women speaking in church

[TaylorDonBarret]

Women is not over a man if those in authority allow her to speak!

A position of authority is a position of authority, no matter what. If the woman is allowed to be in a position of authority, that does not make it ok. two wrongs does not make a right.

 

[Valleyofash]

I do not think that you can truly be a christian if you do not believe that everything God says it correct. We need to start with something much greater than the role of women in the church, and that is the perfection of God.

See, told you it would make me seem like a jerk. We have different conditions under which we are christian. I never go to church, I like a skull more than a cross, I have never started to read the bible, I cuss and use his name in vain, I listen to heavy metal (the hard stuff), and I don't live my life according to anyone but me. Please, give me your opinion on every single one of those things.

 

[B-A-C]

The following verses are about as politically incorrect as it gets, but nonetheless they are scripture.

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

1 Cor 11:8; For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1 Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

1 Tim 2:9; Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments,
1 Tim 2:10; but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.
1 Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

1 Pet 3:1; In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1 Pet 3:2; as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
1 Pet 3:3; Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
1 Pet 3:4; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
1 Pet 3:5; For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1 Pet 3:6; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
1 Pet 3:7; You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.

Eph 5:22; Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24; But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

Col 3:18; Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

Now before any of us men let this go to our heads and think women are supposed to be our slaves, perhaps we should start another threads about how husbands are supposed
to love their wives ( in fact there are more verses about how the man is to love his wife than how a woman should respect her husband )

 

[B-A-C]

See, told you it would make me seem like a jerk. We have different conditions under which we are christian. I never go to church, I like a skull more than a cross, I have never started to read the bible, I cuss and use his name in vain, I listen to heavy metal (the hard stuff), and I don't live my life according to anyone but me. Please, give me your opinion on every single one of those things.

I think all of this is already obvious from your previous posts. But we aren't supposed to judge those outside the church (the body of Christ).
By the way, IMHO listening to heavy metal isn't necessarily a sin.

 

[Travis]

See, told you it would make me seem like a jerk. We have different conditions under which we are christian. I never go to church, I like a skull more than a cross, I have never started to read the bible, I cuss and use his name in vain, I listen to heavy metal (the hard stuff), and I don't live my life according to anyone but me. Please, give me your opinion on every single one of those things.

I can share my opinion at least. I appreciate your honesty, but the fact that these things don't bother you makes me sincerely doubt you know Christ, that his Spirit has quickened your spirit and made you into a new creature. It would be a terrible thing for you to have had the seeds of the gospel sown often in your heart and to have born no fruit at all.

Hebrews 6
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

See, told you it would make me seem like a jerk. We have different conditions under which we are christian. I never go to church, I like a skull more than a cross, I have never started to read the bible, I cuss and use his name in vain, I listen to heavy metal (the hard stuff), and I don't live my life according to anyone but me. Please, give me your opinion on every single one of those things.

I am just going to be very blunt with you. You are not a Christian, and if you died right now you would not be saved.

"By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1 John 2:3-4

“Not all those who say ‘You are our Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. The only people who will enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On the last day many people will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, we spoke for you, and through you we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell them clearly, ‘Get away from me, you who do evil. I never knew you.’ Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Travis]

Now before any of us men let this go to our heads and think women are supposed to be our slaves, perhaps we should start another threads about how husbands are supposed
to love their wives ( in fact there are more verses about how the man is to love his wife than how a woman should respect her husband )

I think this is a good point.

Men who use the teaching of headship to turn others into slaves have a lot of bad things coming their way. There is a biblical order to things, but to turn into into a legalistic system is to invite death right in the door. Men are different than women and each should be treated differently than the other in a number of different situations.

It's OK to beat up on men once in a while, when they need it. We/they can take a lot of punishment. To do the same to women would be incredibly offensive, generally. When women start acting like men, they shouldn't get upset when they start getting treated like men though. Can't have your cake and eat it too. The opposite applies as well I think though.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Valleyofash]

I can share my opinion at least. I appreciate your honesty, but the fact that these things don't bother you makes me sincerely doubt you know Christ, that his Spirit has quickened your spirit and made you into a new creature. It would be a terrible thing for you to have had the seeds of the gospel sown often in your heart and to have born no fruit at all.

Hebrews 6
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.

I really don't know christ. I accepted Jesus into my heart as a kid without really knowing why. I did it because I was afraid I would be ridiculed if I didn't. Now I don't care if I am ridiculed for who I am. I need to get to know him though. My girlfriend is very religious and I feel that my being not so religious draws a gap between us.

 

[B-A-C]

I really don't know christ. I accepted Jesus into my heart as a kid without really knowing why. I did it because I was afraid I would be ridiculed if I didn't. Now I don't care if I am ridiculed for who I am. I need to get to know him though. My girlfriend is very religious and I feel that my being not so religious draws a gap between us.

I for one will be praying for you, in fact I already have been. That post alone shows God is working in you whether you realize it or not.

 

[Valleyofash]

I am just going to be very blunt with you. You are not a Christian, and if you died right now you would not be saved.

"By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1 John 2:3-4

“Not all those who say ‘You are our Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven. The only people who will enter the kingdom of heaven are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. On the last day many people will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, we spoke for you, and through you we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ Then I will tell them clearly, ‘Get away from me, you who do evil. I never knew you.’ Matthew 7:21-23

So you are saying that if I died right now, I would be dammed to hell? Whatever man. With all the stuff I've done in my life so far I'd probably deserve it...but to say that I am NOT christian makes me mad. I'm a christian, you can say otherwise if you wish. But you're just envious of my lifestyle, I live by no one's laws but my own. So continue to be envious of me bro, I kinda enjoy it.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

I really don't know christ. I accepted Jesus into my heart as a kid without really knowing why. I did it because I was afraid I would be ridiculed if I didn't. Now I don't care if I am ridiculed for who I am. I need to get to know him though. My girlfriend is very religious and I feel that my being not so religious draws a gap between us.

Then do something about it. Christ went to the cross in order to give you the opportunity to be free from your sin. In order to receive that gift, you have to actually want to be free from sin. That means, love God more than you love sin; so that, every time you feel tempted to sin, the love of God prevents your from doing so.

Your starting point must be faith in Christ, knowing that He is perfect, that He is God, that is Savior. That He died on the cross just for you, to forgive you of your sins. Next, your going to need to repent of all your sins. This is a daily, hourly, minute-by-minute, every waking second transformation where God becomes your everything, all the time, no matter what. It is going to be nearly impossible unless you come to realize that the bible is truly God's word, and perfect. I am sure that you think there are many errors in it, but trust that there are none. It is flawless. And it is your guide to Christ.

 

[Valleyofash]

I for one will be praying for you, in fact I already have been. That post alone shows God is working in you whether you realize it or not.

Thank you for the considerate thought my friend, glad to see not everyone here has to be rude to prove a point.

 

[Travis]

My girlfriend is very religious and I feel that my being not so religious draws a gap between us.

To be frank, but hopefully not rude, that's a really bad reason to get to know Christ.

If you repent and turn to God, entrusting your life into his care, he may decide to have you give up your girlfriend, your job, your friends, your family, every last thing you own, because of the plans he may have for you. God is scary, I try not to mess around with him, he can crush me like a nat if he so desires. But he is good, and merciful, and he is Love. He created the whole universe out of nothing. He holds everything that exists together and in order. Our pitiful lives are like a speck in the overall scheme of things, just so trivial, so short, and in a sense, so meaningless. Yet, God sent his only Son to die for us, to taste death for us so that we might have eternal life. This fact alone should cause us to fall on our faces and worship God for all eternity.

If you're going to decide to truly follow Christ, to say, "whatever Christ would have for me, I'm going to do it, to say, I'm going to jump head first into this thing and not look back," then do so because the Spirit of God is so moving on your heart that to do anything else but give yourself wholly to God would just be absurd. Some day you, and me, and everyone else will stand alone before a holy and a righteous God, to answer for what we did with the life he gave us. Only those who have taken up their cross and followed Jesus will be justified on that day. Taking up your cross means doing whatever Christ has called you, individually to do. I don't know what plans God may have for you, but I guarantee you this, there is no better deal on this side of eternity one can have than trade the broken mess we call our lives in exchange for the eternal life that Jesus has to offer. Give your life to the Lord, he can do a whole lot more with it than you or I could ever do.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

So you are saying that if I died right now, I would be dammed to hell? Whatever man. With all the stuff I've done in my life so far I'd probably deserve it...but to say that I am NOT christian makes me mad. I'm a christian, you can say otherwise if you wish. But you're just envious of my lifestyle, I live by no one's laws but my own. So continue to be envious of me bro, I kinda enjoy it.

No, not at all envious. Trust me, before I became a Christian I lived like the devil. I was a steroid addict, a big buffed up bodybuilder, i smoked weed everyday, did cocaine, crystal meth, and even prostituted myself out to pay for all my drugs and living expenses. I have been to 4 different jails in 3 different counties and had 5 different felonies charged against me. And that was just 18 months ago. Today I live for God

I did not tell you that you are not a Christian out of envy, or spite, or hatred, or malice. I told you the fact out of love.

The Holy Spirit says in God's word that "we know that we have come to know Him (God) if we follow His commands. The one who says that He knows God but does not obey God is a liar" and Jesus says "Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter into Heaven, only those who do the will of God (only those who obey God)"

You see, being a Christian doesnt mean that you believe that Jesus is God, that Jesus died on the cross. Even demons believe that. Being a Christian means much, much more than that. It means that God's Spirit is actually living inside of you, making it so that you become more and more like Jesus every single waking moment.

 

[ph8th]

I think it is important that we all understand that we are not given authority to deifne morality for ourselves. Our opinions are worthless, it is only God's judgement that holds weight.

What you may not realize is that your argument applies to homosexuality as well. If females can take on male roles, and males take on female roles, if believers are no longer male or female but in fact a spirit which has no sexual identity, then there is absolutely no different between a heterosexual marriage and a homosexual marriage.


We can not just "follow our heart", our hearts are depserately wicked. We must realize that The Holy Spirit will not contradict God's word, and therefore if we feel that The Holy Spirit is calling us to do something that God's word has told us not to... then it is not The Holy Spirit but it is our own evil desires or the desires of a demonic spirit persuading us.

Sir women are not an abomination please do not mix my words to present your case for homosexuality. Regardless of who might agree with you God is going to remain the same. <<<<<<<< remember never changing yesterday today and forever.....I believe God has convicted your heart and that is why you are wrestling with this. You know it is not right and you seem to be attacking it from every direction you can. Let it go!
Holy Spirit has not contradicted Gods word.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Sir women are not an abomination please do not mix my words to present your case for homosexuality. Regardless of who might agree with you God is going to remain the same. <<<<<<<< remember never changing yesterday today and forever.....I believe God has convicted your heart and that is why you are wrestling with this. You know it is not right and you seem to be attacking it from every direction you can. Let it go!
Holy Spirit has not contradicted Gods word.

You are right, women are not an abomination. Women are women. And Women are also not some sexless spirit being, they are women. Men are men and women are women. And so when God's word says that women should not teach in church - it means exactly what it says.

 

[B-A-C]

Sir women are not an abomination please do not mix my words to present your case for homosexuality. Regardless of who might agree with you God is going to remain the same. <<<<<<<< remember never changing yesterday today and forever.....I believe God has convicted your heart and that is why you are wrestling with this. You know it is not right and you seem to be attacking it from every direction you can. Let it go!
Holy Spirit has not contradicted Gods word.

I'm not exactly sure how you arrived at the point that he thinks women are an abomination. God loves women. I love a few. I love my mom, my wife and my daughters.
While women are not an abomination, people who choose not to be the sex God made them to be are called an abomination.

Deut 22:5; "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Some Bibles leave out the word effeminate above, however the original Greek uses this word.
The verses above are from the NASB Bible.

G3120
μαλακός
malakos; a prim. word; soft, effeminate: - effeminate (1), soft (3).

 

[ph8th]

I think it is important that we all understand that we are not given authority to deifne morality for ourselves. Our opinions are worthless, it is only God's judgement that holds weight.

What you may not realize is that your argument applies to homosexuality as well. If females can take on male roles, and males take on female roles, if believers are no longer male or female but in fact a spirit which has no sexual identity, then there is absolutely no different between a heterosexual marriage and a homosexual marriage.


We can not just "follow our heart", our hearts are depserately wicked. We must realize that The Holy Spirit will not contradict God's word, and therefore if we feel that The Holy Spirit is calling us to do something that God's word has told us not to... then it is not The Holy Spirit but it is our own evil desires or the desires of a demonic spirit persuading us.

This statement you attached your homosexual garbage to ..... I said nothing about a woman teaching in church
There have been many woman who have ministered to me and taught me through my walk. I pray they continue.
Being born of spirit we are spirit .......... are spirit beings male and female?

 

[B-A-C]

This statement you attached your homosexual garbage to ..... I said nothing about a woman teaching in church
There have been many woman who have ministered to me and taught me through my walk. I pray they continue.
Being born of spirit we are spirit .......... are spirit beings male and female?

I've always considered "the harlot of babylon" as a spiritual being. Certainly not a good spirit, but a feminine spirit.
Also the spirit of "Jezebel the prophetess" is likely a spiritual name. Again, not a good spirit, but a feminine spirit it seems.

 

[ph8th]

I've always considered "the harlot of babylon" as a spiritual being. Certainly not a good spirit, but a feminine spirit.
Also the spirit of "Jezebel the prophetess" is likely a spiritual name. Again, not a good spirit, but a feminine spirit it seems.

So you believe that God does not speak through woman?
Are you suggesting that the woman I was referring to in my post were of evil spirit?
Wisdom is referred to as feminine... do you believe wisdom is evil?
Was Deborah of the OT who was a prophetess evil?
Do you believe Esther when declaring the fast was evil?
Do you believe woman are the dwelling place of Holy Spirit?
If so do you believe they can be led of Holy Spirit?