We were saved and called before the world began!!!!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

RJ is my brother


Any who, Job. Job did a good job being Job and doing his job at following after God. He lost a lot more than his job, he lost everything. Who's fault was it? Wrong question. Who was responsible? God. God allowed satan his desire to sift job like wheat. God didn't ask job first or even warn him or explain anything to him. That's cause God is God, and Job is not, it's not Jobs job to be God. Job deserved eternal damnation apart from God. The blood of the lamb isn't bound by time, so Job didn't get what he deserved. From the context of the discussion Job was having with his "friends", Job didn't deserve what he got. And it wasn't their job to tell Job he did.

Job was/is a righteous man.

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Adam.

Not true at all. God never gave satan permission to do anything.
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.

Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.

Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)

We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.

We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....

I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.

1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.

2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.

3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.

4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.

5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.

Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....

First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.

Now lets look at two verses here.

Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.

And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.

We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips. ( )

2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?

Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"

See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...

The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.

Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD....This is why it was written Job never sinned for job never cursed God..Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Byfaith]

Have ever wondered how Jesus knew all those to whom his Father gave him would come to him?
Wait a minute.......When did God the Father give us to Jesus?

Joh 10:27.. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28.. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29.. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Curtis, are you going for election? God picks those who should be saved?

I can go through you whole post with scriptures you used and prove that is not the case, or even Foreknowledge, but you seem to favor election by the way you read things.

Let me know. I don't want to detract from your post, but if you want to see those scriptures in a different light, then tell me.

You have other scripture that describes How the Father gave them to Jesus. Often times when wanting to believe on thing we miss other things. Jesus nearly said the same thing, but there was a condition to it. All scripture must match perfectly.

Let me know as I said. If you want to learn possibly, otherwise thank you for sharing here.

be blessed Curtis.

 

[Byfaith]

Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD....This is why it was written Job never sinned for job never cursed God..Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
Blessings

Great post there right? Perfect. Thank you for that.

I would like you to go examine that Job never cursed God part. Grab you a strongs concordance and look up that Hebrew Word. Then examine what Job said. Then Look at Job 1:21 and the Holy Spirit jumping in verse 1:22 defending Job.

It's like Satan to accuse someone who has no revelation of what they did. God examines the heart though, and Job was not guilty. Barak is an very Old Hebrew Word. It's best meaning from secular understanding means to Salute back for something done. To acknowledge back.

You got that right though. Job sacrificed all those barn animals out of fear of loss. The day Satan attacked was the start of it. It was the day His sons and daughters had gathered together. Satan can only take the place given.

Blessing Brother. Great insight.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Great post there right? Perfect. Thank you for that.

I would like you to go examine that Job never cursed God part. Grab you a strongs concordance and look up that Hebrew Word. Then examine what Job said. Then Look at Job 1:21 and the Holy Spirit jumping in verse 1:22 defending Job.

It's like Satan to accuse someone who has no revelation of what they did. God examines the heart though, and Job was not guilty. Barak is an very Old Hebrew Word. It's best meaning from secular understanding means to Salute back for something done. To acknowledge back.

You got that right though. Job sacrificed all those barn animals out of fear of loss. The day Satan attacked was the start of it. It was the day His sons and daughters had gathered together. Satan can only take the place given.

Blessing Brother. Great insight.

Amen !! Something that has been bugging me is all the born again spirit filled believers who do not believe how the enemy works and how important to not only our faith but our prayers and well entire walk with God is - Walking in Love and Forgiveness.
Have a great night or day what ever it is. lol
Blessings
Jim

 

[Travis]

Not true at all. God never gave satan permission to do anything.
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.

Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.

Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)

We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.

We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....

I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.

1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.

2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.

3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.

4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.

5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.

Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....

First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.

Now lets look at two verses here.

Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.

And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.

We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips. ( )

2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?

Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"

See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...

The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.

Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD....This is why it was written Job never sinned for job never cursed God..Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
Blessings
Jim

Hi Jim,

Welcome back

 

[Travis]

RJ is like a flesh and blood brother?

RJ is my brother in Christ Jesus

 

[RJ]

RJ is like a flesh and blood brother? Is he younger?

No he meant a spiritual brother and I am 66.

 

[RJ]

One thing about foreknowledge that states God knows what a person will choose by free choice and know that person will end up in hell, is also to say God knows he can't do a thing about it. That can't be the case.

That is pure silliness. God gives each, choice. He offers truth and a gift. It can't be a gift, if he forces a person to choose. No, God cries that you won't choose him, but he is determined to give each of us a choice. Think about it, if God is pure perfect love, what kind of love would it be for him to force someone into a choice.Other than those who genuinely choose him, why would he surround himself with others that he forced or manipulated to choose. ..What kind of God is that, you make no sense!

It could be possible that you need to learn and grow more, and God is not defined by what you want to believe. You need to listen to others and learn some things

• No, it is not what I believe as much as who he is!
  
• Before you label me with names, Why don't you give us your explanation of what God being ALL powerful means?
• Knowing God so well as you purport, why don't you explain to the rest of us what God being Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent mean?
• Please, if you will, answer the above 2 questions directly and don't skirt around them.

 

[RJ]

RJ is my brother in Christ Jesus

• Yes, Travis and I can disagree on an occasion, but we are MATURE enough to agree to disagree, and after all, confirm in each other that Jesus is Lord and Savior and thus claim brotherhood.
• Byfaith, you said this of me: RJ is like a flesh and blood brother? Byfaith, do you claim that Jesus is Solus Christos , Lord and Savior and, therefore, are we not spiritual brothers as well?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

*[[Job 1:8]] KJP* And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one who feareth God, and shunneth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] LOGOS* And the Lord said to him, “Have you diligently considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on all the earth, a blameless man, true, godly, abstaining from everything evil?”

*[[Job 1:8]] ASV* And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

*[[Job 1:8]] KJV* And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] RNKJV* And יהוה said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth Elohim, and escheweth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] Webster* And the LORD said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] Coverdale* Then sayde the LORDE vnto Satha: hast thou not considered my seruaunt Iob, how that he is an innocet and vertuous ma: soch one as feareth God, and eschueth euell, and that there is none like him in the londe?

*[[Job 1:8]] Tanakh* וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהוָה֙ אֶל־הַשָּׂטָ֔ן הֲשַׂ֥מְתָּ לִבְּךָ֖ עַל־עַבְדִּ֣י אִיּ֑וֹב כִּ֣י אֵ֤ין כָּמֹ֙הוּ֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ אִ֣ישׁ תָּ֧ם וְיָשָׁ֛ר יְרֵ֥א אֱלֹהִ֖ים וְסָ֥ר מֵרָֽע׃

*[[Job 1:8]] Wycliffe* And the Lord seide to hym, Whether thou hast biholde my seruaunt Joob, that noon in erthe is lyik hym; he is a symple man, and riytful, and dredynge God, and goynge awei fro yuel?

*[[Job 1:8]] ISV* Then the LORD asked Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on earth. The man is blameless as well as upright. He fears God and keeps away from evil.”

*[[Job 1:8]] Great* And the Lorde sayde vnto Sathan: hast thou not considered my seruaunt Iob, how that there is none lyke him in the land? a perfect & a iust man: soch a one as feareth God, and exchueth euell?

*[[Job 1:8]] EasyEnglish* Then the LORD asked Satan, ‘You have seen Job, who is my servant. What do you think about him? There is no one on earth that is like him. He is a very good person. He is afraid to make me angry and he obeys me. He refuses to do things that are wrong.’

They all say the same so why change what is written?

*[[Job 1:8]] SV* En de HEERE zeide tot den satan: Hebt gij ook acht geslagen op Mijn knecht Job? Want niemand is op de aarde gelijk hij, een man oprecht en vroom, godvrezende en wijkende van het kwaad.

We need to thank the LORD that these blokes didn't add their own reasoning to His words

*[[Job 1:8]] LXXA* καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ κύριος προσέσχες τῇ διανοίᾳ σου κατὰ τοῦ παιδός μου ιωβ ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν κατ' αὐτὸν τῶν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἄνθρωπος ἄμεμπτος ἀληθινός θεοσεβής ἀπεχόμενος ἀπὸ παντὸς πονηροῦ πράγματος

And do likewise.

Bless you ....><>

*[[Job 1:8]] 和合本* 耶和华问撒但说：「你曾用心察看我的仆人约伯没有？地上再没有人象他完全正直，敬畏　神，远离恶事。」

*[[Job 1:8]] SLT* And Jehovah will say to the adversary, Didst thou set thy heart to my servant Job? for none like him in the earth; a man blameless and upright, fearing God and departing from evil.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis, are you going for election? God picks those who should be saved?

God's "elect" are those to whom God knew from the foundation of the world who would of their own free will choice accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Election, or predestination has absolutely nothing to do with God causing or forcing people to be saved. Salvation is given to any one who believes the Gospel.

 

[Curtis]

Do not fall into the trap in thinking God "commissioned" Satan to bring things upon Job, which is not the case. There is a huge difference between God "permitting", and God " commissioning" some thing to happen. The Lord "permitted" Satan to bring affliction upon Job, but he did NOT tell him to!!!
Job was not sinless, as he was a sinner just like Abraham, and King David who suffered greatly because of his sins. God did not deal with the old testament saints according their sins, but according of their "faith", The word "behold" means "to look". God simply said to Satan, "look he is in your hands".God did not place Job into Satan hands, as he was already there.

If you think Job had no sin then how are you going to reconcile these scripture together?

Job 1:8.. Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Rom 3:23.. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

God never one time said if you curse him, you die. All made up in Job's head.

I don't think it's wise to speculate what was in Job's head,he may have not had a perfect knowledge of the nature of God as father.
Jesus said all who came before me were thieves and robbers and Job may have known that and so had reason to be on guard.

God said all Job's friends were wrong so I'm not sure why think God could not have revealed to Job there was a hole in his hedge.
This story happened for our benefit not because Job did anything wrong.

Job 42:7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.
Job 42:8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.”
Job 42: 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

"Now" I think some of you guys owe Job an apology.