Do Nothing Christianity

[B-A-C]

There is of course the "grace alone" crowd, and the "antimonianists" who this won't sit well with,
but that's Ok. It's obvious we don't all always agree with each other.

We may not be saved by works (in fact I can guarantee you that we aren't) but we aren't saved by grace "alone"
either. Now while works may not get us into heaven, they can definitely keep us out.

If we take the group of people in Matt 7:21-22; why don't they get to go to heaven?
They believe in Jesus, they call Him Lord, they even did miracles in His name?
Jesus answers that question by saying "only those who do the will of my father". Of course
there is much more to the will of the Father than simply believing in Jesus.
Jesus also says "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness".

So no matter what we believe, we better not keep practicing lawlessness.

In Luke 13:24-28; we see the same thing. "Didn't we eat and drink in your presence"?
"Didn't we come to hear your teaching?" Obviously these people believed in Jesus as well.
And yet Jesus says He doesn't know and tells them to depart from Him. "all you evil doers".

No matter what we believe we better not keep doing evil.

Some people will say, isn't this being saved by works. Absolutely not. We can't do enough good works
to save us. It requires grace also. But we can do enough bad works to keep us out of of heaven.

1 Cor 6:9-10; gives a list of things that if we continue practicing and doing, we will not go to heaven
no matter what we believe.
Gal 5:19-21; also gives a list of things we shouldn't do. It ends with "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God". It doesn't matter what we believe, it matters what we do.

There is a group of people who say, Jesus wants all the glory and all the credit, if we try to do anything on our
own we are trying to get saved on our own.
When John the Baptist baptized people, did he get saved on his own?
When the disciples went around healing and converting people did they get saved on their own?
When Noah built an ark, did he get saved on his own?
When Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac did he get saved on his own?
When Moses left Egypt to lead the Israelites to the promised land, did he get saved on his own?
...... but what if on the other hand they wouldn't have done those things? Would they still have been saved?
No. obedience is required.

In Matt 25:14-28; we see the parable of the talents. Two servants did what the master asked them to do. They were productive. The masters tells them "well done good and faithful servant".
The third servant did nothing, he was part of the masters household just like the first two. But he was
not productive. The master called him "a wicked a lazy servant", and had him tossed out of the masters house "to a place with the unbelievers".

In the story of the sheep and the goats, near the end of Matt 25.
What makes them a sheep or a goat? Was it what they believed? Or what they did?
One group, fed the hungry, clothed the poor, and visited the sick. The other group did none of those
things. It isn't what you believe. It's what you do.

Make no mistake, while believing in Jesus is required. We will not be judged only on what we believe.
We will judged on what we do. ( Rev 20:12-13; Matt 16:27; John 5:28-29; )

...and if we are simply a tree that bears no fruit, even if we are in the masters garden... we will be cut down
and thrown into the fire. ( Matt 3:10; Matt 7:19; Luke 3:9; etc.. )

There are over 7,950 verses in the New testament.
They are all there for a reason. To simply take Eph 2:8-9;or John 3:16; and add words like "alone"
to them is simply false doctrine. No doctrine should be built on a single verse.

 

[B-A-C]

Some will say, it's not our job to change people. Only God can do that.
True.. but it is our job to warn people.
Those we had a chance to witness to and did not will be held against us. ( Ezek 3:18-21; )
The great commission tells us to go forth and share the gospel.
We are supposed to be a light. We aren't supposed to hide it and not share it.

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C.

There is a fundamental problem in your understanding of the revelation of the scripture. Your understanding of the revelation
of the scripture will always be a paradox to me.

We may not be saved by works (in fact I can guarantee you that we aren't) but we aren't
saved by grace alone

You said, we are not saved by works and we are not saved by grace alone, this means no one will
ever be saved B-A-C, given your interpretation of the scripture.

Consider B-A-C, that at one end of the scale of salvation is grace, and the other end of the scale is works. Then there does not
exist a point on this scale, that is between these two end points, that can possibly enable salvation. Half grace plus half works
equals salvation, you must be kidding?

It is only logical B-A-C, if we are not saved by grace alone, then there must be an added component of works that are necessary
for salvation. If there is some additional component of works, that when added to grace will enable salvation. Then the scripture
should clearly state what this component of works should be, seems logical. Care to expand on which works and the degree of
these works, that one must commit to reach the mark of salvation?

You cannot leave people in the dark, groping to discover these particular works, that if omitted from the Christian walk, will result in
damnation. There must be an ordered list, you must be specific, about which specific laws and which particular works are necessary.

You also said the following in your post.

So no matter what we believe, we better not keep practicing lawlessness

People are born lawless B-A-C, no one can be
saved through adherence to the legal system, people are under the wrath of God with no escape. Without Christ, there was never any
chance of salvation, there is no particular law that if obeyed, can alter the outcome of God's wrath. Even in Christ, there still does not exist
any law that if obeyed will find favor with God and enable salvation. Think about what you are proposing B-A-C, be specific. I will try and
assist you with untangling your chaotic and ill defined legalistic theology.

Christ plus obedience to the law of adultery equals salvation?

Christ plus obedience to the law of murder, plus the law of adultery, equals salavation?

Christ plus obedience to the law of murder, plus the law of idolatry, plus the law of adultery, guarantees salvation?

On and on the legal requirements go and where it stops nobody knows, this is ridiculous B-A-C.

What you believe will ultimately determine what you do in life B-A-C. It has always been a simple fact of life, that what one believes
to be true is what one will do.

If you believe in plain hard work then, more than likely you will be a hard worker though out your life.

If you believe in the accumulation of wealth, then oddly enough your life will center on gaining wealth.

If you really believe, that what you are comes from what you eat, no surprise, you will be selective about what you eat.

Belief and only belief in itself, is the primary drive for everything a person does in life.

What you believe shapes your entire life, whether you are a Christian or an unbeliever, it is the belief system which is the
fundamental cause of every action you commit in life. You must first plot the course before you set sail. You must first look
at whether you possess all the materials to complete a construction.

You said.

It isn't what you believe. It's what you do

The opposite is true B-A-C, what you believe is the driving force behind everything you will ever do. You must have a reason for
doing anything you do, you cannot act in anyway without a cause for that action in the first place. Basic belief in the goal drives
the successful people in life.

The following statement of your was clearly in error.

When Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac did he get saved on his own?

Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed God, Paul amplifies this in Romans. Abraham's justification through
the belief in God, was one of Paul's primary arguments, that Paul used when talking to the Jews.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is of course the "grace alone" crowd, and the "antimonianists" who this won't sit well with,
but that's Ok. It's obvious we don't all always agree with each other.

We may not be saved by works (in fact I can guarantee you that we aren't) but we aren't saved by grace "alone"
either. Now while works may not get us into heaven, they can definitely keep us out.

If we take the group of people in Matt 7:21-22; why don't they get to go to heaven?
They believe in Jesus, they call Him Lord, they even did miracles in His name?
Jesus answers that question by saying "only those who do the will of my father". Of course
there is much more to the will of the Father than simply believing in Jesus.
Jesus also says "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness".

So no matter what we believe, we better not keep practicing lawlessness.

In Luke 13:24-28; we see the same thing. "Didn't we eat and drink in your presence"?
"Didn't we come to hear your teaching?" Obviously these people believed in Jesus as well.
And yet Jesus says He doesn't know and tells them to depart from Him. "all you evil doers".

No matter what we believe we better not keep doing evil.

Some people will say, isn't this being saved by works. Absolutely not. We can't do enough good works
to save us. It requires grace also. But we can do enough bad works to keep us out of of heaven.

1 Cor 6:9-10; gives a list of things that if we continue practicing and doing, we will not go to heaven
no matter what we believe.
Gal 5:19-21; also gives a list of things we shouldn't do. It ends with "those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God". It doesn't matter what we believe, it matters what we do.

There is a group of people who say, Jesus wants all the glory and all the credit, if we try to do anything on our
own we are trying to get saved on our own.
When John the Baptist baptized people, did he get saved on his own?
When the disciples went around healing and converting people did they get saved on their own?
When Noah built an ark, did he get saved on his own?
When Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac did he get saved on his own?
When Moses left Egypt to lead the Israelites to the promised land, did he get saved on his own?
...... but what if on the other hand they wouldn't have done those things? Would they still have been saved?
No. obedience is required.

In Matt 25:14-28; we see the parable of the talents. Two servants did what the master asked them to do. They were productive. The masters tells them "well done good and faithful servant".
The third servant did nothing, he was part of the masters household just like the first two. But he was
not productive. The master called him "a wicked a lazy servant", and had him tossed out of the masters house "to a place with the unbelievers".

In the story of the sheep and the goats, near the end of Matt 25.
What makes them a sheep or a goat? Was it what they believed? Or what they did?
One group, fed the hungry, clothed the poor, and visited the sick. The other group did none of those
things. It isn't what you believe. It's what you do.

Make no mistake, while believing in Jesus is required. We will not be judged only on what we believe.
We will judged on what we do. ( Rev 20:12-13; Matt 16:27; John 5:28-29; )

...and if we are simply a tree that bears no fruit, even if we are in the masters garden... we will be cut down
and thrown into the fire. ( Matt 3:10; Matt 7:19; Luke 3:9; etc.. )

There are over 7,950 verses in the New testament.
They are all there for a reason. To simply take Eph 2:8-9;or John 3:16; and add words like "alone"
to them is simply false doctrine. No doctrine should be built on a single verse.

Hello B-A-C,
You said, ((( If we take the group of people in Matt 7:21-22; why don't they get to go to heaven?
They believe in Jesus, they call Him Lord, they even did miracles in His name?
Jesus answers that question by saying "only those who do the will of my father". Of course
there is much more to the will of the Father than simply believing in Jesus.
Jesus also says "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness".
So no matter what we believe, we better not keep practicing lawlessness.
In Luke 13:24-28; we see the same thing. "Didn't we eat and drink in your presence"?
"Didn't we come to hear your teaching?" Obviously these people believed in Jesus as well.
And yet Jesus says He doesn't know and tells them to depart from Him. "all you evil doers".))))

The people being referred to in both passages ONLY HEAR THOSE WORDS of depart from me I don't know you....BECAUSE they DO NOT have the BLOOD of JESUS covering them. Another words they never made Jesus Lord and Savior of their lives. They went to church and did the things church people do but FORGOT TO PURCHASE THEIR FREE TICKET INTO HEAVEN....The Blood of Christ.

When you come across the word works in the written word of God, you have got to grasp that it does NOT always mean good works like in deeds and such.....Some times and this is a lot of some times it is talking about DOING WHAT THE WORD OF GOD REQUIRES YOU TO DO. WALK IN LOVE IS A COMMAND not something you can choose who and when. Walking in Forgiveness is also a command and again it is not up to you to pick who and for what....Both love and forgiveness must be a part of FAITH, other wise your faith will NOT bring you ther desired results.

How about Mark 11:25 KJV
And when you stand praying, FORGIVE if ye have AUGHT against any, that your Father also which is in Heaven MAY forgive you your trespasses. Unforgiveness stops the flow of love and FAITH. Also you can not stand there praying until you decide it is ok to forgive or until you feel the other has paid enough respect back to you....NO it is always right NOW.....These are also WORKS.....Faith with out works is dead...........every one wants to scream got to do good deeds...Ok that is a good thing and does belong to faith BUT is not the big picture............All the good deeds done in the name of faith without Love and forgiveness wont do you a hill of beans of good.

Just wanted to add this...........
Have a wonderful day my friend
Blessings
jim

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C.

There is a fundamental problem in your understanding of the revelation of the scripture. Your understanding of the revelation
of the scripture will always be a paradox to me.
You said, we are not saved by works and we are not saved by grace alone, this means no one will
ever be saved B-A-C, given your interpretation of the scripture.

Consider B-A-C, that at one end of the scale of salvation is grace, and the other end of the scale is works. Then there does not
exist a point on this scale, that is between these two end points, that can possibly enable salvation. Half grace plus half works
equals salvation, you must be kidding?

It is only logical B-A-C, if we are not saved by grace alone, then there must be an added component of works that are necessary
for salvation. If there is some additional component of works, that when added to grace will enable salvation. Then the scripture
should clearly state what this component of works should be, seems logical. Care to expand on which works and the degree of
these works, that one must commit to reach the mark of salvation?

You cannot leave people in the dark, groping to discover these particular works, that if omitted from the Christian walk, will result in
damnation. There must be an ordered list, you must be specific, about which specific laws and which particular works are necessary.

You also said the following in your post.
People are born lawless B-A-C, no one can be
saved through adherence to the legal system, people are under the wrath of God with no escape. Without Christ, there was never any
chance of salvation, there is no particular law that if obeyed, can alter the outcome of God's wrath. Even in Christ, there still does not exist
any law that if obeyed will find favor with God and enable salvation. Think about what you are proposing B-A-C, be specific. I will try and
assist you with untangling your chaotic and ill defined legalistic theology.

Christ plus obedience to the law of adultery equals salvation?

Christ plus obedience to the law of murder, plus the law of adultery, equals salavation?

Christ plus obedience to the law of murder, plus the law of idolatry, plus the law of adultery, guarantees salvation?

On and on the legal requirements go and where it stops nobody knows, this is ridiculous B-A-C.

What you believe will ultimately determine what you do in life B-A-C. It has always been a simple fact of life, that what one believes
to be true is what one will do.

If you believe in plain hard work then, more than likely you will be a hard worker though out your life.

If you believe in the accumulation of wealth, then oddly enough your life will center on gaining wealth.

If you really believe, that what you are comes from what you eat, no surprise, you will be selective about what you eat.

Belief and only belief in itself, is the primary drive for everything a person does in life.

What you believe shapes your entire life, whether you are a Christian or an unbeliever, it is the belief system which is the
fundamental cause of every action you commit in life. You must first plot the course before you set sail. You must first look
at whether you possess all the materials to complete a construction.

You said.

The opposite is true B-A-C, what you believe is the driving force behind everything you will ever do. You must have a reason for
doing anything you do, you cannot act in anyway without a cause for that action in the first place. Basic belief in the goal drives
the successful people in life.

The following statement of your was clearly in error.

Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed God, Paul amplifies this in Romans. Abraham's justification through
the belief in God, was one of Paul's primary arguments, that Paul used when talking to the Jews.

Jas 2:20; But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22; Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Faith is a work.
There are many people who believe in Jesus. Have faith in Jesus, but it doesn't drive what they do.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C,
You said, ((( If we take the group of people in Matt 7:21-22; why don't they get to go to heaven?
They believe in Jesus, they call Him Lord, they even did miracles in His name?
Jesus answers that question by saying "only those who do the will of my father". Of course
there is much more to the will of the Father than simply believing in Jesus.
Jesus also says "I never knew you, depart from me, you who practice lawlessness".
So no matter what we believe, we better not keep practicing lawlessness.
In Luke 13:24-28; we see the same thing. "Didn't we eat and drink in your presence"?
"Didn't we come to hear your teaching?" Obviously these people believed in Jesus as well.
And yet Jesus says He doesn't know and tells them to depart from Him. "all you evil doers".))))

The people being referred to in both passages ONLY HEAR THOSE WORDS of depart from me I don't know you....BECAUSE they DO NOT have the BLOOD of JESUS covering them. Another words they never made Jesus Lord and Savior of their lives. They went to church and did the things church people do but FORGOT TO PURCHASE THEIR FREE TICKET INTO HEAVEN....The Blood of Christ.

When you come across the word works in the written word of God, you have got to grasp that it does NOT always mean good works like in deeds and such.....Some times and this is a lot of some times it is talking about DOING WHAT THE WORD OF GOD REQUIRES YOU TO DO. WALK IN LOVE IS A COMMAND not something you can choose who and when. Walking in Forgiveness is also a command and again it is not up to you to pick who and for what....Both love and forgiveness must be a part of FAITH, other wise your faith will NOT bring you ther desired results.

How about Mark 11:25 KJV
And when you stand praying, FORGIVE if ye have AUGHT against any, that your Father also which is in Heaven MAY forgive you your trespasses. Unforgiveness stops the flow of love and FAITH. Also you can not stand there praying until you decide it is ok to forgive or until you feel the other has paid enough respect back to you....NO it is always right NOW.....These are also WORKS.....Faith with out works is dead...........every one wants to scream got to do good deeds...Ok that is a good thing and does belong to faith BUT is not the big picture............All the good deeds done in the name of faith without Love and forgiveness wont do you a hill of beans of good.

Just wanted to add this...........
Have a wonderful day my friend
Blessings
jim

Walking in love is exactly what we choose or refuse to do.
Being covered/sanctified by the blood is no guarantee of salvation.

People can walk away from that as well. Salvation isn't a one time thing, but rather an on-going process.

Heb 10:29; How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30; For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."

Just because you were once sanctified by the blood of the covenant, doesn't mean you still are.

Actions are what determine if you have eternal life, not belief alone.

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 19:18; Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

May I ask about a Scripture?
Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Travis]

Greetings,

May I ask about a Scripture?
Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Bless you ....><>

I have something to ask about what you asked Br. Bear:

What do you think the works they did at first were? Their "first works," which Christ mentions.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I have something to ask about what you asked Br. Bear:

What do you think the works they did at first were? Their "first works," which Christ mentions.

Blessings,

Travis

What you asked is why I asked what I asked, Travis.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Travis]

Greetings,



What you asked is why I asked what I asked, Travis.

Bless you ....><>

Well I'm glad someone asked it! Maybe someone will even answer it.

= D

 

[Curtis]

Well I'm glad someone asked it! Maybe someone will even answer it.

= D

I'll take stab at answering this question. What exactly is the "work" that we are suppose to do? Jesus tells us .....

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing the Word of God is doing the "work" of God!! If you stop believing you have stooped working.

 

[Purrl Sugar]

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Well said.

The comment, or judgment, afforded in the OP; "The grace alone crowd...." Sounds so disparaging. I think perhaps the whole reason that entire commentary makes little sense is because the author is new to the scriptures and isn't aware of the saving grace of God and what that means.
I suggest patience with their lack of scriptural knowledge thus far. Perhaps they'll find their way in the Bible so as not to make accusatory remarks about others when they themselves appear to no little.

 

[RJ]

We may not be saved by works (in fact I can guarantee you that we aren't) but we aren't saved by grace "alone"
either. Now while works may not get us into heaven, they can definitely keep us out.

Yes, but not YOUR works my friend! It is whether you have the fruits / works of Christ through you that is the difference!
Whether you call it "Grace alone" crowd or "Antimonism".....It is still fact!.....not YOUR works!

 

[Curtis]

Looking to Jesus we can see exactly how we are to work. Jesus said, "I can of my own self do nothing...." Wait, If the Son of God he could do nothing on his own, where does that leave us? Jesus told his followers that ,"it was his father dwelling in me he who doth the works..." Jesus always pleased, and had "faith" in his Father for everything. We know this because the scripture says, "without faith it is impossible to please God..." Our only work is to have faith in the Word of God, and if we have that God himself will work through that person.
Scripture says, "faith works by love". God alone by himself is love, we are not love, but God's love is shed into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. If faith works by love, then only God himself can do the "works of faith".
As Jesus told his "disciples, "without me you can do nothing. If God is not working through a person it is because they have no faith. Some people force these works of faith on their own thinking they are the ones supposing to do them. "Lord did WE not lay hands on the sick, did WE not cast out devils, did WE not do many wonderful works". Their only problem was they were doing them and not God!!!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

So the repent part?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings, again,
kindness...
let us remember that merely because we might presume that another has spoken /written in a way that is unpleasant is no exception or excuse to respond in like manner.
You will find that responding is possible without personal insult, unless we live by 'eye for an eye', which is not the will or works of our Father.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Eric D Moore]

Good works are works done by others for your sustainable soul. It is not a large matter of how much you give or how little you do but of how others do for you what you do and don't do for yourself but of what they will never do for themselves or each other. Do not walk and look to preach but rather preach and allow yourself to be allowed to walk. Do not stand on the line and attempt to move it and do not stand beside it and attempt to move. Salvation is received by those that do the work of the Lord and allow themselves to give up their lives in preparation of their soul on its journey on the last day. It is approaching fast and not many will receive what they wish. I say now that I reject all those here and everywhere that say different from me. All you here that look for bridges will fall from the heights of them into the hands of your enemy. There is no way but me and I am in the way. So saith the Lord

 

[DHC]

Jas 2:20; But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22; Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Faith is a work.
There are many people who believe in Jesus. Have faith in Jesus, but it doesn't drive what they do.

Hello B-A-C.

You may need to sit down for a while and seriously consider how you read the scripture.

Your quotation from James must be read within the surrounding context of the letter.

James assures the reader that our righteousness is awarded to us, and not because we have works.
We are granted the righteousness of Christ because we believe in the Lord, here read what James says.

James 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as
righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.

If you had quoted the next line from the text and not ommitted it, then what James was actually saying
would have been much clearer. Why did you omit the next line in that quotation from James?

 

[RJ]

Faith is a work.

No, clearly faith is a gift from God and not a work of man!
Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Brother, how can faith be a work when it is given to you by God?

 

[Ophel]

Our salvation is a work of God by His GRACE, alone. Our works are the natural result of that grace we have received. So the scriptures are correct that if our works do not attest to the transformation in us by Holy Spirit indwelling, then our so-called faith is a dead faith. Only a living faith through salvation produces works that are empowered by God Himself and will reach to do what He has willed them to do, producing great results.