Trying to understand 1 John 3:7-10

[james1523]

We cannot be in the Kingdom of God now because 1 Cor 15:50 tells us flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of God has many manifestations throughout the ages. One is the nation of Israel (past), another is the church (present), and the one you are speaking about, which the saints are to inherit, is the future millennial kingdom. You are correct that we are not in this kingdom of God now, since flesh and blood cannot inherit it. To inherit the kingdom is to enter into the manifestation of the millennial kingdom and inherit the enjoyment and feasting which accompanies it. We have not inherited the kingdom yet as it will occur in future:
Matt 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

However right now all believers are in the present kingdom of God on Earth, being the Church. Of the future millennial kingdom, no one is in this kingdom yet, but we will have a foretaste of it if we live in proper church fellowship with no divisions, and we have received knowledge and secrets about it (Matt 11).

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.


The Koine Greek word 'basileia' is translated in the N.T over 160 times as 'kingdom'.

The Koine Greek word 'basileia' is translated only once as 'reign', which somewhat aligns
with your definition.

The translation of the Greek word 'basileia' does not reduce to two competing definitions.
One definition being the 'rule or power of a king' and another being 'kingdom'. A translation
of any word in a Biblical text or otherwise, conforms to the simple definition of any word in
the original language.

'kingdom' in our English language means: country, state, or territory ruled by some authority.
In the Biblical text 'basileia' translates to kingdom, the defined domain of any ruling authority.
Kings or ruling parties come and go but the kingdom (basileia), empire or state, remains the same.

Luke 4:5
And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms (basileia) of the world in a moment of time.

One word is used above and the translators used 'kingdom', they did not use 'power' or 'rule'.

'Basileia' means 'kingdom' or 'empire' in the Koine Greek literature outside of the Bible.

'Basileia Romaion', the Greek name for the Byzantine Empire, translated as 'Empire of the Romans'
(wikipedia)

To push a theological meaning onto the word 'basileia' and then to translate it so. Would be to
corrupt the simple meaning of the word in the every day language at the time of Christ. Bible
translators do not deviate from the simple definitions of the Greek words.

You have been transferred from one kingdom to another kingdom, from one domain to another.
You are a new, spiritual creation in Christ, no longer a carnal, flesh and blood descendant of
Adam. Old things have passed away Judgenot, you are now a saint in the kingdom of God.

" Basileia ' can have different meanings or usages.
The New International version study Bible explains that the word Kingdom does not refer to an empire or principality in this verse.
All other occurrences when referring to Kingdom point to a literal dominion or domain like in Matt 6:33 , Rev 11:15, etc.
We are subject to that authority and live our lives under it but not yet residents of it.
" translated " means " transferred" from one power (evil) to another power (good)
when Jesus said the Kingdom of God is " within you ' I believe H e was referring to His physical presence being " among you " the Jewish leaders and people.He was speaking to.
Didn't Jesus say Satan was the god of this world-this is satan's kingdom now but Christ is returning to change all that.and will establish His Kingdom forever 2 Pet1:11

 

[B-A-C]

when Jesus said the Kingdom of God is " within you ' I believe H e was referring to His physical presence being " among you " the Jewish leaders and people.He was speaking to.
Didn't Jesus say Satan was the god of this world-this is satan's kingdom now but Christ is returning to change all that.and will establish His Kingdom forever 2 Pet1:11

If it was simply Christ, several questions arise. Now that Jesus is back in heaven, is there no "kingdom of heaven" amongst us anymore?
Also how do verses like Rom 14:17; Col 1:13; Col 4:11; Rev 1:6; play into this since Jesus was already ascended?
Finally if the kingdom of heaven is likened unto....
A field ( Matt 13:24; ) that had both wheat and tares in it, is Jesus both the wheat and the tares?
A net full of fish ( Matt 13:47; ) that had good fish and bad fish in it, is Jesus both the good fish and the bad fish?
A king who wanted to settle his accounts ( Matt 18:23; ) that had a wicked servant who refused to forgive others in it, is Jesus also that wicked servant?
Workers in a vineyard ( Matt 20:1; ) is Jesus all of the workers that came at different times of the day?
A wedding feast ( Matt 22:2; ) was Jesus the man in plain clothes who was thrown out?
Or all the verses above about people who are in God's kingdom here on earth? I can be an American citizen even though I am visiting another country.
I can be in God's kingdom even though I am living here on earth.

Php 3:20; For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

 

[RJ]

If it was simply Christ, several questions arise. Now that Jesus is back in heaven, is there no "kingdom of heaven" amongst us anymore?
Also how do verses like Rom 14:17; Col 1:13; Col 4:11; Rev 1:6; play into this since Jesus was already ascended?
Finally if the kingdom of heaven is likened unto....
A field ( Matt 13:24; ) that had both wheat and tares in it, is Jesus both the wheat and the tares?
A net full of fish ( Matt 13:47; ) that had good fish and bad fish in it, is Jesus both the good fish and the bad fish?
A king who wanted to settle his accounts ( Matt 18:23; ) that had a wicked servant who refused to forgive others in it, is Jesus also that wicked servant?
Workers in a vineyard ( Matt 20:1; ) is Jesus all of the workers that came at different times of the day?
A wedding feast ( Matt 22:2; ) was Jesus the man in plain clothes who was thrown out?
Or all the verses above about people who are in God's kingdom here on earth? I can be an American citizen even though I am visiting another country.
I can be in God's kingdom even though I am living here on earth.

Php 3:20; For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

.

• Agreed, heaven on earth is now! We are just not ready to experience the fullness of it yet.
• When Jesus left, he left us with the Holy Spirit. As never before, the Kingdom of God exists on earth in each "Born Again" Christian. In the meantime our ultimate and everlasting citizenship is in Christ and in heaven.
• If you didn't know: 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2: 6-7

 

[judge not]

If it was simply Christ, several questions arise. Now that Jesus is back in heaven, is there no "kingdom of heaven" amongst us anymore?
Also how do verses like Rom 14:17; Col 1:13; Col 4:11; Rev 1:6; play into this since Jesus was already ascended?
Finally if the kingdom of heaven is likened unto....
A field ( Matt 13:24; ) that had both wheat and tares in it, is Jesus both the wheat and the tares?
A net full of fish ( Matt 13:47; ) that had good fish and bad fish in it, is Jesus both the good fish and the bad fish?
A king who wanted to settle his accounts ( Matt 18:23; ) that had a wicked servant who refused to forgive others in it, is Jesus also that wicked servant?
Workers in a vineyard ( Matt 20:1; ) is Jesus all of the workers that came at different times of the day?
A wedding feast ( Matt 22:2; ) was Jesus the man in plain clothes who was thrown out?
Or all the verses above about people who are in God's kingdom here on earth? I can be an American citizen even though I am visiting another country.
I can be in God's kingdom even though I am living here on earth.

Php 3:20; For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one and the same.
The Kingdom of Heaven is where God is. Matt 5:34
the Greek word " entos " is better translated " in the midst of "
Jesus, who represents the Kingdom of Heaven was in their midst but they were to blind spiritually to see it.

Those parables you listed generally pertain to the followers of Christ and their level of faith and obedience.

 

[DHC]

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one and the same.
The Kingdom of Heaven is where God is. Matt 5:34
the Greek word " entos " is better translated " in the midst of "
Jesus, who represents the Kingdom of Heaven was in their midst but they were to blind spiritually to see it.

Those parables you listed generally pertain to the followers of Christ and their level of faith and obedience.

Hello Judge not.

The 'kingdom of heaven' and the 'kingdom of God' mean the same, but there is a difference
between them.

There are some differences in each of the Gospel accounts in the New Testament.
One of these notable differences is in which particular phrase given above, that the
Gospel author uses and why the author prefers one phrase over the other.

It may surprise some folk here that Matthew's Gospel is the only Gospel that uses the
phrase 'kingdom of heaven'. This phrase appears in no other Gospel account, in fact
it only appears again, twice in the book of Revelations.

Whereas the phrase 'kingdom of God' occurs every where else in the New Testament.

So why does Matthew's Gospel exclusively use the phrase 'kingdom of heaven' instead
of the standard phrase 'kingdom of God'?

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

The 'kingdom of heaven' and the 'kingdom of God' mean the same, but there is a difference
between them.

There are some differences in each of the Gospel accounts in the New Testament.
One of these notable differences is in which particular phrase given above, that the
Gospel author uses and why the author prefers one phrase over the other.

It may surprise some folk here that Matthew's Gospel is the only Gospel that uses the
phrase 'kingdom of heaven'. This phrase appears in no other Gospel account, in fact
it only appears again, twice in the book of Revelations.

Whereas the phrase 'kingdom of God' occurs every where else in the New Testament.

So why does Matthew's Gospel exclusively use the phrase 'kingdom of heaven' instead
of the standard phrase 'kingdom of God'?

The Gospel of Matthew does use Kingdom of God also-. Matt 6:33, Matt 12:28, Matt 19:24, etc.

Why do you think Matthew is the only one using Kingdom of heaven?

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

The 'kingdom of heaven' and the 'kingdom of God' mean the same, but there is a difference
between them.

There are some differences in each of the Gospel accounts in the New Testament.
One of these notable differences is in which particular phrase given above, that the
Gospel author uses and why the author prefers one phrase over the other.

It may surprise some folk here that Matthew's Gospel is the only Gospel that uses the
phrase 'kingdom of heaven'. This phrase appears in no other Gospel account, in fact
it only appears again, twice in the book of Revelations.

Whereas the phrase 'kingdom of God' occurs every where else in the New Testament.

So why does Matthew's Gospel exclusively use the phrase 'kingdom of heaven' instead
of the standard phrase 'kingdom of God'?

one other thing-Matthew respected the custom of Judaism and use the name of God as little as possible
what else do you have to add?

 

[DHC]

The Gospel of Matthew does use Kingdom of God also-. Matt 6:33, Matt 12:28, Matt 19:24, etc.

Why do you think Matthew is the only one using Kingdom of heaven?

Hello Judge not.

As to why Matthew preferred "kingdom of heaven" is that Matthew is writing to a Jewish audience.

Jews do not utter the name of God as they regard the name as sacred. Hence Matthew substitutes
'heaven' in place of 'God' some 31 times in his Gospel. There are three occurrences of 'kindgom of God'
in Matthew's Gospel but are more than likely due to copyist error.

Religiously observant Jews are forbidden to pronounce the name of God ('YHWH'), and when reading
the Torah they use the word Adonai ("Lord") instead. Although most Christians have no prohibition on
pronouncing the tetragrammaton ('YHWH'), in most Christian translations of the Bible, "LORD" is
used in place of the tetragrammaton. (wikipedia)

Matthew wrote his gospel to convince fellow Jews that Jesus was the messiah foretold in the Old Testament.
His gospel was written from a Jewish viewpoint for a Jewish audience. The internal evidence of this is so
overwhelming that it is often called "The Gospel for the Jews."

This gospel does not see the need to explain Jewish tradition. It is the only gospel that reports the story
which the Jewish priests put into circulation to explain the empty tomb. It uses the distinctly Hebraic
formula "Kingdom of Heaven", whereas the other books in the New Testament speak only of the
"Kingdom of God".

 

[james1523]

.

• Agreed, heaven on earth is now! We are just not ready to experience the fullness of it yet.
• When Jesus left, he left us with the Holy Spirit. As never before, the Kingdom of God exists on earth in each "Born Again" Christian. In the meantime our ultimate and everlasting citizenship is in Christ and in heaven.
• If you didn't know: 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2: 6-7

Strictly speaking when we are saved the Kingdom of God enters us, but we haven't entered anything, we are yet to enter the Kingdom of God/ Heaven (not the 3rd Heaven, but the rule and reign of God, on Earth "heaven on earth"). We have the K of G within us but we are still under the laws of the land of whatever place God put us. The Church is supposed to be a foretaste of the Kingdom of God we will enter into in future, however very few churches act like the kingdom of God, and very few people experience the kingdom of God at their local church.
To experience being in the Kingdom of God now, we would have to find a church which is of the same calibre as the one in the book of Acts, where you can drop dead for lying to the church leaders/Holy Spirit and if you abuse the communion wine you can fall sick and die. But also on the positive side a place where miracles happen and you can get healed or changed. A place where God's authority and rule is present and which does not tolerate any nonsense, or homosexuals, fornicators, liars, thiefs and pedophiles etc. If we find such a church then we can experience something of being in the kingdom of God, but until then, it is only learning to live according to the kingdom of God in us. A church where you can say or do anything without consequence, which happily accepts practising believing sinners, which does not preach the Bible, which has people talking and disrupting the service with mobile phones or chitter chatter, and which does not see any miracles or growth take place in its members, cannot be the kingdom of God on Earth.

 

[RJ]

Strictly speaking when we are saved the Kingdom of God enters us, but we haven't entered anything, we are yet to enter the Kingdom of God/ Heaven (not the 3rd Heaven, but the rule and reign of God, on Earth "heaven on earth"). We have the K of G within us but we are still under the laws of the land of whatever place God put us. The Church is supposed to be a foretaste of the Kingdom of God we will enter into in future, however very few churches act like the kingdom of God, and very few people experience the kingdom of God at their local church.
To experience being in the Kingdom of God now, we would have to find a church which is of the same calibre as the one in the book of Acts, where you can drop dead for lying to the church leaders/Holy Spirit and if you abuse the communion wine you can fall sick and die. But also on the positive side a place where miracles happen and you can get healed or changed. A place where God's authority and rule is present and which does not tolerate any nonsense, or homosexuals, fornicators, liars, thiefs and pedophiles etc. If we find such a church then we can experience something of being in the kingdom of God, but until then, it is only learning to live according to the kingdom of God in us. A church where you can say or do anything without consequence, which happily accepts practising believing sinners, which does not preach the Bible, which has people talking and disrupting the service with mobile phones or chitter chatter, and which does not see any miracles or growth take place in its members, cannot be the kingdom of God on Earth.

I disagree. My experiencing Christ in me and, in part, living in the kingdom of God, is a personal experience and has absolutely nothing to do with other humans around me!

 

[james1523]

I disagree. My experiencing Christ in me and, in part, living in the kingdom of God, is a personal experience and has absolutely nothing to do with other humans around me!

This shows you have not yet understood what a kingdom is. A kingdom does not only have 1 person in it, i.e. yourself - the kingdom of God is a corporate thing. If you are a Christian you are a member of the body of Christ which is God's kingdom on earth and in heaven. Suggest you read Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:25, 1 Cor 12:27. God not only rules in us, He also rules in all the other members of the Body of Christ, and God appoints some of them to rule over us too (the authorities in the church). The first Kingdom of God was the 12 disciples and each of them were not independent of the other. Certainly the disciples of Christ had something to do with each other as well as with Christ. And the first requirement to enter the Kingdom of God is water baptism. To enter the Kingdom of God we must walk on the narrow way which is not a way of isolation and independence but of corporate function and dependence upon the body of Christ.

 

[RJ]

This shows you have not yet understood what a kingdom is. A kingdom does not only have 1 person in it, i.e. yourself - the kingdom of God is a corporate thing. If you are a Christian you are a member of the body of Christ which is God's kingdom on earth and in heaven. Suggest you read Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:25, 1 Cor 12:27. God not only rules in us, He also rules in all the other members of the Body of Christ, and God appoints some of them to rule over us too (the authorities in the church). The first Kingdom of God was the 12 disciples and each of them were not independent of the other. Certainly the disciples of Christ had something to do with each other as well as with Christ. And the first requirement to enter the Kingdom of God is water baptism. To enter the Kingdom of God we must walk on the narrow way which is not a way of isolation and independence but of corporate function and dependence upon the body of Christ.

O.K. James, we come full circle and find ourselves disagreeing on fundamental issues. With regard to the "Body of Christ", hopefully we can agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior! How we get there, we abviously do not agree!

 

[james1523]

O.K. James, we come full circle and find ourselves disagreeing on fundamental issues. With regard to the "Body of Christ", hopefully we can agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior! How we get there, we abviously do not agree!

Sure Jesus is Lord and Savior, but of who? Just individuals or everyone together? Do you go to church RJ? Do you depend on others and do they depend on you? Are you practically living in the Body of Christ connected and dependent upon other members, or do you only accept it as a theological idea and doctrine?

 

[RJ]

Sure Jesus is Lord and Savior, but of who? Just individuals or everyone together? Do you go to church RJ? Do you depend on others and do they depend on you? Are you practically living in the Body of Christ connected and dependent upon other members, or do you only accept it as a theological idea and doctrine?

• Sure Jesus is Lord and Savior, but of who? Christians of course!
• Just individuals or everyone together?

1. "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you." First and foremost, God comes into the individual believer. Then he encourages us to fellowship with other Christians but, the individual first.
2. "to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours" This verse talks about the sanctification of the individual first James. It is a personal relationship between you and God first James...you know that!

• Do you go to church RJ?

1. Yes, but not by my choice because God calls me to be churched. If it were my choice, I probably wouldn't go.
2. Your point is weak James. It is not about me going to "a" church. I am a member of the church universal, which is the Body of Christ, no matter what I do, go or be what any man may think I should be.

• Do you depend on others and do they depend on you? Of course
• Are you practically living in the Body of Christ connected and dependent upon other members, or do you only accept it as a theological idea and doctrine? I won't respect this with a comment.
• James, you said it somewhere, we are all individually responsible to the Lord!
• James, do you consider yourself hollier and more righteous than me?

 

[james1523]

Sure Jesus is Lord and Savior, but of who? Christians of course!
Just individuals or everyone together?


"For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you." First and foremost, God comes into the individual believer. Then he encourages us to fellowship with other Christians but, the individual first.
"to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ--their Lord and ours" This verse talks about the sanctification of the individual first James. It is a personal relationship between you and God first James...you know that!

It is both a personal and a corporate relationship with God. Remember that in the Old Testament a person was saved by joining God's people, the Israelites. Similarly we are saved corporately when we join the church, the body of Christ. Your salvation does not depend only upon your personal relationship with God, but also your relationship with others. The great commandment is not just to love God alone but also to love "one another".

Christ also identifies Himself with His people. Surely you know the story of Paul's conversion, Acts 9:5, where Jesus told Paul that he was persecuting Him. Whatever Paul did to the believers, he was doing it to God. So you cannot say it has nothing to do with anyone else, because salvation is not just all about you. That is like the leg saying to the arm "I don't need you". But without the arm the leg wouldn't be able to balance. You need others and others need you. Whenever we fail to be an active participant of the body of Christ, we are hindering others in their spiritual growth and their salvation. So our salvation has at least something to do with others and other's salvation has something to do with us.

Do you go to church RJ?

Yes, but not by my choice because God calls me to be churched. If it were my choice, I probably wouldn't go.
Your point is weak James. It is not about me going to "a" church. I am a member of the church universal, which is the Body of Christ, no matter what I do, go or be what any man may think I should be.


Do you depend on others and do they depend on you? Of course
Are you practically living in the Body of Christ connected and dependent upon other members, or do you only accept it as a theological idea and doctrine? I won't respect this with a comment.
James, you said it somewhere, we are all individually responsible to the Lord!
James, do you consider yourself hollier and more righteous than me?

We are individually responsible to the Lord but the Lord is not only in the Heavens. As the book of Acts shows eg Acts 5:4, God is also in His people especially the church authorities. So to be responsible to the Lord also means to be responsible to others in whom the Lord dwells. If we love Christ and can see that Christ is in every believer then we will want to go to church to meet Christ. We may be a member spiritually but we also need to be a member practically. There is only one way to do that and that is to physically attend the meetings and come face to face with others.

 

[RJ]

It is both a personal and a corporate relationship with God. Remember that in the Old Testament a person was saved by joining God's people, the Israelites. Similarly we are saved corporately when we join the church, the body of Christ. Your salvation does not depend only upon your personal relationship with God, but also your relationship with others. The great commandment is not just to love God alone but also to love "one another".


Christ also identifies Himself with His people. Surely you know the story of Paul's conversion, Acts 9:5, where Jesus told Paul that he was persecuting Him. Whatever Paul did to the believers, he was doing it to God. So you cannot say it has nothing to do with anyone else, because salvation is not just all about you. That is like the leg saying to the arm "I don't need you". But without the arm the leg wouldn't be able to balance. You need others and others need you. Whenever we fail to be an active participant of the body of Christ, we are hindering others in their spiritual growth and their salvation. So our salvation has at least something to do with others and other's salvation has something to do with us.



We are individually responsible to the Lord but the Lord is not only in the Heavens. As the book of Acts shows eg Acts 5:4, God is also in His people especially the church authorities. So to be responsible to the Lord also means to be responsible to others in whom the Lord dwells. If we love Christ and can see that Christ is in every believer then we will want to go to church to meet Christ. We may be a member spiritually but we also need to be a member practically. There is only one way to do that and that is to physically attend the meetings and come face to face with others.

So you and the Progressive Theology of Corporate Salvation! No further comment, I am done!

 

[james1523]

So you and the Progressive Theology of Corporate Salvation! No further comment, I am done!

So you and your individualistic and baptism-less Christianity, I am done as well thankyou