women speaking in church

[rag4aCrown]

blessings in the Lord;
women speaking or teaching in church; we must get out of the carnal flesh and the law of the old sect and be born again, of the Water and the Spirit. amen

I am reminded of the Word of God; there is neither Jew nor Greek, nor bond nor free, nore MALE nor FEMALE. Amen. God is SPIRIT; and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Amen. Many honor Him with their lips but their heart is far from Him. Amen.

When one speaks forth in Spirit and Truth, hearts are convicted and people get offended and they want to fight you. One is offended and hearts are convicted if one is not in right standing with God to begin with.

However, when that happens and it will, one should not fight back and become as unruly as they are. Jesus stirred the spirits, and God showed men their evil hearts; any envy and religous pride; hypocrisy! hang my Lord on a tree.

My Lord died because He loved the church; and His own people persecuted Him, rejected Him, and killed Him; and because they did God's grace was extended unto all the world. Amen.

Have they changed? Is the love of God found in their hearts now? Amen. I pray God awaken Your people; lift the dark veil; tear down the devils stronghold of fear and control within her walls; in Jesus name I pray. Amen. Thank you Lord that you hear me. Amen

 

[Redeemed11]

So are you for or against women speaking in the church or exercising authority over a man?

 

[clark thompson]

Women should be encouraged to serve the Lord in ways they are called however they should not take authority over men.

 

[ph8th]

There have been many woman who have ministered to me and taught me through my walk. I pray they continue.
Being born of spirit we are spirit .......... are spirit beings male and female?

Galatians 3:28 (NASB)
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is a]"neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Woman as any and all that belong to Him should speak and teach as prompted by Him.

 

[Redeemed11]

There have been many woman who have ministered to me and taught me through my walk. I pray they continue.
Being born of spirit we are spirit .......... are spirit beings male and female?

Galatians 3:28 (NASB)
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is a]"neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Woman as any and all that belong to Him should speak and teach as prompted by Him.

I believe that women have a very important place in the church. But that place is not to teach or have any kind of authority over a man, or to speak during the assembly of the saints: "Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection. But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness." (‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭11-12‬ ASV) and "let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law. And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church. "(‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34-35‬ ASV). So I have to disagree with that last statement @ph8th , because Paul , inspired of the Holy Spirit, told the church at Corinth that women should do the exact opposite of "Woman as any and all that belong to Him should speak and teach as prompted by Him."

In love and hope,
Jacob

 

[mere5]

I thought the interpretation was women are known for gossiping in the church back then just as they do today. They are distracting everyone from the Word. We all see this no matter what church we go to....

 

[Redeemed11]

@mere5 are you referring the the verses I gave? Sorry. Confused

 

[mere5]

@mere5 are you referring the the verses I gave? Sorry. Confused

No I was talking about women speaking in church in general.

 

[Redeemed11]

Well, we know we aren't to gossip, any of us (Romans 1:29 says it is unrighteous), but women aren't supposed to talk at all during worship. I think you are thinking of 1 Timothy 5:13 "Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not." This is Timothy talking about widows who are young and aren't what he calls "true widows." He says not to take note of them as a church and care for them as you would an older widow, because the young widows are generally involved in these things. So we are to take care of them in a different manner than we would an older widow.

 

[ph8th]

Brother how come you did not address Gal 3:28?
Please explain these scriptures also, if you will
I Corinthians 11 refer to women prophesying 1 Corinthians 14 Says that when one prophesies it edifies the whole body. Romans 16 starts with Paul telling the saints of Rome to welcome Phoebe and be subject to all she ask of them and to provide all her needs. Is he telling them to subject themselves to her?
Just questions

 

[Redeemed11]

Dear @ph8th ,

Nothing I have said contradicts anything, if that were so the very bible would be contradicting itself. We know this isn't true, let's look at Gal 3:28. This is not at all speaking of worship. It has just spoken of salvation in the previous verse: Gal 3:27. This is comparing the difference between the old law and the faith that has now come through Jesus Christ. This is a reference to the oneness of the promise to Abraham about Jesus quoted in earlier verses, it is a figure of speech to signify the fact that now there is no distinction salvation-wise between anyone. Any person who wants to can be saved. A male or female Gentile or Jew. Taking this verse out of context we can apply it to everything. But if we just took Matthew 7:1 and did not read the rest of the chapter following we wouldn't know that we are actually supposed to judge people! Just not in a certain manner. We are to judge righteously John 7:24 says. You see, if we take ALL the scriptures and look at them as a whole, it is clear that women are not to be teachers or speak in worship.

Now, in regards to 1 Corinthians 11. In 1 Cor 11:5 we read how women could prophesy and pray.. I have not nor will I deny this. But does that mean it was during the worship service? Let's jump over to 1 Corinthians 14 now. We read a lot about spiritual gifts, especially of their limitations. One being that the "spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Cor 14:32. Directly after we read "For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." ‭1 Cor‬ ‭14‬:‭33-35‬. So... If a women were to receive a revelation of prophecy then, she was to keep silent. And she could because her spirit was subject to her, she could control it. So she obeyed the will of God and kept silent in the assembly, prayed silently and had private revelation, or they would have been going against the will of God and it would have been "shameful." A woman is subject to a man. Therefore, since people cannot prophesy now, but they can pray, what we can take from this is that women aren't allowed to speak aloud during the assembly of the saints. For as Paul tells us, that's how it is in "all the churches of the saints."

As for Pheobe, does it ever say that they are to be subject to her? No.. It says they are to assist or help her. That would be Paul contradicting himself! And we know he didn't do that, because the Holy Spirit is perfect and it was Him working through Paul to deliver both these messages. Pheobe was merely a servant of the church, as all women should be. She even supported Paul we read at the end Rom 16:2. She didn't have to be up preaching and talking or having authority over men (1 Tim 2:12) in the churches to be a servant.

 

[ph8th]

Thank you, I will be the first to admit I do not know it all. But I do know the Lord put a lot of people in my life to strengthen my journey to Him and a lot of them are women.
Here is something that is pertinent


Questions About 1 Timothy 2:11


-


1 Tim. 2:11-12 says: “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” We will begin with a few observations about these verses, noting
areas in which we need further clarification:
1)Paul did not believe that “a woman...must be silent” at all times. He says that women can pray and prophesy in a worship service (1 Cor. 11). There may be a difference between
prophecy, which Paul allowed, and teaching,
which he did not or a special situation in Ephesus may have called for silence.
2)
The Bible does not teach that females can
Never have authority over males.
Scripture allows women to have civil authority over men, 2 and to have authority over male children, male teenagers, and possibly others. Again, we must find out what situation Paul was dealing with, and whether it applies to the church today.
3)
When Paul says, “I do not permit...,” he is stating his policy for churches in
his jurisdiction. This may imply that all Churches in subsequent centuries should have a similar policy—or it may not.
4)
1 Tim. 2:11 says that a woman shoul
d learn in “full submission.” However,
Scripture does not teach that a woman must be in total submission to all men. So we need to find out what kind of submission Paul is talking about.
5)
1 Tim. 2:12 does not use the normal Greek word for authority (exousia)—it uses the rare Greek verb authenteō. We need to find out
whether there is a difference in meaning between these two words.
6)
In verses 13-15, Paul appears to give
Reasons for what he says in v. 12. But
the reasons given create additional questions:
a)
V. 13 says that Adam was formed first, but it is not clear why that should be a reason for women to avoid authority specifically in church, when women can have authority in civil government.
b)V. 14 says that Adam was not deceived—
thereby suggesting that he sinned deliberately. It is not clear why this is a reason for men to have authority.
2
God gave Deborah authority as a prophetess and judge, and Esther as a queen.
Copyright Grace Communion International. All rights reserved.

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2


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[Redeemed11]

In regards to Old Testament examples, we are under the New Covenant now and thus any Old Testament scripture is strictly for our instruction or learning ( Romans 15:4 ). In 1 Corinthins 11 we read they can pray and prophesy but can people not pray to thenselves? Can a person not have a private revelation? Would this not be in total harmony with what is said just two chapters later about women keeping silent? If they don't it's shameful. And, as we read: women don't speak in any of the churches of the saints.
To prove your point, could you please provide a scripture to support a woman speaking in the assembly? We have the scriptures that teach against it vehemently, ( 1 Timothy 2:11-12, and 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ), please find a New Testemant example for us to follow. Thank you!

In hope and love,
Jacob

 

[B-A-C]

I don't think anyone is saying women can't be involved in ministry. Certainly there were some in the New testament.

Rom 16:1; I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;
Rom 16:2; that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.
Rom 16:3; Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,
Rom 16:4; who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles;
Rom 16:5; also greet the church that is in their house. Greet Epaenetus, my beloved, who is the first convert to Christ from Asia.
Rom 16:6; Greet Mary, who has worked hard for you.

Acts 16:14; A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
Acts 16:15' And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.
Acts 16:40; They went out of the prison and entered the house of Lydia, and when they saw the brethren, they encouraged them and departed.

2 Tim 1:5; For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.
2 Tim 1:6; For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

Women can certainly minister over other women, and over children. But it says they should not have authority over a man.
Some say a woman can have a ministry over men, if they themselves are under the authority of a man.
Yes, Esther was a queen, but she was under the authority of the king.

 

[Grace]

Paul had earlier said that women are allowed to pray or prophesy out loud in church (1 Corinthians 11:5), and therefore Paul could not have been commanding all women to be totally silent in church. This "silence" means something else. Paul said that everyone has gifts which can be used in church meetings, and he said that anyone can speak a message in tongues or give a word of prophecy in church as long as it's done in an orderly and considerate manner (verses 26-33). Paul did not exclude women from exercising their spiritual gifts in church. Then Paul said that if anyone (whether a man or a woman) is publicly speaking in tongues, then that person should "keep quiet" if no interpretation comes forth (verse 28). "Keep quiet" is the NIV's translation of the Greek word sigao, which means "to keep silent...hold peace," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. This is the same Greek word that Paul used in verse 30 when he said that a prophet (whether a man or a woman) should stop speaking when another prophet receives a word from the Lord, and it's also the same Greek word that Paul used when he said that women should "remain silent" (verse 34). So in order for a church meeting to be "orderly," there are times when men and women can exercise their spiritual gifts, and there are times when men and women need to be silent.

 

[B-A-C]

I personally have taken 1 Cor 11:1-15; to be in a private setting rather than a church setting. But that's just me, I can't prove or disprove it.
If we get a little more legalistic here, we can get into women keeping their heads covered and men taking off their hats.
Women having longer hair and men having shorter hair. This isn't emphasized in many churches, but people get defensive when you bring it up
and call you a legalist. Perhaps,... maybe it is isn't a requirement, but at the very least it shows respect to the God of the Universe.

Even if this isn't speaking in particularly about a private setting (say a husband and wife). It seems "MOST" of the time in scripture when a prophecy was
given, it was in a smaller group, often 2 or 3 three people. This is the reason I don't think all prophecy has to occur in a church congregational setting.
We are still part of the body even when we are alone in private.(at least we should be) so even if I give a prophecy to a single person or smaller group, that
still qualifies as edifying the body. It doesn't always have to be the entire body (in fact if we're talking about the big "C" church, then that would hardly ever happen).

 

[Redeemed11]

Ma'am, I apologize but nowhere do we read that the women are to speak. We read (in the verse you cited in 1 Corinthians 11) that women CAN pray and prophesy. Now I personally do not believe that anyone can prophesy now, which is not pertinent here, but I strongly believe In prayer. And in the teen prayer group I started we have women actively participate, but not in LEADING the prayer. They read scripture and we all discuss together, but never do then excersize authority. The men lead (as per authoritY is given) and the men (or boys) that don't want to keep silent right along with the girls. But in a worship service setting there is no getting around the fact that for everything to be in an orderly fashion women are to keep silent. It doesn't say when, it just says to. There isn't even a time for them to ask questions during the assembly (she is to ask her husband at home, we read) so I don't see how any exceptions or barriers can be put on the command for women not to speak. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets (as we read in 1 Corinthians 14) and so if things are to be done orderly, women Were to keep their prophecy or prayer quiet during the assembly.

 

[Grace]

Ma'am, I apologize but nowhere do we read that the women are to speak. We read (in the verse you cited in 1 Corinthians 11) that women CAN pray and prophesy. Now I personally do not believe that anyone can prophesy now, which is not pertinent here, but I strongly believe In prayer. And in the teen prayer group I started we have women actively participate, but not in LEADING the prayer. They read scripture and we all discuss together, but never do then excersize authority. The men lead (as per authoritY is given) and the men (or boys) that don't want to keep silent right along with the girls. But in a worship service setting there is no getting around the fact that for everything to be in an orderly fashion women are to keep silent. It doesn't say when, it just says to. There isn't even a time for them to ask questions during the assembly (she is to ask her husband at home, we read) so I don't see how any exceptions or barriers can be put on the command for women not to speak. Plus, as I mentioned earlier, the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets (as we read in 1 Corinthians 14) and so if things are to be done orderly, women Were to keep their prophecy or prayer quiet during the assembly.

Looks like we will just have to disagree then! Because my Bible does say that prophecy has ended!

Paul was not saying that all women in all churches must be silent, but rather he was speaking specifically to married women who were creating disturbances during the church services.

 

[B-A-C]

Looks like we will just have to disagree then! Because my Bible does say that prophecy has ended!

Paul was not saying that all women in all churches must be silent, but rather he was speaking specifically to married women who were creating disturbances during the church services.

I am just curious where the scripture is about about prophecy has ended?

 

[Grace]

I am just curious where the scripture is about about prophecy has ended?

Can't find it in my Bible! Not until we see Face to face and know as we are known.