Quit!!!!!!!!

[Brighthouse]

I truly believe that different views on certain areas of the Word is not a bad thing. example( acts 15) There has always been dissension among even believers. hehe To discuss these matters in an open forumn is dandy,as long as no one thinks more highly of themselves as he ought to think.( rom 12:3) I can take correction,for at a mere 60 years of age,i still have a great deal to learn from both the young and old here. So If i believe i have a problem with someone here,i would take that problem to that person, rather then all here,for i have no need to look to make another less then myself in any area of life.( 1 tim 3:16-17) So as a reminder to us all,please do remember how important another person is over you,because a friend loves at all times ( proverbs 17:17) and a brother or sister who becomes offended is harder to be won than a strong city,and contentions are like the bars of a citadel.( proverbs 18:19) This is my mindset, i hope to encourage you all in the same way. blessing.

 

[james1523]

Today there is the concept that every individual Christian can have a different teaching, doctrine, opinion or concept concerning the Word, and everything is satisfactory.


From God's point of view it is not a satisfactory situation. Various and different opinions of man and concepts destroy the unity in the church. God already gave His sound doctrine to His apostles and we all have it in our Bibles, so there is no excuse for having different opinions.


If we want to keep our own opinion at the expense of instruction and understanding, the Bible says we are a fool (Proverbs 18:2). A fool does not listen to sound doctrine or teaching but rather prefers to hold and make known their own opinions. The majority of Bible study groups that churches run today are in fact not Bible studies at all but places for people to make their own opinions known.
I have been in many Bible study groups which are full of fools, who don't care about what the bible says but simply want to insist on their own opinion which is contrary to God's Word. Sometimes it is an unbiblical opinion such that all religions lead to God, and sometimes its a biblical opinion but the person is too obsessed with it.


Contrary to an idea that everyone can have their own opinion and own voice, the Bible teaches that the early Christians were in one mind and one voice.
1 Peter 3:8 Finally, all of you should be of one mind. Sympathize with each other. Love each other as brothers and sisters. Be tenderhearted, and keep a humble attitude.
Rom 15:6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


How did the early church achieve this oneness of mind and voice? The answer is found in Acts 2:42.


The early Christians, in a state of practical unity and oneness, devoted themselves to 4 things:
Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.




1) Apostles' teaching. God already gave us the apostle's teaching in our Bibles. Whenever we go beyond, add to, or take away from what is in the written Word, particularly the apostle Paul's teachings, we stray from the apostles' teaching, and fall into opinions of man.
2) Fellowship - the early Christians were devoted to fellowship, in Greek koinonia. Fellowship is not social contact as it is largely defined today, where Christians get together to discuss the latest news, movies or sport, but refers to people being mixed together, to share, to participate. Participate in what? The Holy Spirit (2 Cor 13:14). Fellowship in the Biblical sense is defined as the flow of the Holy Spirit among the believers.
3) Breaking of bread - communion - this is to remember the Lord. When we forget about the Lord we fall into disarray, disunity and confusion. We should remember that the Lord is in our midst (Matt 18:20). If we truly believe that the Lord is present, we would not dare to disturb the unity by expressing our own opinions. If the Lord is truly present we would forget about our opinions since we are lost in the presence of the Lord.
4) Prayer - the matter of corporate prayer causes individuals to forget their own concepts and opinions and unite with other believers for a common purpose. Prayer also stirs up the believer's spirit and empowers the believers with God's strength and grace. In most churches today only the pastor or worship leader prays in the service, the majority of pew- sitters remain silent and withdrawn into their own individual opinions and concepts, and hence they cannot experience true unity or fellowship.

In summary, Acts 2:42 says 4 things:


1) Sound doctrine - go back to the Bible and apostle's teaching.
2) Active participation and sharing - not in the flesh or the natural man or mere social contact, but in the Spirit of God. People who are not actively participating in church invariably are withdrawn into themselves with a wandering mind in their own opinions.
3) Remembering the Lord - not just what He did on the cross but also His active presence and participation in our midst. Hopefully every Christian can agree about the Lord and not have different opinions about that.
4) Prayer - corporate prayer is vital to remaining together. "A church that prays together stays together" (eye-rolling, but true).

 

[ushalk]

There were no denominations as we know them in the first century, but, 1 Cor 1:10 points out the divisiveness that had sprung up in the Corinthian church. It seems to me that such open quarreling is a sign of prideful thinking/behavior.

SLE

what were the harsh words paul used in the writing to the Corinthians. he did not say it was a good thing or even okay. he showed a great disturbance for the fact. or should we ignore that to comfort ourselves in our own wrong.

 

[Fenn]

what were the harsh words paul used in the writing to the Corinthians. he did not say it was a good thing or even okay. he showed a great disturbance for the fact. or should we ignore that to comfort ourselves in our own wrong.

Why not quote the scripture to remind those of us what Paul said?
I am also waiting for the scripture you are preparing that says we should not bring someone to church without sharing Christ first.

 

[ushalk]

Why not quote the scripture to remind those of us what Paul said?
I am also waiting for the scripture you are preparing that says we should not bring someone to church without sharing Christ first.

1 Corinthians: 1-4 = And I, brethren, could not speak to you as a spiritual people but as to carnal as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you. are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says I am of Paul and another, I am of Apollos, are you not carnal?

there is no difference in them stating I am of paul or apollos and today where everyone is stating I am Lutheran and I am Baptist and I am Pentecostal. we are either christs or we are not. there is nothing else.

now can someone please show me in the bible where people were invited into the gathering of the saints before they were told of christ

 

[Christ4Ever]

1 Corinthians: 1-4 = And I, brethren, could not speak to you as a spiritual people but as to carnal as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you. are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says I am of Paul and another, I am of Apollos, are you not carnal?

there is no difference in them stating I am of paul or apollos and today where everyone is stating I am Lutheran and I am Baptist and I am Pentecostal. we are either christs or we are not. there is nothing else.

now can someone please show me in the bible where people were invited into the gathering of the saints before they were told of christ

Hello brother ushalk.

In reference to inviting to a gathering of saints before being told of Christ, is not exactly what you previously stated. You stated must be believers. Please do not take this wrongly, but the above question you posed can easily be turned around to ask the same of you. Is there a place where it says they must be told of Christ before being invited? Please don't use the associating with unbelievers verse.

I've been rather curious in what scripture you are putting together. As far as who do I belong to? I am Christs', denomination is irrelevant, yet points to doctrinal belief for those who are interested. Kind of like you now know where I stand as it pertains to doctrine, not how I stand as it pertains to Jesus Christ. Even you must admit that the Apostles had their own disagreements. One reason Paul went to Jerusalem to talk with Peter and those gathered there. I do agree that it did not split them, and though scripture doesn't make mention of it in creating a split, I have to believe that many of the Jews of the day and later did not agree with Pauls' stance on the subject and left or created their own churches. Only supposition brother. though there are Messianic churches as well today.

Now in regards to non-believers being invited. Though the below verse pertains to the speaking of tongues, you should be able to see the relevance (underlined it to the unbeliever being in church with believers.


1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Love you brother ushalk
YBIC
C4E

 

[ushalk]

Hello brother ushalk.

In reference to inviting to a gathering of saints before being told of Christ, is not exactly what you previously stated. You stated must be believers. Please do not take this wrongly, but the above question you posed can easily be turned around to ask the same of you. Is there a place where it says they must be told of Christ before being invited? Please don't use the associating with unbelievers verse.

I've been rather curious in what scripture you are putting together. As far as who do I belong to? I am Christs', denomination is irrelevant, yet points to doctrinal belief for those who are interested. Kind of like you now know where I stand as it pertains to doctrine, not how I stand as it pertains to Jesus Christ. Even you must admit that the Apostles had their own disagreements. One reason Paul went to Jerusalem to talk with Peter and those gathered there. I do agree that it did not split them, and though scripture doesn't make mention of it in creating a split, I have to believe that many of the Jews of the day and later did not agree with Pauls' stance on the subject and left or created their own churches. Only supposition brother. though there are Messianic churches as well today.

Now in regards to non-believers being invited. Though the below verse pertains to the speaking of tongues, you should be able to see the relevance (underlined it to the unbeliever being in church with believers.


1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Love you brother ushalk
YBIC
C4E

I never stated they should not be able to step foot in the church. My point is and always has been to many people evangelizing their church rather than Christ. all gatherings of the saints should be open to anyone. but as believers our first evangelistic approach should be to share Christ first not our church.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I never stated they should not be able to step foot in the church. My point is and always has been to many people evangelizing their church rather than Christ. all gatherings of the saints should be open to anyone. but as believers our first evangelistic approach should be to share Christ first not our church.

Hello brother ushalk,

If the below is a my misreading of your responses I beg your forgiveness ahead of time. If not and you misspoke, I understand, and appreciate the clarification as well.
​

• Please look at your below quote #13, where you are basically saying that there are preconditions to inviting them (non-believers) to church: "they were first taught the gospel" and "they accepted".

#13

people were first taught the gospel of Christ and then when they accepted were they invited to the church. the gathering of the body or people that were believers.

• Now let's look below at #34 where in your reply (the first sentence being Brighthouses', the second yours) you set similar preconditions to an invitation to church "sharing Christ", and "them accepting". Your example suggesting that unless those two items are done first that "a" church is placing themselves above Jesus.

#34

Quote Originally Posted by Brighthouse View Post
Please do give me one example of a church which places itself or its members above Jesus. So I can understand you better thanks bro

anytime a church goes out to bring people in without first sharing Christ with the people and them accepting Christ first is an example.

Note: You may not have stated in those exact words that "they (non-believers) should not be able to step foot in the church", however these two quotes amount to communicating this thought.

My own testimony and how I found myself in a little Baptist Church in Germany that was having a revival is an example that would have been negated if the Gospel & Accepting was a precondition to the invitation. A young man passed me and my roommate in the hallway and invited us to this church saying "we're having a revival". That was it. No Gospel, no explaining what a revival was, no evangelism that I can find in that simple invitation.

Yet because of that simple invite that very night I knelt on my knees with tears streaming down my face, knowing the sinner I am, begged forgiveness, and "Believed in Jesus Christs' atoning death and resurrection". Seeing a dark hole within me that I didn't know existed being covered by a bright light till all there was, was light! Alleluia, Glory to God on High! Amen!

That there are issues needing attention with the church's in this day; I'd be standing with you acknowledging this. Especially as it pertains to evangelism, on the highways and byways of this world. The lack of learning from professed believers, can dismay one. Still, it is with these situations that exists, that we are provided opportunities to hold that candle high, that all may see. (churches not withstanding).

As always. With the love of one brother to another.
YBIC
C4E

 

[rizen1]

Stop evangelizing your church and evangelize Christ. There is no place in the Bible where church is ever evangelized. Christ is our savior not a church or their activities. Bowling night does not bring people to Christ. Movie night is not saving souls. Don't get me wrong. There can be a lot of things to help with spiritual growth. But these things do not evangelize Christ to the unbeliever. This does not include Passion of the Christ. He alone saves and the Holy Spirit of God convicts. The apostles did not invite people to church. They invited people to Christ.

The original post above.

that's funny. I enjoyed reading that. however inviting people to church is by no means evangelism. it does not matter how we want to justify it, the apostles did not do it nor did jesus himself. nor is it written that way anywhere in the bible. people were first taught the gospel of Christ and then when they accepted were they invited to the church. the gathering of the body or people that were believers. not come to my church and become a member.

I believe the goal or main point of @ushalk (correct me ushalk because only God knows the hearts of men )

Stop evangelizing your church and evangelize Christ

After reading , "people were first taught the gospel of Christ and then when they accepted were they invited to the church." Whenever I see the word church, I immediately think of the body of Christ, not denomination member.

When I attend church events, the pastor would say bring your non believer friends, " most people won't enter a church, tell them it's a concert they will come."

I think church activities are great for members, especially youths once it not all play and no study. In my youth there was a wonderful balance, wednesday bible study, thursday worship practice & bible study ( for band members), Friday youth meetings ( casual bible study, followed by games, swimming and pizza ), there was a 16 and over group, and sunday evening we had a youth only church service, but we never missed the morning service. Every activity included bible study and worship, dress codes was strict and no dating in our youth department. I've yet to find a fellowship today that invested so much into their youths. As an adult I thank my home church for investing in me and teaching me to question everything. When you've met a man who says go home and test if what i say is correct, you've met a true man of God, who is open to correction and do not want blind sheep following him.

I don't believe ushalk is saying they can't come to church, instead he's saying we should give them Christ first before we advertise what the building offers. When that's the goal of a church, they would invest more into equipping their members VS filling the bulletin with events. Every member of my home church was beautiful people who opened the doors of their homes for the youths to fellowship. Even if activities attracted non believer to my church, my church members treated you like family and that's what kept members.

We'd have group sleep overs and movie nights at members homes...great memories.

Again Ushalk correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I think UShalk's message is simple: Stop promoting your church affiliation and concentrate on promoting Jesus.

SLE

 

[ushalk]

The original post above.

.




I believe the goal or main point of @ushalk (correct me ushalk because only God knows the hearts of men )



After reading , "people were first taught the gospel of Christ and then when they accepted were they invited to the church." Whenever I see the word church, I immediately think of the body of Christ, not denomination member.

When I attend church events, the pastor would say bring your non believer friends, " most people won't enter a church, tell them it's a concert they will come."

I think church activities are great for members, especially youths once it not all play and no study. In my youth there was a wonderful balance, wednesday bible study, thursday worship practice & bible study ( for band members), Friday youth meetings ( casual bible study, followed by games, swimming and pizza ), there was a 16 and over group, and sunday evening we had a youth only church service, but we never missed the morning service. Every activity included bible study and worship, dress codes was strict and no dating in our youth department. I've yet to find a fellowship today that invested so much into their youths. As an adult I thank my home church for investing in me and teaching me to question everything. When you've met a man who says go home and test if what i say is correct, you've met a true man of God, who is open to correction and do not want blind sheep following him.

I don't believe ushalk is saying they can't come to church, instead he's saying we should give them Christ first before we advertise what the building offers. When that's the goal of a church, they would invest more into equipping their members VS filling the bulletin with events. Every member of my home church was beautiful people who opened the doors of their homes for the youths to fellowship. Even if activities attracted non believer to my church, my church members treated you like family and that's what kept members.

We'd have group sleep overs and movie nights at members homes...great memories.

Again Ushalk correct me if I'm wrong.

right on the head sister. thank you. I am not always good with words. I feel like moses at times.

 

[ushalk]

I think UShalk's message is simple: Stop promoting your church affiliation and concentrate on promoting Jesus.

SLE

you are exactly right aswell brother.