Revelation 13

[Eric E Stahl]

Revelation 13

The beast that comes out of the sea is the revived Roman Empire, which will consist of all the "Christians" nations. After the rapture God will cause all the people who have heard the truth of the gospel and rejected Jesus to believe the lie of the antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12. The Harlot church that remains after the rapture is Harlot Babylon. The ecumenical Christian church will tell the politicians what to do till God causes the ten kings that come to power with the antichrist to give their power to the antichrist and destroy the harlot church which will be centered in the city of Rome Revelation 17:12-18. The antichrist is one of the heads of the beast that will be wounded in the head and be blinded in his right eye and have a shriveled hand Zechariah 11:15-17.

The beast out of the earth is the false prophet.

The Pope will probably not be the false prophet because he will have more power by leading Harlot Babylon during the first half of the tribulation.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Will someone tell me what that little mark that looks like glasses means, by my post.

 

[Chad]

Will someone tell me what that little mark that looks like glasses means, by my post.

Hi brother. It means you're watching that thread. Also, subscribed to it.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Thank you Chad.

 

[just-a-servant]

Revelation 13
The beast that comes out of the sea is the revived Roman Empire, which will consist of all the "Christians" nations. After the rapture God will cause all the people who have heard the truth of the gospel and rejected Jesus to believe the lie of the antichrist 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12. The Harlot church that remains after the rapture is Harlot Babylon. The ecumenical Christian church will tell the politicians what to do till God causes the ten kings that come to power with the antichrist to give their power to the antichrist and destroy the harlot church which will be centered in the city of Rome Revelation 17:12-18. The antichrist is one of the heads of the beast that will be wounded in the head and be blinded in his right eye and have a shriveled hand Zechariah 11:15-17.
The beast out of the earth is the false prophet.
The Pope will probably not be the false prophet because he will have more power by leading Harlot Babylon during the first half of the tribulation.

Those are a lot of absolutes. Do you have a direct line to God which makes you positive? If not, maybe you'd care to reveal which are your opinions and which are absolute, take it to the bank, positively true statements.
When teaching, it is imperative that your information is accurate - especially when teaching from Revelation. If what you are doing is asking for a review of your statements, then that is another matter. I'd hate for you to get caught up in absolutes when just blathering. It IS important to refine and sharpen your beliefs by bouncing them off others, but before you go spouting off with a bunch of statements which aren't supported by scripture, you should first try to test the waters with them. Others here will be glad to help sharpen your beliefs with their knowledge.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Hi Servant,
Did you notice the scriptures I gave in my post? God will cause every person that has heard the truth of the gospel and rejected the truth to believe the lie of antichrist.
Since much of America has heard the gospel and rejected Jesus, they will follow antichrist. So will the other "Christian"nation 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12. What is your understanding of this passage?

 

[just-a-servant]

Hi Servant,
Did you notice the scriptures I gave in my post? God will cause every person that has heard the truth of the gospel and rejected the truth to believe the lie of antichrist.
Since much of America has heard the gospel and rejected Jesus, they will follow antichrist. So will the other "Christian"nation 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12. What is your understanding of this passage?

I did notice the scriptures you had referenced. You also surrounded them with absolute statements which are not part of what I believe. Therefore I discounted your entire argument as being false.

Revelation 13

The beast that comes out of the sea is the revived Roman Empire, (where is your proof of this statement?) which will consist of all the "Christians" nations. (This is nonsense and not supported by any scripture) After the rapture God will cause all the people who have heard the truth of the gospel and rejected Jesus to believe the lie of the antichrist (this assumes the pre-trib rapture is correct - again not proven by scripture) 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12. The Harlot church that remains after the rapture is Harlot Babylon. (Absolutely not true, Rev 17:18 states the Harlot is a city!) The ecumenical Christian church will tell the politicians what to do (I'd have to see that in scripture before I'm even able to write a response) till God causes the ten kings that come to power with the antichrist to give their power to the antichrist (that's a pretty loose translation of Rev 17:12-17) and destroy the harlot church which will be centered in the city of Rome (a whole lot of hogwash) Revelation 17:12-18. The antichrist is one of the heads of the beast that will be wounded in the head and be blinded in his right eye and have a shriveled hand Zechariah 11:15-17. (Lucy, you got some splainin to do!)

The beast out of the earth is the false prophet.

The Pope will probably not be the false prophet because he will have more power by leading Harlot Babylon during the first half of the tribulation.(What scripture reference can you give which shows the Pope is anything and in what time period he is? My bible only says there is a false prophet - it does not identify him.)

I've gone through your previous post and pointed out things you are declaring as absolute. I think you should re-assess your post and not only say what you know, but prove what you say.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Servant ,
What do you think 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 means?

 

[Travis]

Question,

What makes a nation, a Christian nation?

 

[William Christopher]

The only thing I can take from this with certainty is that we need to share the whole gospel. The spirit of antichrist, that lie, is going to be so compelling that if it were possible even the elect would be deceived. From what I see in the latter half of the New Testament, pretty much everywhere, the spirit of antichrist is a deceitful spin of the gospel itself. There's going to be plenty of signs and wonders to support the doctrine of antichrist, and it has been around almost as long as the church has. Paul warned against it constantly. James, Jude, and Peter warned against it. Knowledge isn't going to be a defense against this lie; carnal minds aren't capable of seeing enough big picture to use knowledge to defeat the spirit of antichrist. Fiery darts no longer seem an appropriate metaphor; this lie is the equivalent of a spiritual atomic bomb. So again, we need to share the whole gospel that God might convict more hearts to repent, so that less might be given over to believe that lie. The half-preached, half-believed, fallacy-ridden, ear-scratching excuse for gospel being peddled by hirelings will not protect anyone.

For the record, I really don't see what Zechariah 11 has to do with either the antichrist as an individual or the spirit of antichrist. When Jesus references this scripture in John 10:13, he paints a pretty clear portrait not of the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist, but the archetype of a hireling tending sheep who flees when a wolf approaches because he doesn't care for the sheep. Seems more indicative of a spiritual leader who might not intend evil for the flock, but in his heart is only in it for the money (thus, "an hireling"), and when push comes to shove, self-interest supersedes the well-being of the flock. In John 10:14, Jesus reiterates that he knows his sheep, and his sheep know him, indicating that the hireling is not actually a member of Christ's church. Earlier on in John 10:10, there is another archetype: the thief. The thief's purpose is to steal, kill, and destroy. The thief has no misconceptions about his intent; the thief has chosen in his heart to steal, kill, and destroy. I guess the point is this: If the thief and the hireling were the same, why would Jesus illustrate them as different? And if they are different, what does Zechariah 11:17 have to do with the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist? I believe scripture tells us that it is not in relation to the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist, but that false teachers in the "church" who mean well will be fruitless; their labors crippled and their spirits blinded. It is important to realize that these teachers are not the same as the spirit of antichrist, but will instead become subject to its lie.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Question,

What makes a nation, a Christian nation?

Hi Travis,
A nation who's predominant religion is Christian. If you are unsure which nations would qualify ask a Muslim which are the Christian nations.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

The only thing I can take from this with certainty is that we need to share the whole gospel. The spirit of antichrist, that lie, is going to be so compelling that if it were possible even the elect would be deceived. From what I see in the latter half of the New Testament, pretty much everywhere, the spirit of antichrist is a deceitful spin of the gospel itself. There's going to be plenty of signs and wonders to support the doctrine of antichrist, and it has been around almost as long as the church has. Paul warned against it constantly. James, Jude, and Peter warned against it. Knowledge isn't going to be a defense against this lie; carnal minds aren't capable of seeing enough big picture to use knowledge to defeat the spirit of antichrist. Fiery darts no longer seem an appropriate metaphor; this lie is the equivalent of a spiritual atomic bomb. So again, we need to share the whole gospel that God might convict more hearts to repent, so that less might be given over to believe that lie. The half-preached, half-believed, fallacy-ridden, ear-scratching excuse for gospel being peddled by hirelings will not protect anyone.

For the record, I really don't see what Zechariah 11 has to do with either the antichrist as an individual or the spirit of antichrist. When Jesus references this scripture in John 10:13, he paints a pretty clear portrait not of the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist, but the archetype of a hireling tending sheep who flees when a wolf approaches because he doesn't care for the sheep. Seems more indicative of a spiritual leader who might not intend evil for the flock, but in his heart is only in it for the money (thus, "an hireling"), and when push comes to shove, self-interest supersedes the well-being of the flock. In John 10:14, Jesus reiterates that he knows his sheep, and his sheep know him, indicating that the hireling is not actually a member of Christ's church. Earlier on in John 10:10, there is another archetype: the thief. The thief's purpose is to steal, kill, and destroy. The thief has no misconceptions about his intent; the thief has chosen in his heart to steal, kill, and destroy. I guess the point is this: If the thief and the hireling were the same, why would Jesus illustrate them as different? And if they are different, what does Zechariah 11:17 have to do with the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist? I believe scripture tells us that it is not in relation to the antichrist or the spirit of antichrist, but that false teachers in the "church" who mean well will be fruitless; their labors crippled and their spirits blinded. It is important to realize that these teachers are not the same as the spirit of antichrist, but will instead become subject to its lie.

16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
—Zechariah 11:16–17 KJV

God says He will raise up a shepherd for Israel that will have no mercy for the people. Please remember that God sends strong delusion to the people who have heard the truth of the gospel but have rejected it, so they will believe the lies of the Antichrist and follow his leadership. Someone or something will wound him in the arm and right eye. The arm will be useless and the eye will be blind.

 

[Travis]

Hi Travis,
A nation who's predominant religion is Christian. If you are unsure which nations would qualify ask a Muslim which are the Christian nations.

Hey Eric,

Ya, most every Muslim would consider America to be a Christian nation. This couldn't be farther from the truth, in my opinion. Our founding fathers were mainly deists if at all religious in the first place. They drew their morality very heavily from the King James Bible, but it stopped about there. They were really upright and moral people, don't get me wrong, but I don't believe anywhere near the majority of them had faith in Christ Jesus. I'm glad they crafted the constitution the way they did, even though it is largely ignored today.

I think the predominant religion in America today is humanism of some sort. Despite what people claim to worship, it seems most people worship the god, humanity, and self. I would be pretty hard pressed my self to label any nation on the face of the earth today as Christian. I think this verse sums it up for me, "...the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

The only nation I see Jesus coming back for is the one mentioned in 1 Peter 2

9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:​

Which nation may be made up of a number of Americans, Israeli's, Canadians, Spaniards, French, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Australian, etc.

I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[William Christopher]

@Eric E Stahl
You didn't listen to a word I said. :/ Is the antichrist going to literally eat the flesh of the fat? What human has claws to tear?

 

[Eric E Stahl]

@Eric E Stahl
You didn't listen to a word I said. :/ Is the antichrist going to literally eat the flesh of the fat? What human has claws to tear?

No. It will be the 10 kings that are in control of the earth that will nuke Rome and take the assets of the apostate church. Then they give their power to the antichrist.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Hey Eric,

Ya, most every Muslim would consider America to be a Christian nation. This couldn't be farther from the truth, in my opinion. Our founding fathers were mainly deists if at all religious in the first place. They drew their morality very heavily from the King James Bible, but it stopped about there. They were really upright and moral people, don't get me wrong, but I don't believe anywhere near the majority of them had faith in Christ Jesus. I'm glad they crafted the constitution the way they did, even though it is largely ignored today.

I think the predominant religion in America today is humanism of some sort. Despite what people claim to worship, it seems most people worship the god, humanity, and self. I would be pretty hard pressed my self to label any nation on the face of the earth today as Christian. I think this verse sums it up for me, "...the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

The only nation I see Jesus coming back for is the one mentioned in 1 Peter 2

9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:​

Which nation may be made up of a number of Americans, Israeli's, Canadians, Spaniards, French, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Australian, etc.

I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.

Blessings,

Travis

It is true that Jesus will come back for the nation "ethnic group" of believers in Jesus. It is also true that Jesus and the anointed believers will come back to save Israel at the end of the tribulation Habakkuk 3:11-13 .

 

[Chad]

What makes a nation, a Christian nation?

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I think this verse is a good start. It all starts with each individual. Generally though, it's never going to happen in this sinful world. Not even Israel honors GOD as a chosen nation in the first place.

 

[Travis]

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I think this verse is a good start. It all starts with each individual. Generally though, it's never going to happen in this sinful world.

Amen.

Not even Israel honors GOD as a chosen nation in the first place.

Ya, I don't think the nation we call Israel today gives much to honor God. I can't think of any nation, with borders, off the top of my head, that does. Some day they will.

Psalm 2
1 Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying, 3 "Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us." 4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision. 5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying, 6 "As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill." 7 I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, "You are my Son; today I have begotten you. 8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." 10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise; be warned, O rulers of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish in the way, for his wrath is quickly kindled. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

 

[just-a-servant]

Servant ,
What do you think 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 means?

Eric,
Apparently your agenda is to get someone to comment on this passage so you may then pontificate about it from your viewpoint. Okay, I'll bite.

Verses 6-8 tell us there is a power holding the lawless one back which will soon be removed. The Lord Jesus will destroy the lawless one.

Verses 9-10 is simply a description of the methods the man of lawlessness will use (and is using) to deceive many. There's nothing new under the sun

Verses 11-12 tell us God will send a delusion to those who don't believe. In my opinion, these are the poor souls who have taken the mark of the beast - those who cannot be redeemed. Would there be any reason they would be allowed to respond to the Gospel after they had already heard and rejected it?
2Thes 2:10b "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [and] 11 For this reason . . . "

Now it's your turn.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Eric,
Apparently your agenda is to get someone to comment on this passage so you may then pontificate about it from your viewpoint. Okay, I'll bite.

Verses 6-8 tell us there is a power holding the lawless one back which will soon be removed. The Lord Jesus will destroy the lawless one.

Verses 9-10 is simply a description of the methods the man of lawlessness will use (and is using) to deceive many. There's nothing new under the sun

Verses 11-12 tell us God will send a delusion to those who don't believe. In my opinion, these are the poor souls who have taken the mark of the beast - those who cannot be redeemed. Would there be any reason they would be allowed to respond to the Gospel after they had already heard and rejected it?
2Thes 2:10b "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [and] 11 For this reason . . . "

Now it's your turn.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

Hi Servant,
I had already discussed this passage in my first post and you said you disagreed so I asked what you believed. God sends the delusion at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation. The mark of the beast starts after 666 is given control of the earth by the 10 kings at the middle of the tribulation.

I can't spell good enough to pontificate.

John 16:7-8 tells us that the comforter will reprove the world of sin after he comes into believers in Jesus. It is he the Holy Spirit that is letting or restraining the Mystery of Iniquity and when he is taken away we go with him to heaven.