Is Israel still a favored nation?

[B-A-C]

Is Israel still God's favored nation?

Deut 7:6; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Deut 7:7; "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,

Deut 14:2; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

In the New Testament we see most of the Jews rejected Jesus.

1 Pet 2:6; For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
1 Pet 2:7; This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
1 Pet 2:8; and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
1 Pet 2:9; But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1 Pet 2:10; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Peter is quoting Deut 7 in verse 9 above above. He is quoting Isa 28:16; in verse 6 above.

Jesus is called the King of the Jews over a dozen times in the New Testament.
It said "The King of the Jews" on a plate above his head on the cross (in 3 languages).
When Pilate asked Jesus if he was the King of the Jews, Jesus acknowledged it.
(Matt 2:2; Matt 27:11; Matt 27:29; Matt 27:37; Mark 15:2; Mark 15;9; Mark 15:12; Mark 15:18; Mark 15:26;
Luke 23:3; Luke 23:37; Luke 23:38; John 18:39; John 19:14; John 19:19; John 1:49; John 12:13; etc.. )
There are other similar verses where he is called a ruler of Israel ( Matt 2:6; etc..)

Now of course Jesus isn't only for the Jews, or only the King of the Jews. But it's who he claimed to be
while he was on earth. It seems his primary mission while he was on the earth for for the Jews.
( Matt 10:6; Matt 15:24; ) although he did interact with Gentiles on about ten different occasions.

God gave Israel a special blessing. Many Christians believe it is still in effect today, others do not.
It seems there is antisemitism even among some Christians today.

Gen 12:2; And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
Gen 12:3; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

The word "Israel" in mentioned over 2300 times in the Bible. The word "Jews" over 220 times.
However Israel is only mentioned about 70 times in the New Testament.

The Bible des say that Gentiles (anyone who is not a Jew) can spiritually become a Jew (circumcised in heart).
I'm not really trying to argue for or against dispensationalism here. Because to me dispensationalism doesn't
matter. My salvation doesn't depend on it.

All I'm really asking is, does Israel still hold a special place in God's plan.

Rom 9:3; For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,
Rom 9:4; who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
Rom 9:5; whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 9:6; But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
Rom 9:7; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
Rom 9:8; That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

This seems to say, not only those of Jewish descent can be children of God, but anyone who accepts the promise(s)
of God can be His children.

Rom 9:24; even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
Rom 9:25; As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'"
Rom 9:26; "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."
Rom 9:27; Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;
Rom 9:28; FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY."
Rom 9:29; And just as Isaiah foretold, "UNLESS THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY, WE WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH."
Rom 9:30; What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
Rom 9:31; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

Rom 10:19; But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."
Rom 10:20; And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."
Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

It seems over and over again in the Old Testament Israel turned away from God. At least 20 times in the Old Testament Israel turned away from God, then they returned to God, then they turned away again over and over. Yet God always brought them back. This seems to have happened when they rejected Jesus also. But God is using this to bring the rest of the world to Him.

Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
Rom 11:8 just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
Rom 11:9 And David says, "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
Rom 11:10 "LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."
Rom 11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

It seems that even though they rejected him then, they can come back if they want to.

Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
Rom 11:27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Rom 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Many take this to mean that once the Gospel has been preached to the (world/nations/Gentiles) God will open their hearts again, that they may accept Jesus as the Christ.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
Heb 8:9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

 

[Travis]

All I'm really asking is, does Israel still hold a special place in God's plan.

Yes I think so. The real nation of Israel has continued to exist even after 70 A.D. and the destruction of Jerusalem. The real nation of Israel has just been scattered across the world. They are still scattered across the world. The modern nation that calls itself Israel does not have any relevance to the biblical nation of Israel, who will continue to exist regardless of what happens to the nation/state that is called Israel today. God knows who the descendents, physically, of Abraham are today and what plans he has for them if any (I tend to think he does have plans for them). I don't think any of these plans include anything significant that is related to what came to be in 1948 in the middle-east.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[B-A-C]

You may be right, but still it's amazing. Israel wasn't even a nation for about a 1,000 years, and yet all Jews know they are Jews.
I'm not talking about people born in Israel, I'm talking about ethnic Jews. Here in the US many of us are of European descent,
some are of African descent, and others of Latino descent, but most of us don't know our heritage, are we German, Norwegian, Irish,
English, mixed with all the above or something else? Its seems the same with African American, are they Nigerian? Sudanese? Ethiopian?
Tanzanian? Most don't seem to really know. But all Jews know if they are Jews or not.

 

[Travis]

You may be right, but still it's amazing. Israel wasn't even a nation for about a 1,000 years, and yet all Jews know they are Jews.
I'm not talking about people born in Israel, I'm talking about ethnic Jews. Here in the US many of us are of European descent,
some are of African descent, and others of Latino descent, but most of us don't know our heritage, are we German, Norwegian, Irish,
English, mixed with all the above or something else? Its seems the same with African American, are they Nigerian? Sudanese? Ethiopian?
Tanzanian? Most don't seem to really know. But all Jews know if they are Jews or not.

Idk, just my thoughts... but I'd bet there are more Jews out there that barely even know, if at all, than there are real Jews out there that do know it. I think many who think they are actual descendents of Abaraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not really so. But, like I said, just my thoughts.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[tulsa 2011]

"1 Pet 2:9; But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1 Pet 2:10; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Peter is quoting Deut 7 in verse 9 above above."

Deuteronomy 7: 6 says " For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth."

The New Testament does not deny that Israel was and is the people of God - chosen to be a special people to God.

Quoting I Peter 2: 9 in a post dealing with the issue of Israel now being a favored nation, where nation means that nation existing now in the Middle East, is saying that the chosen race, holy nation, a people for God's own possession, refers to Old Covenant Israel.

This is stating a doctrine that is not commonly found in dispensationalist writings, as far as I know. If anyhone can quote a dispensationalist, such as C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer, Charles C. Ryrie, J. Dwight Pentecost and others such as these, saying that I Peter 2: 9 refers to Old Covenant Israel that would be interesting.

The Talmudic rabbis interpret Isaiah 53 to mean that the "he" in that chapter is not Jesus Christ, but the people of Old Covenant Israel - which replaces Christ with Israel of the flesh. In placing so much emphasis upon the continuation of Old Covenant Israel, dispensationalism comes close to doing the same thing, replacing Christ with Old Covenant Israel, no matter if they say they are not doing that.

In Chapters one and two, Peter is talking about Christians. When Peter quotes Deuteronomy 7: 6 he is saying that in Christ - being reborn in Christ - Christians are now that chosen and holy people, special to God. Dispensationalism does not recognize II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16, Jeremiah 18: 1-6 and added to these Hosea 2: 23 - that Old Covenant Israel was changed by God, and non-Israelites were brought in, but Christians in Christ are still part of God's Israel, but not Old Covenant Israel. This refusal to recognize that God has one people, not two, is a fundamental reason why dispensationalism is another Gospel and its followers have another Jesus. That God has one people now is shown clearly in John 10: 16, and in Romans 12:4-5 - and Hebrews 10: 9 says "He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."

 

[Dovegiven]

Yes, God does have a very big plan for Israel, in the lands of ancient Israel, and populated by members of all 12 tribes. But it appears in scripture they won't be reunited as a nation of children of God in that place until after the tribulation. Of those assembling there now, perhaps millions will die in that terrible time. Those left standing when Jesus returns will be the remnant God promised to save, and make of them the greatest nation earth has ever known. Meanwhile, God knows who they are and will be alive at his coming. Today there are many Christians claiming to be among them, literally being Jews by faith, though not having genetic or national connections to any tribe of Israel. There was a lady in our church that insisted she was of the tribe of Naphtali, but nobody in her family had any record of being connected. She claimed it was through the Jew Jesus, who assigned her to that tribe "in the spirit". She left us. All over the world are people who are descendants of Gentile converts to Judaism that claim membership in the various tribes, but are not.

I agree Deu. 7 has the declaration of Israel being chosen, which no other nation has ever had proclaimed over them. However, while Israel was still strong but divided into two kingdoms, having many good kings, some bad ones, there came the prophets warning of their destruction for their rebellion. He included some Gentile kingdoms in the prophecy, as they too were rebellious. One interesting prophet was Hosea, who used his own marital problems to convey God's message to them. He delivered the "divorce" decree that retained future promises.
Hosea 1:8-11 (KJV)
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

So Israel was blessed, yes, but God couldn't allow the nation to escape promised judgment. Jesus will restore a remnant of them. All 12 tribes were conquered and dispersed as their judgment. Jezreel was Hosea's first born, who would

Centuries later Peter wrote to Jewish and Gentile Christians (in 1 & 2 Peter) who were of the original church, yet a few years short of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. Together they, the Church, had promise of promise of 1 Peter 2:9-10 (KJV) 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

That "chosen generation", "nation", is the Church, made up of the two groups Hosea said were to be judged, with God saying to the ancients he would not be their god for very righteous reasons. The living Household of God is currently of all people that are "in Christ". When Jesus returns, all the remainder of Israel will believe and be saved, and enjoy a magnificent glory. God owes that to Abraham by promise, confirmed by the prophets. Christians are a holy priesthood serving God with our High Priest Jesus whose office is of the order of Melchizedek, not of the earthly mortal priesthood of Aaron and his sons.

Romans 9 offers much more detail concerning Israel's situation these days. Blessings to you Bible students.

Is Israel still God's favored nation?

Deut 7:6; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
Deut 7:7; "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,

Deut 14:2; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

In the New Testament we see most of the Jews rejected Jesus.

1 Pet 2:6; For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
1 Pet 2:7; This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
1 Pet 2:8; and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
1 Pet 2:9; But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
1 Pet 2:10; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Peter is quoting Deut 7 in verse 9 above above. He is quoting Isa 28:16; in verse 6 above.

 

[Stickz]

Since scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons, and Israel was a man long before it was ever a country, I have always figured that it referred more to people of faith/the promise/God than it did to something that might make God appear a little racist(?).

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The people that live in the country of Israel right now are no different than anyone else.

 

[B-A-C]

Since scripture tells us that God is no respecter of persons, and Israel was a man long before it was ever a country, I have always figured that it referred more to people of faith/the promise/God than it did to something that might make God appear a little racist(?).
.

LOL, well there are many orthodox Jews who would say that God IS indeed very racist, from the standpoint Jews were not supposed to intermingle or intermarry with non-Jews.
Even in Jesus' time on Earth, Jews did not talk to Samaritans or Gentiles. There are dozens of verses about this.

Exod 34:11; "Be sure to observe what I am commanding you this day: behold, I am going to drive out the Amorite before you, and the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite.
Exod 34:12; "Watch yourself that you make no covenant with the inhabitants of the land into which you are going, or it will become a snare in your midst.
Exod 34:13; "But rather, you are to tear down their altars and smash their sacred pillars and cut down their Asherim
Exod 34:14; --for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God--
Exod 34:15 otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice,
Exod 34:16; and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods.

Deut 7:1; "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
Deut 7:2; and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
Deut 7:3; "Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.
Deut 7:4; "For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.
Deut 7:5; "But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.
Deut 7:6; "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

2 Cor 6:14; Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Gen 28:1; So Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and charged him, and said to him, "You shall not take a wife from the daughters of Canaan.

Admittedly this had more to do with religious beliefs than race.

 

[Stickz]

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
No mention of Gentiles.
Look at Revelation 21. What is that a description of? 12 gates? 12 tribes of Israel? See a section for Gentiles? No. Why?

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. The part the Gentiles seem to play in the book of Revelation.

 

[Dovegiven]

Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
No mention of Gentiles.
Look at Revelation 21. What is that a description of? 12 gates? 12 tribes of Israel? See a section for Gentiles? No. Why?

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. The part the Gentiles seem to play in the book of Revelation.

I suggest reading a fascinating thriller that matches up with Rev. 11, found in and around Daniel 11-12. Rev. 11 is about the fulfillment of Daniel 11-12
Gentile believers on Christ have many promises similar to that of future redeemed Israel. But until Jesus returns any Gentile wanting to be grafted into the Vine Jesus had better do so before he returns. All surviving Jews will believe and be saved.

NOW is the time for both Jews, some dying between now and then, some surviving, and Gentiles who have no promise of survivors being redeemed. It's highly advisable to be sure we are among the saints returning with Jesus! No Jew today knows whether he/she will be alive for the tribulation, becoming a believer on Jesus before dying then, or among the fortunate group of them surviving to welcome their Messiah Jesus. From now until Jesus returns, the unholy trinity of Satan, the Antichrist, and the false prophet will focus on killing as many of both people groups lest they be saved. The potential for billions of people, Jews and Gentiles alike to die in their unbelief between now and then is very high.

Even after such a history of Israel's rebellion (sin by ignoring God's law), 12 gates of Heaven will remain named after the tribes of Israel. There are also 12 "floors" of the holy city, each of those named after the 12 apostles. That might leave Paul out, who at best was apostle #13.

The way I look at it is knowing beforehand I will be a citizen there by way of the blood of Jesus, looking at those gates and floor names with glee, which right now is far better than what I am seeing this world has to offer. There will be a bunch of Gentiles as happy as the Jews that believed.

Oh Jews and Gentiles alive today, believe upon Jesus the Christ of God, having faith in his shed blood for the forgiveness of whatever separates men from holy God.

Thank you B-A-C for bringing this up. I have once again learned much again and afresh studying this out.

 

[Aenon]

Is Israel still God's favored nation?

Not in the sense you're thinking. God is not "pro" any nation. The nation of Israel is summed up in the person of Christ. Anyone who puts their faith in Him becomes Israel. Israel is not a place, it is a means of describing those who put their faith in the son of God.

 

[Chad]

Not in the sense you're thinking. God is not "pro" any nation. The nation of Israel is summed up in the person of Christ. Anyone who puts their faith in Him becomes Israel. Israel is not a place, it is a means of describing those who put their faith in the son of God.

Can you show me some Scripture that explains this? I've never heard anyone describe Israel that way.

However, Israel is a favored nation according to Scripture.

Genesis 12:2-3
“I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.a]">[a]
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”

Deuteronomy 7:7-9
The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.

 

[Dovegiven]

I think Aenon was referring to one of the "replacement" theories, nothing about which is at all remotely linked to the Bible. The "British-Anglo Israel" theory, the "American Israel" theory, the more general "Church Israel" theory, came out about the same period in the late 1800's as false cults such as Jehovah's Witness which bypasses the Bible "Church" completely, seizing claim to "God's Israel". All such movements are works of the Devil against the Church, diverting many Christians from the New Testament Church of Jesus Christ.

I consider any belief that's foreign to the scriptures is a sign of a false religion. In this case, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest there is another entity that God regards as "Israel" other than that of the tribes of the sons of the patriarch Jacob, renamed Israel by God, of the loins of Abraham and his son Isaac. It is that same Israel nation of Jesus our Lord. The nation Israel will be Israel until this corrupted creation burns and we have a new earth.

 

[Aenon]

Can you show me some Scripture that explains this? I've never heard anyone describe Israel that way.

However, Israel is a favored nation according to Scripture.

Paul talks about the Gentiles being grafted in. What he means is the gentiles who follow the teachings of Christ, through the "faithful" Jews, are also spiritually classified as Jewish. The fathers of the church CONSTANTLY talk about how the Christians (the true Jews) have become the descendants of Abraham. This is clearly seen in the book of Hebrews. Another point is that Christ fulfilled Israel (led out of Egypt, passed through the waters of baptism, led to the wilderness, manna (eucharist), etc)

 

[Dovegiven]

Paul talks about the Gentiles being grafted in. What he means is the gentiles who follow the teachings of Christ, through the "faithful" Jews, are also spiritually classified as Jewish. The fathers of the church CONSTANTLY talk about how the Christians (the true Jews) have become the descendants of Abraham. This is clearly seen in the book of Hebrews. Another point is that Christ fulfilled Israel (led out of Egypt, passed through the waters of baptism, led to the wilderness, manna (eucharist), etc)

 

[Aenon]

Do read the writings of St. John Chrysostom (Adversus Judaeos)
and St. Justin Martyr (Dialogue with Trypho). What I said was early Christian standard. If this is foreign to you, it is only because you are out of touch with the early Church.

 

[Dovegiven]

Brother Chrysostom, a disciple of Christ, of our God who does not respect persons (no "Pope" in his will), is often misquoted by taking his anti-Judaizer remarks out of context to prove the modern replacement theories. It's very typical of a world of Christians bearing very unbiblical opinions. He was definitely not anti-Semitic, held to the biblical position of ancient Israel to inherit the promises which God has not cancelled.

Now, as for Brother Justin's comment "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ, as shall be demonstrated while we proceed." (cite from http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia), my challenge to you is to find the words "spiritual" and "Israel" in any Bible verse in context with supportive scripture adjacent to that verse, which contradicts the documented promises of God, who cannot lie.

My point is what you are promoting is actually a New Age belief spawned from Satan to attack the Church as well as betray Israel, which physical nation still has God's great promise of a remnant of all the tribes receiving all the promises made to Abraham, using extra-biblical phrases from godly disciples of the early Church. In fact Israel received earnest of that Promise by populating the Church without a single Gentile for the first 7 years of the Church. There are no "Christian tribes" set to inherit those blessings of theirs.

The basis of New Age philosophy is that because Israel sinned, God has since decided they don't deserve favor, so the favor transferred to Britain, and then to America. A problem with that, besides not being supported in scriptures, is that both Britain and America have turned to idolatry too. So who gets the mantle next? China"

Also, be cautious promoting RCC doctrines which have added much to the scriptures in defiance of God's word not to.

 

[Aenon]

Brother Chrysostom, a disciple of Christ, of our God who does not respect persons (no "Pope" in his will), is often misquoted by taking his anti-Judaizer remarks out of context to prove the modern replacement theories. It's very typical of a world of Christians bearing very unbiblical opinions. He was definitely not anti-Semitic, held to the biblical position of ancient Israel to inherit the promises which God has not cancelled.

Now, as for Brother Justin's comment "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ, as shall be demonstrated while we proceed." (cite from http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/01282.htm The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia), my challenge to you is to find the words "spiritual" and "Israel" in any Bible verse in context with supportive scripture adjacent to that verse, which contradicts the documented promises of God, who cannot lie.

My point is what you are promoting is actually a New Age belief spawned from Satan to attack the Church as well as betray Israel, which physical nation still has God's great promise of a remnant of all the tribes receiving all the promises made to Abraham, using extra-biblical phrases from godly disciples of the early Church. In fact Israel received earnest of that Promise by populating the Church without a single Gentile for the first 7 years of the Church. There are no "Christian tribes" set to inherit those blessings of theirs.

The basis of New Age philosophy is that because Israel sinned, God has since decided they don't deserve favor, so the favor transferred to Britain, and then to America. A problem with that, besides not being supported in scriptures, is that both Britain and America have turned to idolatry too. So who gets the mantle next? China"

Also, be cautious promoting RCC doctrines which have added much to the scriptures in defiance of God's word not to.

I have to comment because youre wrong about multiple things:

1) Replacement theology is not new, it is also more accurately called "fulfillment theology."

2) I am not taking anything out of context.

3) I never said Chrysostom was antisemetic, but he certainly was anti-judiazer, and you should be too.

4) Israel is NOT a plot of land in the middle-east. A "Jew" is NOT someone who lives in Israel, nor is it someone who is a physical descendent of Abraham. All of these things are seen WAY too carnally, and is not at all how God intended for them to be interpreted. God sees people as chosen BASED ON FAITH IN HIM. If someone claims to be a Jew, yet rejects Christ, they are NOT a Jew in God's eyes. If you read St. Justin, you will see that he juxtaposes the NEW/updated covenant (Christ) with the OLD covenant (Mt Sinai).

 

[tulsa 2011]

In the Old Covenant a person entered into that Covenant by entirely physical means: one was born to Jewish parents or bought as a servant into a Jewish household (Genesis 17:10-13). Every male was circumcised, whether he showed any devotion to God or not. But in the Old Testament, there was recognition that physical circumcision was not enough. Moses told the Israelites in Deuteronomy 10:16 to circumcise their hearts, and promised that God would do the circumcising (Deuteronomy 30:6). Jeremiah also emphasized the need for a circumcision of the heart (Jeremiah 4:4).

Physical circumcision was required of all males to be in the Old Covenant. It was necessary but not always spiritually sufficient to please God. Jeremiah 4: 4 says to the Israelites to take away the foreskins from their hearts, so that God will not come against them with fury for their evil doings.

The Old Covenant involved physical things, circumcision, a physical bloodline, animal sacrifice, feast days, new moons, and a literal physical temple building. All these were done away with in the New Covenant.

In contrast, to enter the New Covenant a person must be born again (John 3: 3, 6-7). I Peter 2: 5, 9 says to the Christians "Ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house" and "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood..."

Christ came to bring spiritual life. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10: 10 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8: 6 Carnally minded in Romans 8: 6 is from phronema tes sarkos, literally mind of the flesh, or flesh mind. To be in the condition of the flesh, rather than of the Spirit, is death.

"Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" II Corinthians 13: 5

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory
of this mystery among the gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

Being born again means to be changed into a spiritual state from the state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, which cannot discern the things of the Spirit, which is man in a state which is entirely physical, and is death, and as Paul says if Christ is not in you, you are reprobate, not spiritual. Romans 12: 2 says to be transformed, and II Corinthians 5: 17 says when one is in Christ - and transformed into a spiritual state - he is a new creature.

The New Covenant is a covenant of spiritual life, and Haggai 2: 9 says "The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts."

"He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 10: 9

"...and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ..." Romans 12: 5 "There is one body, and one Spirit..." Ephesians 4: 4

There cannot be two peoples of God, Old Covenant Israel and the Capital C Church.

The bloodline which defined Old Covenant Israel (Genesis 17: 6-9), according to Galatians 3: 3,16, 26-29, is now defined as a line from Abraham to Christ as the one seed from Abraham, and everyone in Christ is of that seed. The certain implication here is that the seed from Abraham was redefined as a spiritual seed.

To say that somehow Old Covenant Israel is still the chosen people of God while at the same time agreeing with Hebrews 10: 9 that Christ took away the Old Covenant to establish the New Covenant would be double minded. So dispensationalism instead says Old Covenant Israel still exists as the chosen people longside the Church. Since there is only one Body of Christ, the assertion of two peoples of God is another Gospel.

To deny, diminish or compromise the spiritual nature of the New Covenant and to somehow claim the Old Covenant still exists is to increase that spiritual death which Paul mentions in Romans 8: 6.

 

[Aenon]

In the Old Covenant a person entered into that Covenant by entirely physical means: one was born to Jewish parents or bought as a servant into a Jewish household (Genesis 17:10-13). Every male was circumcised, whether he showed any devotion to God or not. But in the Old Testament, there was recognition that physical circumcision was not enough. Moses told the Israelites in Deuteronomy 10:16 to circumcise their hearts, and promised that God would do the circumcising (Deuteronomy 30:6). Jeremiah also emphasized the need for a circumcision of the heart (Jeremiah 4:4).

Physical circumcision was required of all males to be in the Old Covenant. It was necessary but not always spiritually sufficient to please God. Jeremiah 4: 4 says to the Israelites to take away the foreskins from their hearts, so that God will not come against them with fury for their evil doings.

The Old Covenant involved physical things, circumcision, a physical bloodline, animal sacrifice, feast days, new moons, and a literal physical temple building. All these were done away with in the New Covenant.

In contrast, to enter the New Covenant a person must be born again (John 3: 3, 6-7). I Peter 2: 5, 9 says to the Christians "Ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house" and "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood..."

Christ came to bring spiritual life. "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10: 10 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8: 6 Carnally minded in Romans 8: 6 is from phronema tes sarkos, literally mind of the flesh, or flesh mind. To be in the condition of the flesh, rather than of the Spirit, is death.

"Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" II Corinthians 13: 5

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory
of this mystery among the gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."

Being born again means to be changed into a spiritual state from the state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, which cannot discern the things of the Spirit, which is man in a state which is entirely physical, and is death, and as Paul says if Christ is not in you, you are reprobate, not spiritual. Romans 12: 2 says to be transformed, and II Corinthians 5: 17 says when one is in Christ - and transformed into a spiritual state - he is a new creature.

The New Covenant is a covenant of spiritual life, and Haggai 2: 9 says "The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the Lord of hosts."

"He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 10: 9

"...and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10: 16 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ..." Romans 12: 5 "There is one body, and one Spirit..." Ephesians 4: 4

There cannot be two peoples of God, Old Covenant Israel and the Capital C Church.

The bloodline which defined Old Covenant Israel (Genesis 17: 6-9), according to Galatians 3: 3,16, 26-29, is now defined as a line from Abraham to Christ as the one seed from Abraham, and everyone in Christ is of that seed. The certain implication here is that the seed from Abraham was redefined as a spiritual seed.

To say that somehow Old Covenant Israel is still the chosen people of God while at the same time agreeing with Hebrews 10: 9 that Christ took away the Old Covenant to establish the New Covenant would be double minded. So dispensationalism instead says Old Covenant Israel still exists as the chosen people longside the Church. Since there is only one Body of Christ, the assertion of two peoples of God is another Gospel.

To deny, diminish or compromise the spiritual nature of the New Covenant and to somehow claim the Old Covenant still exists is to increase that spiritual death which Paul mentions in Romans 8: 6.

I agreed with everything you said until you mentioned dispensationalism.