Who Does God Forgive?

[B-A-C]

I thought you might,

2 Corinthians 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

I don't doubt Jesus holds up His end of the bargain. The question is.. do we?
2 Tim 2:13; just because He remains faithful doesn't mean we always do.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

This is a trick question right?
Only victims need to forgive.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

I thought you might,

2 Corinthians 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.​

​

Yes, God guarantee's our salvation when we repent and trust in the Savior. No one can snatch us out of the palm of His hand. However, He does not force us to remain in His palm. We can repent, believe, receive The Holy Spirit; and then (knowing what The Holy Spirit "has to offer"), turn around and reject the Heavenly gift and willfully serve Satan. A perfect example of this, is Satan himself. And all the angels who knew God personally and lived in Heaven with Him, but chose to rebel and follow Satan. We are afforded the same liberties of free-will. Certainly, the eternal 'salvation' of Satan and Satan's demons would have remained sure, and guaranteed, just so long as they served God. You may say the rules are different for humans, but we know from clear scripture, where it is repeated over and over, that the rules concerning free-will do indeed apply to us.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

This is a trick question right?
Only victims need to forgive.

"Against You, and You alone, have I sinned.." (Psalm 51:4)

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

"Against You, and You alone, have I sinned.." (Psalm 51:4)

This does not imply that the creator was victimized by the creation at all.

The Father sent a sacrifice or victim.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Perhaps David was referring to the victim whom God sent.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Jesus Christ is the creator.

[h=1]Is Jesus or God the creator of all things?[/h]
[h=3]Isaiah 44:24 and Colossians 1:16-17[/h]

• God created all alone (Isaiah 44:24)--"Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone."
• All things created by/through Jesus (Colossians 1:16:17)--"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

There is no difficulty here at all when we realize that the Trinity is involved. The Trinity is the doctrine that God is three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son is the Word, which was God and with God (John 1:1)--that became flesh in Jesus (John 1:14). Since Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and He has two natures, divine and human (Col. 2:9)), we can then have Jesus being the creator, and God being the creator alone. In other words, Jesus is God and God created all things alone.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Jesus Christ is the creator.

Is Jesus or God the creator of all things?


Isaiah 44:24 and Colossians 1:16-17

• God created all alone (Isaiah 44:24)--"Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone."
• All things created by/through Jesus (Colossians 1:16:17)--"For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

There is no difficulty here at all when we realize that the Trinity is involved. The Trinity is the doctrine that God is three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son is the Word, which was God and with God (John 1:1)--that became flesh in Jesus (John 1:14). Since Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and He has two natures, divine and human (Col. 2:9)), we can then have Jesus being the creator, and God being the creator alone. In other words, Jesus is God and God created all things alone.

Yes,I agree
Jesus was the word made flesh,but he did not leave heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Since God is not subject to space and time he has time to be everywhere and everything without going anywhere at any time.

I'm just looking at it from no time and space into time and space.
I could never figure out how something temporary (bound in time and space) can harm something eternal.
A need to forgive is a need.Need implies lack and lack does not describe the creator.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Yes,I agree
Jesus was the word made flesh,but he did not leave heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Since God is not subject to space and time he has time to be everywhere and everything without going anywhere at any time.

I'm just looking at it from no time and space into time and space.
I could never figure out how something temporary (bound in time and space) can harm something eternal.
A need to forgive is a need.Need implies lack and lack does not describe the creator.

a couple of thoughts...

God does not need to do anything, let alone forgive us. But in His great love, He sent His son to die for us so that He could forgive us; because He wants to forgive us. Not because He has to.

God is not "everywhere and everything", He made everything and He is aware of everything everywhere, but He is not everything. God is not the feces in your anus, but He did create it.

How can we harm God? Well, God is love. He loves us. And when we choose to sin, it hurts Him, because He loves us, and He doesn't want His loved ones choosing to harm themselves (choosing to sin).

However, I do not think the question of needing God's forgiveness is so much about hurting Him, but more about being a guilty criminal and unworthy of life. The wages of sin is death; and we deserve destruction. The only way to get our crimes dismissed in God's court of law (the only way to receive forgiveness) is by someone paying our fines. Jesus paid our fines on our behalf, He was the only one who could do it, because everyone else is guilty and owes fines in God's criminal court of law as well.

I hope this helps

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

God does not need to do anything, let alone forgive us. But in His great love, He sent His son to die for us so that He could forgive us; because He wants to forgive us. Not because He has to.

Agreed,that is basically my point.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

God is not "everywhere and everything", He made everything and He is aware of everything everywhere, but He is not everything. God is not the feces in your anus, but He did create it.

I only said that he has time to do so.

How can we harm God? Well, God is love. He loves us. And when we choose to sin, it hurts Him, because He loves us, and He doesn't want His loved ones choosing to harm themselves (choosing to sin).

Do you suppose he was in any way surprised,or unprepared by our actions ?
Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
The lamb of God was not an an afterthought.Nor a remedy for some kind of mistake.
1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

However, I do not think the question of needing God's forgiveness is so much about hurting Him, but more about being a guilty criminal and unworthy of life.

Maybe its about mercy.
Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Eternal means no beginning and no end,always is ,always was,always will be.
That would explain why no man has gone to heaven except he who came from heaven.
Going to heaven or becoming eternal would be a beginning.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

According to Eph 2:4-6 we are already seated in heavenly places and have been since Jesus was resurrected.
However the Lamb of God was foreordained before the foundation of the world.And according to Rev 13:8 the Lamb was slain before the foundation,so if we were in the Lamb before time or space began then the term eternal life would fit because there is no beginning but a reawakening or rejoining.It seems to me that if we can ever be eternal we must be so now without our awareness of it.The prodigal son was not born in the pig pen.

I don't mean to provoke and run but
I don't want to divert to much from the subject of the thread or hijack the discussion.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus was the word made flesh,but he did not leave heaven.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

I couldn't believe that KJV was worded like that. So I had to go check it. Still after comparing with other Bibles, I don't disagree with it. The word "even" is sometimes
used as "except"

Here is John 3:13; in several other translations.

(AMP) And yet no one has ever gone up to heaven, but there is One Who has come down from heaven--the Son of Man [Himself], Who is (dwells, has His home) in heaven.

(ASV) And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

(GNB) And no one has ever gone up to heaven except the Son of Man, who came down from heaven."

(GW) No one has gone to heaven except the Son of Man, who came from heaven.

(HCSB) No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven--the Son of Man.

(ISV) "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

(KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

(MKJV) And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

(MSG) "No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man.

(NAS77) "And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man.

(NASB) "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

(NIrV) "No one has ever gone into heaven except the One who came from heaven. He is the Son of Man.

(NIV) No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

(NLT) No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man [who lives in heaven] has come down from heaven.

John 6:38; "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

I suppose it could be debated who the second Adam here is.

Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Apparently Jesus was in heaven at some point.