RJ
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Yes MOOT.....LOL, thanks!yes, a moot point
Is Jesus "God"?
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When Jesus was praying to God to spare him from the cup of suffering, was he praying to himself? Several times in scripture, it refers to Jesus praying to His Father. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, I believe that the Son exhalts the Father and gives Him all the glory for all that the Father does. Would He be doing this, if He were God? Scripture tells us, that God sent His Son to save us from our Sins, that He comes from the Father, and goes back to the Father. .
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Don't be delusional. The trinity is scriptural. Also, watch your tone here.
http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11922-trinity.html
SpiritLedEd
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I think we are all agreed that God is eternal and that He is the source of love. It follows then that being eternal, He had to always have an object (another person or persons) equal to Himself to love before man was created. Also, God could not create man to live in community if He himself did not live in community. Hence the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is valid.
SLE
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DHC
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Revelation 7:17
for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to
springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Who is sitting in the center of the throne in heaven, 'the Lamb in the center of the throne'.
for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to
springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.
Who is sitting in the center of the throne in heaven, 'the Lamb in the center of the throne'.
RJ
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- So, for some reason, you want to deny that Jesus is God, perhaps you are JW and this is just how you have been raised.
- Do you believe in the emmaculate conception?
- As a Christian, who is it that lives inside you?
- Jesus said, " I stand at the door and knock, who ever opens the door, I will come in"! But, scripture says we can not blaspheme the Holy Spirit...which is it Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
- The Bible says in the begining the word was with God and the word was God, who do you think the word is?
- The Bible says in the begining that that man was made in our image....who is our? Is our singular or plural?
- If God is anything, he is a God of mystery and miracles.....what don't you understand abot perfect and ALL powerful?
Marcus01
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Gee I dont see Trinity anywhere in the Bible Chad. Maybe you can show me some scripture that talks of a Triune God. And dont threaten me son. There was no tone just the fact that The trintiy is not scriptural and is a doctrine of Satan the Devil. I am sorry if that stings but does not change the fact it is true. It is a doctrine of the philosophy of men. FACT!!! The trinity is not scriptural it is mentioned nowhere. You can twist and wrest scriptures to try to validate it but it is nowhere. Show me the term God the son in scripture? You will never find it. Anyway I cannot but speak the things that are true.
RJ
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Here are plenty of verses but you simply don't want to believe! So, it doesn't say the words Trinity or Triune, so what? To be "Born Again" and a true Christian, there is no doubting the Trinity or the Triune God. God's word is folly to the non-believer.
- Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 John 5:7-8 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (Read More...)
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (Read More...)
John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 1:1-51 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Read More...)
Matthew 3:17 - And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])
Acts 5:3-4 - But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? (Read More...)
John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 10:30-36 - I and [my] Father are one. (Read More...)
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matthew 3:16-17 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (Read More...)
Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Psalms 2:7 - I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Exodus 7:1 - And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Genesis 11:7 - Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Genesis 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Hebrews 1:8 - But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:27 - To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Colossians 1:16-17 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Read More...)
Colossians 1:16 - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:15-17 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Read More...)
Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (Read More...)
Galatians 3:20 - Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (Read More...)
Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Psalms 110:1 - (A Psalm of David.) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalms 82:6 - I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
Genesis 1:2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1 Peter 1:1-2 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (Read More...)
Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Galatians 4:6 - And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28 - And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Acts 28:25-27 - And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, (Read More...)
Acts 13:2 - As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Acts 13:1 - Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Acts 5:4 - Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Acts 5:3 - But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
Acts 3:15 - And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Acts 2:1-47 - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Read More...)
John 17:1-26 - These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: (Read More...)
John 16:12-15 - I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. (Read More...)
John 16:7 - Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 14:16 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 8:17 - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Matthew 4:7 - Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Matthew 3:16 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Daniel 7:13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Ezekiel 11:5 - And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, [every one of] them.
Isaiah 48:16 - Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Isaiah 44:24 - Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 6:8-10 - Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me. (Read More...)
Isaiah 6:8 - Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me.
Psalms 90:2 - Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God.
Psalms 82:1 - (A Psalm of Asaph.) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psalms 2:12 - Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.
Job 33:4 - The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Job 26:13 - By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Genesis 1:1-31 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Read More...)
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Hebrews 11:17 - By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],
John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].
Isaiah 42:8 - I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
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@marcus. In the very firs chapter of Hebrews, Jesus is the Representation of God, not a representative. In the very first chapter of Hebrew's, God spoke "Through" the prophets and "By" His son now". Do you notice anything? "Through" and "By". This is God saying that He, in His majestic humility, inspired men and then used them to prophecy His word. Not all men, but some, so as to let the rest know. Now, He does it "By" His Son. This tells us He does it Himself now and doesn't speak through Jesus as He did man but He speaks "By" Jesus which means Jesus is God. Also, use the word "Gee" or "Geez" again and I will report you. Make a full of your own God, never mine!
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Account closed. Calling me son? Absurd.
The word "Atheist" isn't in the bible either be we know they are there.....
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Amen to that.
Jesus was fully God and fully man. he was worshiped hear on earth and will be in heaven. he came down from heaven and returned to heaven. he is the great i am. even the pharaises , understood him to say he was befor abraham. anyone claming Jesus is not God is wrong.
RJ
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Us is God: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Always has been and will be for ever!
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Without any disrespect tghlsn. God never said "Let us make man who is us". When you or I discuss scripture we must get the word of God correct, then we can discuss the Bible.
RJ
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- Genesis 1:26 :Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
- With all respect, tghslh has got it right and, he is asking who is "us"? Us is the Trinity, I am not sure what Bible you are looking at?
- us / our means plural, more than one!
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I read the KJV NIV and I also have the geneva bible and a few other's. Anyway, You said " Let us make man who is us". That's wrong and I wasn't inferring anything about the Trinity. "Let us make man whois us". Is far different than "Let us make man in our own image." Man is not God as ,your comment clearly states. Image is a representative not representation. Mirror image when you look in the mirror, is only an image of you but is not you. Maybe it's you that's reading the wrong bible.
About "Let us make man":
God is not matter; He is spirit, His being, faith, imagination, knowledge, wisdom and creative power are immeasurable,
Furthermore, when reading the Bible narrative, it's always helpful to understand that, when God speaks, He speaks from 'eternity past'.
By this I mean: because God is the beginning and end of everything, he speaks as from "eternity having already passed".
While this concept can be difficult to grasp, it nonetheless remains true.
For instance, at the time when God created the first caterpillar, He 'spoke into existence' the potential of the butterfly within it.
When God created man, He 'spoke into existence the potential of a 'son of God' within him.
When God speaks, He speaks out from boundless faith. Because of that, He speaks out from a time which is after the aeons have expired; and after eternity has already passed.
Simply put: when God said, "Let us make man ...", He was speaking from out of the position when His Word had already accomplished that which He pleased; (Isaiah 55:11).
We know that God rules in two dimensions and that the natural man rules only in one dimension. Thus, the natural man is only the image of God because his rule only prevails in the natural world, (Psalm 8:6).
But the natural man is intended to rule according to the way God reigns; having dominion in both heaven and on earth ... in the natural world as well as the spiritual world; over visible things as well as invisible things.
To continue answering the matter concerning "Let us":
Genesis 1:26-28 reads: "Let us make man in our image and after our likeness". This is to be understood as a metamorphosis; a process of development and maturity. Because God is spirit, He speaks about both "in our image" which is the caterpillar and "after our likeness" which is the butterfly; the caterpillar is a natural man and the butterfly is a spiritual man.
"But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is", (1John 3:2).
We now have better insight into the meaning behind the scripture saying, "The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man", (1Cor 15:46-49).
We are born in the image of God and reborn, (undergoing a metamorphosis), into the likeness of God.
"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit", (2Cor 3:18). This metamorphosis/transformation from image to likeness concludes when our our bodies also become changed. Our natural is to be changed into a spiritual body in a point of time. Meaning to say: the natural body is engulfed in a spiritual body. This is the end of the transformation process.
Our metamorphosis from the caterpillar to the butterfly, from natural man to spiritual man, and God's image to God's likeness is expressed as a 'born again' experience.
Adam was a perfectly natural man. Jesus Christ was the perfect spiritual man, the second or last Adam.
Lucifer was the first of the heavenly creation. Adam was the first of the natural creation. Jesus Christ is the first of a new creation; "The firstborn of all creation".
When God said in the Genesis account, "Let us", He was speaking from out of eternity already passed ... from out of the time when Jesus, (as the first born of the new creation), invites all the caterpillars to enjoy a metamorphosis and become butterflies.
In addition:
The :Let us make man" does not point to a co-creator besides God. Nor does it point to the presence of Jesus Christ at that moment.
With this pronouncement, God is appealing to all the angels around His throne to serve and accompany man(kind) in its development. All the angels are invited to contribute to the realization of God's plan with men.
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