If salvation is by faith alone, then are Satanists saved?

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Please, to make such an accusation, show proof!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:, please show me were I used Jn 3:16 in any of my discussions with Curtis?!

Good advice anytime, Curtis is culpable here too, why nothing said to him?

What, this is, are you saying that the written word of God has different meanings?

This is not about with Curtis. What abot cats with no tails and tails and satan and demons and belive.

Why are you so mad? Is it because I fundamentally disagree with some of your theology!

RJ,
Happy and Blessed Easter Brother,
I was laughing so hard when I was writing that reply and was not angry..............
Between the examples of 99 percent of cats with tails and demons believing and not saved and so forth.

The word believe like any other word has more then one meaning or context AND can be used in different ways as well.
Yes demons BELIVE that Jesus is the son of God
Yes if you believe in Jesus and ask Him to be your Lord and SAVIOR....you are saved. point blank.

There is no dispute over the word believe. The believing in the different scriptures are of different levels or types or uses of the word believe... One scripture does not make the other void.......
Thats all I was ever saying.....

 

[KingJ]

do you think that it is impossible for a person to believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord and yet not love Him?

Well lets be clear that we are not God. We can only judge actions. We can see mortal sins 1 Cor 5:1 / shipwrecking salvation 1 Tim 1:19 / trampling Jesus underfoot Heb 10:29.

There is a strong argument to be made that God knows who are His / accepting Him is the greatest depth of intent possible / minimum depth of intent needed to eternally secure being with Him and He keeps His guarded against falling away. Along the lines of James 5:20 and 1 Cor 10:13. OSAS from God's perspective. Never ours. God knew all the while that we would trample Him underfoot, that we would leave the faith. To us perhaps it was never faith on par with the others. But of course this is all speculation from me. We cannot grasp God's greatness Job 9:3, nor His goodness. Can anyone here grasp how an omniscient God that has evil in His universe, have no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5? Free will is scriptural. What God wants us to know and believe. But a concept that blows our minds when we think for too long on His omniscience. Can some truly claim to believe Jesus is Lord and yet not believe He is Lord like I do? Only God knows for sure.

Paul has the same dilemma in belief I believe. He makes it clear to us in Rom 9 that God is omniscient / omnipotent / does not make mistakes / is in full control. Yet throughout his teachings he is clear to us to continue working out our salvation and judging ourselves harshly / truthfully Phil 2:12, 1 Cor 11:31. Never to be confident and say 'we have made it' 1 Cor 10:12. Constantly warning us to not fall away and be removed from the fellowship.

 

[KingJ]

but I think there are evil people who love darkness rather than light and even though they believe in their heart they still do not love and yet are not saved.

I would differentiate between those that believe in Jesus vs those that believe in Jesus. Just like the classic verse of the one that touched Jesus Luke 8:45 Who touched me?" Jesus asked. When they all denied it, Peter said, "Master, the people are crowding and pressing against you." . The disciples must have thought Jesus was mad.

To the wicked Jesus could be nothing more then the title we give our God. They can believe this in their hearts.

But then as I mentioned in another thread. We have the OT. The Jews were His people and they worshipped a golden calf. Their names were blotted out of the Lambs book of life. Meaning they were there originally. God is not partial that He would treat His people this way OT and us in the NT differently. Partial is evil. Of course as mentioned in my post above...what if God knew these Jews would be blotted out and never interacted with them on a similar level as He did with Moses and others that survived? This discussion is headache material!

 

[RJ]

do you think that it is impossible for a person to believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord and yet not love Him?

This is fundamentally a flawed concept. Biblically the term, " to believe in your heart" means to have Jesus in your heart. A house divided can not stand, to believe in your heart is to love Jesus!

 

[RJ]

but I think there are evil people who love darkness rather than light and even though they believe in their heart they still do not love and yet are not saved.

Again, with regards to very basic and fundamental salvation theology, your concept is erroneous. You can't be an evil doer, love darkness and at the same time believe in your heart! Fundamental to Christianity is to believe, is to have Christ in your heart and it is impossible to believe and not love Jesus and be saved. Theoretically, if there are two types of Christians, being a Head Christian or being a Heart Christian, which one would you be?

 

[KingJ]

I guess we could say that our cross is "denying our self". I must decrease and he must increase!

In Matt 16:24 Jesus gave us three instructions. 1 Deny ourselves, 2. carry our cross and 3. follow Him. I heard it explained that denying ourselves is like choosing to work at an orphanage over being a successful lawyer or accountant. Carrying our cross would be going to the orphanage daily and accepting that this is where God wants us. Following Him would be forgiving, loving, caring / being Christ to those at the orphanage.

 

[KingJ]

Again, with regards to very basic and fundamental salvation theology, your concept is erroneous. You can't be an evil doer, love darkness and at the same time believe in your heart! Fundamental to Christianity is to believe, is to have Christ in your heart and it is impossible to believe and not love Jesus and be saved. Theoretically, if there are two types of Christians, being a Head Christian or being a Heart Christian, which one would you be?

I agree with the underlined. Can we then agree that a Christian should never be one who continues in mortal sins or for a while unrepentant venial sin? This side of heaven it really does not matter whether we are Arminian or OSAS. All that really matters is that we can only know people by their works and that we must judge ourselves truthfully / continue examining ourselves.

If we don't hate what is evil and cling to what is good our love is not genuine Rom 12:9, fullstop. We can argue OSAS vs Arminian all day long and it is as meaningful as the price of eggs.

 

[RJ]

Can we then agree that a Christian should never be one who continues in mortal sins or for a while unrepentant venial sin?

I can and do! But, I feel that it goes further, a true "Born Again" Christian can't continue is unrepentant sin!

 

[KingJ]

I can and do! But, I feel that it goes further, a true "Born Again" Christian can't continue is unrepentant sin!

Yes. I can agree with that. We take offence with the same kinds of people. Those that want OSAS as a license to sin.

 

[RJ]

Yes. I can agree with that. We take offence with the same kinds of people. Those that want OSAS as a license to sin.

Yes, I understand that and have heard it many times, but I have yet met a person who believes in OSAS to the point that they think it is a license to sin. They must exist, I just have never met one! To think that goes back to being unrepentant and that is no true Christian.....I am very repentant, continue in my regenerated / repentant heart, but I believe in OSAS!

 

[KingJ]

Yes, I understand that and have heard it many times, but I have yet met a person who believes in OSAS to the point that they think it is a license to sin. They must exist, I just have never met one! To think that goes back to being unrepentant and that is no true Christian.....I am very repentant, continue in my regenerated / repentant heart, but I believe in OSAS!

Wouldn't every Christian in mortal sin qualify?

The strongest argument I have heard for OSAS is of the criminal next to Jesus on the cross. Accepting Jesus in your dying breaths and then guaranteed eternal bliss vs accepting Jesus and then being kept on earth by God to be used for His purposes (doing more then the criminal on the cross) at the risk of losing our salvation = makes no sense unless God is partial.

Then the bottom of post # 63 is mine for anti OSAS :laugh: :laugh:.

OSAS and anti OSAS can both produce a God that seems partial. The only truth is that God is not partial. I think we are trying to grasp what we cannot grasp. God knows, we do not. We don't have to be nervous of losing our salvation, but we must take judging ourselves to ensure we are in Christ, seriously. That's all there is to it imho. We take both the OSAS and anti OSAS scripture and put them together!

 

[RJ]

Wouldn't every Christian in mortal sin qualify?

This original thread is about salvation by grace alone, OSAS is another subject! In that light, what did you mean: every Christin in mortal sin qualify...qualify for what? ..Do you mean qualify for unrepentant sin?

 

[KingJ]

This original thread is about salvation by grace alone, OSAS is another subject! In that light, what did you mean: every Christin in mortal sin qualify...qualify for what? ..Do you mean qualify for unrepentant sin?

You said you havn't met anyone who believes in OSAS and uses it as a license to sin. I am proposing to you that every mortal sinner that attends church has to believe in OSAS.

This thread is 'salvation by faith alone'....that may as well read ''once faith / saved always saved'' :whistle.

 

[RJ]

You said you havn't met anyone who believes in OSAS and uses it as a license to sin. I am proposing to you that every GLBT that attends church believe in OSAS.

Dear Brother, then my point would be that they DO NOT have a repentant heart, are , in fact, unrepentant and therefore not saved.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
This should not tarnish those of us who are "Born Again", truly posses a repentant heart and believe in OSAS!
Please read Romans 7 and see where Paul struggled with doing right (sin) and read his answer in Romans 8:1!

 

[KingJ]

Dear Brother, then my point would be that they DO NOT have a repentant heart, are , in fact, unrepentant and therefore not saved.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
This should not tarnish those of us who are "Born Again", truly posses a repentant heart and believe in OSAS!
Please read Romans 7 and see where Paul struggled with doing right (sin) and read his answer in Romans 8:1!

I wish all held to your view of OSAS! :thumbsup:

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The work God demands is that we believe on the one whom God sent.
One would need to know about the one whom God sent and the work he accomplished.
That would include defeating the forces of darkness so a Satanist would have to believe he would be defeated with them.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
This foundation has already been finished and all we can do is acknowledge that grace laid that foundation.


1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
1 Corinthians 3:13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it
is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

You can suffer loss and still be saved so it's not black and white.
You can also reap rewards for more noble things.
It is quite conceivable that God has spies in the Satanist movement that don't yet know they are spies.

 

[RJ]

If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Any work that you may have had upon being saved by Christ, will eventually be burned up because God can't accept anything outside of those works of Christ through you, but you yourself are now a believer and will be saved!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Any work that you may have had upon being saved by Christ, will eventually be burned up because God can't accept anything outside of those works of Christ through you, but you yourself are now a believer and will be saved!

Any work done to be accepted are filthy rags.

.1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
I feel that this verse shows that once we know we are accepted we are still capable of producing works that can be burnt.
But works done out of a right heart and mindset are more noble.

 

[Ophel]

Any work done to be accepted are filthy rags.

.1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
I feel that this verse shows that once we know we are accepted we are still capable of producing works that can be burnt.
But works done out of a right heart and mindset are more noble.

Actually, the scripture (Isaiah 64:6) that refers to filthy rags is a reference to our own personal acts of righteousness...NOT the righteous acts of those who walk with Jesus Christ, doing His will. Our works done with the right motives---to bring glory to God---are not viewed as filthy rags and will not be destroyed in that fire of Judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers. What remains in the crucible is what our rewards will be based on.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Actually, the scripture (Isaiah 64:6) that refers to filthy rags is a reference to our own personal acts of righteousness...NOT the righteous acts of those who walk with Jesus Christ, doing His will. Our works done with the right motives---to bring glory to God---are not viewed as filthy rags and will not be destroyed in that fire of Judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ for believers. What remains in the crucible is what our rewards will be based on.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

i think thats what was already meant by "works done to be accepted"...