Trying to understand 1 John 3:7-10

[RJ]

Hello RJ.

Good reply but you may have misunderstood what I actually said. This topic is extremely
complicated due to the very diverse theological opinion that accompanies the letter to the
Romans. Also, my reference to 'Gentile infants' was probably unwise in hindsight RJ.

When I said 'even Gentile infants were subject to the condemnation of the death penalty'.
The intention was to magnify the fact that death was introduced through Adam. Hence
all humanity will undergo a physical death, this physical death has no relationship to
the sinful nature of the descendants of Adam.

Death was introduced by Adam's offence, so death applies to all mankind. Even infants
die even though they have not had the opportunity to sin. Death itself is the condemnation
that Adam introduced by his first offence.

'15 For if by the transgression of the one the many died'

You may have been side tracked RJ, because I mentioned the little ones. But physical
death is no more evident than when little ones undergo this condemnation. Because
little ones have not had the opportunity to obey or disobey God. What a person does
or does not do in relationship to God, is outside of the federal judgement of God upon
all mankind irrespective of age. Physical death has reigned since Adam and was initiated
by Adam, that was Paul's revelation in chapter five of Romans.

Let me state clearly RJ, that I was not discussing whether little ones go to heaven or not.
I was talking about the physical death, the condemnation by God upon all humanity from
the time of Adam. Our fate rested in the hands of Adam and Adam dropped the ball, hence
we all die, even infants die RJ. We have been destined to die and to be disobedient, for God
has bound us all over to disobedience and death.

• Yes, I agree.
• But, I think we would also agree with Jesus when he said ( paraphrasing): let the dead take care of the dead, it is the living and spiritual life we should be concerned about!

 

[judge not]

Death spread to all because all others have sinned too not just because Adam sinned
You are guilty in God's eyes for only his or her own sin.
The death penalty is not inherited.
We are not born under the death penalty anymore than we are not born " under grace " from our converted Christian parents.
Grace has to be given to us after our own conversion it, is not passed onto us from birth because our parents were in a state of grace.

 

[DHC]

We are not saved by the blood of Christ.

Hello Judge not.

I read your previous post (# 40) and you seem to be promoting a theology, rather than what
the scripture reveals in Paul's letter to the Romans. Also Judge not, could you reduce the
number of points that you state in each post, as the length of the reply in response. Is just
too long to comfortably read and understand. Look at the size of this post given that I am
only replying to one of your statements, Judge Not. You said;

We are not saved by the blood of Christ.

The scripture indicates repeatedly that it is the very blood of Christ, that is the primary factor in
the reconciliation of mankind to God.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath
of God through Him.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to
the riches of His grace

1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood".

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:20
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place
once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:14
how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish
to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the
Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified,

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the
blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

1 John 1:7
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the
earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood

Revelation 5:9
...for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and
people and nation.

 

[RJ]

Death spread to all because all others have sinned too not just because Adam sinned
You are guilty in God's eyes for only his or her own sin.
The death penalty is not inherited.
We are not born under the death penalty anymore than we are not born " under grace " from our converted Christian parents.
Grace has to be given to us after our own conversion it, is not passed onto us from birth because our parents were in a state of grace.

Please explain this Romans 5:12 (12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned).

 

[judge not]

Please explain this Romans 5:12 (12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned).

The first disobedience by man launched the human race on its course of habitual disobedience.

 

[Chad]

Matthew Henry Commentary

The sons of God know that their Lord is of purer eyes than to allow any thing unholy and impure to dwell with him. It is the hope of hypocrites, not of the sons of God, that makes allowance for gratifying impure desires and lusts. May we be followers of him as his dear children, thus show our sense of his unspeakable mercy, and express that obedient, grateful, humble mind which becomes us. Sin is the rejecting the Divine law. In him, that is, in Christ, was no sin.

All the sinless weaknesses that were consequences of the fall, he took; that is, all those infirmities of mind or body which subject man to suffering, and expose him to temptation. But our moral infirmities, our proneness to sin, he had not. He that abides in Christ, continues not in the practice of sin. Renouncing sin is the great proof of spiritual union with, continuance in, and saving knowledge of the Lord Christ. Beware of self-deceit. He that doeth righteousness is righteous, and to be a follower of Christ, shows an interest by faith in his obedience and sufferings. But a man cannot act like the devil, and at the same time be a disciple of Christ Jesus. Let us not serve or indulge what the Son of God came to destroy. To be born of God is to be inwardly renewed by the power of the Spirit of God. Renewing grace is an abiding principle. Religion is not an art, a matter of dexterity and skill, but a new nature. And the regenerate person cannot sin as he did before he was born of God, and as others do who are not born again. There is that light in his mind, which shows him the evil and malignity of sin. There is that bias upon his heart, which disposes him to loathe and hate sin. There is the spiritual principle that opposes sinful acts. And there is repentance for sin, if committed. It goes against him to sin with forethought. The children of God and the children of the devil have their distinct characters. The seed of the serpent are known by neglect of religion, and by their hating real Christians. He only is righteous before God, as a justified believer, who is taught and disposed to righteousness by the Holy Spirit. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil. May all professors of the gospel lay these truths to heart, and try themselves by them.

•••••

John Darby's Commentary
John 3 Entirety

Now to say that we are born of Him is to say that we are children of God. What a love is that which the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children! Therefore the world knows us not, because it knew Him not. The apostle returns here to His appearing and its effect on us. We are children of God: this is our present sure and known position; we are born of God. That which we shall be is not yet manifested; but we know that- associated with Jesus as we are in the same relationship with the Father, Himself being our life-we shall be like Him when He appears. For it is to this we are predestined, to see Him as He now is with the Father, from which the life came which was manifested in Him and imparted to us, and to appear in the same glory.

Having then the hope of seeing Him as He is, and knowing that I shall be perfectly like Him when He appears, I seek to be as like Him now as possible, since I already possess this life-He being in me, my life.

This is the measure of our practical purification. We are not pure as He is pure; but we take Christ, as He is in heaven, for the pattern and measure of our purification, we purify ourselves according to His purity, knowing that we shall be perfectly like Him when He is manifested. Before marking the contrast between the principles of the divine life and of the enemy, he sets before us the true measure of purity (he will give that of love in a moment) for the children, inasmuch as they are partakers of His nature and have the same relationship with God.

There are two remarks to be made here. First, "hope in him" does not mean in the believer; but a hope that has Christ for its object. Second, it is striking to see the way in which the apostle appears to confound God and Christ together in this epistle; and uses the word "Him" to signify Christ, when he had just been speaking of God, and vice versa. We may see the principle of this at the end of chapter 5:: "We are in him that is true, [that is to say] in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." In these few words we have the key to the epistle: Christ is the life. It is evidently the Son; but it is God Himself who is manifested, and the perfection of His nature, which is the source of life to us also, as that life was found in Christ as man. Thus I can speak of God and say, "Born of him;" but it is in Jesus that God was manifested, and from Him that I derive life; so that "Jesus Christ" and "God" are interchanged with each other. Thus "He shall appear" (chap. 2:28 ) is Christ, He is righteous; the righteous one "is born of him" But in chapter 3:1 it is " born of God," "children of God;" but the world did not know Him: here it is Christ on earth; and "when he shall appear," it is again Christ and we purify ourselves "even as He is pure." There are many other examples.

It is said of the believer, "he purifies himself:" this shews that he is not pure, as Christ is. He needed not to purify Himself. Accordingly it is not said, he is pure as Christ is pure (for in that case there would be no sin in us); but he purifies himself according to the purity of Christ as He is in heaven, having the same life as the life of Christ Himself.

Having set forth the positive aspect of christian purity, he goes on to speak of it in other points of view, as one of the characteristic proofs of the life of God in the soul.

He who commits sin (not transgresses the law, but acts lawlessly. His conduct is without the restraint, without the rule of law. He acts without curb; for sin is the acting without the curb of law or restraint of another's authority, acting from our own will. Christ came to do His Father's will, not His own. But Christ was manifested that He might take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin; so that he who commits sin acts against the object of the manifestation of Christ, and in opposition to the nature of which, if Christ is our life, we are partakers. Therefore he who abides in Christ does not practise sin; he who sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. All depends, we see, on participation in the life and nature of Christ. Let us not then deceive ourselves. He who practises righteousness is righteous, as He is righteous: for, by partaking in the life of Christ, one is before God according to the perfection of Him who is there, the head and source of that life. But we are thus as Christ before God, because He Himself is really our life. Our actual life is not the measure of our acceptance; it is Christ who is so. But Christ is our life, if we are accepted according to His excellence; for it is as living of His life that we participate in this.

But the judgment is more than negative. He who practises sin is of the devil, has morally the same nature as the devil; for he sinneth from the beginning: it is his original character as the devil. Now Christ was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil; how then can one who shares the character of this enemy of souls be with Christ?

On the other hand, he who is born of God does not practise sin. The reason is evident; he is made a partaker of the nature of God; he derives his life from Him. This principle of divine life is in him. the seed of God remains in him; he cannot sin, because he is born of God. This new nature had not in it the principle of sin, so as to commit it. How could it be that the divine nature should sin?

Having thus designated the two families, the family of God and that of the devil, the apostle adds the second mark, the absence of which is a proof that one is not of God. He had already spoken of righteousness; he adds the love of the brethren. For this is the message that they had received from Christ Himself, that they should love one another. In verse 12 he shews the connection between the two things: that hatred of a brother is fed by the sense one has that his works are good, and one's own evil. Moreover we are not to wonder that the world hates us: for we know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. If this love is an essential proof of being renewed, it is quite natural that it should not be found in the men of the world.

But, this being the case, he who does not love his brother (solemn thought!) abides in death. In addition to this, he who does not love his brother is a murderer, and a murderer has not eternal life. There is the absence of the divine nature, death; but more, the activity of the old man in the opposite nature is there, he hates, and is in spirit the activity of death-a murderer.

Further, as in the case of righteousness and of purity, we have Christ as the measure of this love. We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; we ought to lay down ours for the brethren. Now, if our brother has need, and we possess this world's good, but do not provide for his necessity, is that the divine love which made Christ lay down His life for us? It is by this real and practical love that we know we are in the truth, and that our heart is confirmed and assured before God. For if there is nothing on the conscience, we have confidence in His presence; but if our own heart condemns us, God knows yet more.

It is not here the means of being assured of our salvation, but of having confidence in the presence of God. We cannot have it with a bad conscience in the practical sense of the word, for God is always light and always holy.

We also receive all that we ask for, when we walk thus in love before Him, doing that which is pleasing in His sight; for thus walking in His presence with confidence, the heart and its desires respond to this blessed influence, being formed by the enjoyment of communion with Him in the light of His countenance. It is God who animates the heart; this life, and this divine nature, of which the epistle speaks, being in full activity and enlightened and moved by the divine presence in which it delights. Thus our requests are only for the accomplishment of desires that arise when this life, when our thoughts, are filled with the presence of God and with the communication of His nature. And He lends His power to the fulfillment of these desires, of which He is the source, and which are formed in the heart by the revelation of Himself. (Compare John 15:7)

This is indeed the position of Christ Himself when here below: only that He was perfect in it. (Compare John 8:29; 11:42 )

And here it is the commandment of God which He desires us to obey; namely, to believe on the name of His Son Jesus; and to love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Now he who keeps His commandments dwells in Him; and He dwells also in this obedient man. It will be asked whether God or Christ is here meant? The apostle, as we have seen, confounds them together in his thought. That is to say, the Holy Ghost unites them in our minds. We are in Him who is true, that is, in His Son Jesus Christ. It is Christ, who is the presentation of God to men in life in man; and to the believer He is the communication of that life, so that God too dwells in him, in the revelation, in its divine excellence and perfection, of the nature which the believer shares in the power of the Holy Ghost who dwells in him, so that love is alike enjoyed and exercised.

But what marvelous grace to have received a life, a nature, by which we are enabled to enjoy God Himself, who dwells in us, and by which, since it is in Christ, we are in fact in the enjoyment of this communion, this relationship with God! He who has the Son has life; but God then dwells in him as the portion, as well as the source of this life; and he who has the Son has the Father.

What marvelous links of vital and living enjoyment through the communication of the divine nature of Him who is its source; and that according to its perfection in Christ! Such is the Christian according to grace. Therefore also he is obedient, because this life in the man Christ (and it is thus that it becomes ours) was obedience itself, the true relationship of man to God.

Practical righteousness, then, is a proof that we are born of Him who, in His nature, is its source. In presence also of the world's hatred, we know that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren. Thus, having a good conscience, we have confidence in God, and we receive from Him whatsoever we ask, walking in obedience and in a way that is pleasing to Him. Thus walking, we dwell in Him and He in us.

A third proof of our christian privileges arises here. The Spirit whom He has given us is the proof that He Himself dwells in us, the manifestation of the presence of God in us. He does not here add that we abide in Him, because the subject here is the manifestation of the presence of God. The presence of the Spirit demonstrates it. But in abiding in Him there is, as we shall see farther on, the enjoyment of that which He is, and consequently moral communion with His nature. He who obeys enjoys this also, as we have seen. Here the presence of the Holy Ghost in us is spoken of as demonstration of one part only of this truth, namely, that God is in us. But the presence of God in us according to grace, and according to the power of the Spirit, involves also communion with that nature; we dwell also in Him from whom we derive this grace, and all the spiritual forms of that nature, in communion and practical life. It is in verses 12 and 16 of chapter 4. that our apostle speaks of this.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

I read your previous post (# 40) and you seem to be promoting a theology, rather than what
the scripture reveals in Paul's letter to the Romans. Also Judge not, could you reduce the
number of points that you state in each post, as the length of the reply in response. Is just
too long to comfortably read and understand. Look at the size of this post given that I am
only replying to one of your statements, Judge Not. You said;


The scripture indicates repeatedly that it is the very blood of Christ, that is the primary factor in
the reconciliation of mankind to God.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath
of God through Him.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to
the riches of His grace

1 Corinthians 11:25
In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood".

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:20
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place
once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:14
how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish
to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the
Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified,

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the
blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

1 John 1:7
but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the
earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood

Revelation 5:9
...for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and
people and nation.

All your scripture generally applies to redemption which means deliverance from death by means of a very high price in Christian circles.- 1Cor:20
and 1 Peter 1:18-19
Redemption cancels out our sins but does not give us eternal life.. It clears our slate clean.Rev 1:5
Jesus was sacrificed once for the remission of our sins and on His return, the second coming He brings salvation with Him. Hebrews 9:28
The purpose of His death on the cross was only to atone for our sins.He was our sacrificial lamb.
When we repent and receive baptism and the laying on of hands for God;s Holy spirit we are then justified in the sight of God.
We then can only be saved by the life of Christ. Not only does Jesus, through the power of God's HS, begin to live His life within us 1 John 5: 11-12
but he also becomes our daily High Priest to make intercession for us.
If Jesus had not died on the cross there would be no redemption for us.
and if Jesus did not resurrect and live again there would be no salvation for us.
All things are possible with Christ living in us - Philippians 2: 12-13

 

[DHC]

All your scripture generally applies to redemption which means deliverance from death by means of a very high price in Christian circles.- 1Cor:20
and 1 Peter 1:18-19
Redemption cancels out our sins but does not give us eternal life.. It clears our slate clean.Rev 1:5
Jesus was sacrificed once for the remission of our sins and on His return, the second coming He brings salvation with Him. Hebrews 9:28
The purpose of His death on the cross was only to atone for our sins.He was our sacrificial lamb.
When we repent and receive baptism and the laying on of hands for God;s Holy spirit we are then justified in the sight of God.
We then can only be saved by the life of Christ. Not only does Jesus, through the power of God's HS, begin to live His life within us 1 John 5: 11-12
but he also becomes our daily High Priest to make intercession for us.
If Jesus had not died on the cross there would be no redemption for us.
and if Jesus did not resurrect and live again there would be no salvation for us.
All things are possible with Christ living in us - Philippians 2: 12-13

Hello Judge not.

You stated the following in your last post.

Redemption cancels out our sins but does not give us eternal life.. It clears our slate clean.Rev 1:5

Your reply Judge not, is impossible to reconcile with the revelation of the scripture.

The meaning of redemption is exactly the same meaning as salvation, Judge not.
I have an example of the usage of the word 'redemption' in the verse below.

Luke 21
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption is drawing near.

In the passage above 'redemption' means salvation, what else can it possibly mean?

Now read the following verse Judge not.

Ephesians 1
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation,
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is
given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession,
to the praise of His glory.

Redemption is mentioned above and is identical to the word 'salvation'. Pay particular attention
to these words, 'you were sealed in Him'. This means that our deliverance, redemption, salvation
is sealed, and this is by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the confirmation of our salvation,
deliverance, redemption. A 'pledge' in the law means 'a thing that is given as security for the
fulfillment of a contract'. The Holy Spirit is our guarantee of our inheritance in our contract
with God.

Synonyms for the word 'redemption' are salvation, release, rescue, liberation, ransom,
emancipation, deliverance, offering redemption from our sins. (Collins dictionary)

Redemption means salvation, which means also we have eternal life, Judge not.

Please quote the source your using for the definition of 'redemption'.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

You stated the following in your last post.

Your reply Judge not, is impossible to reconcile with the revelation of the scripture.

The meaning of redemption is exactly the same meaning as salvation, Judge not.
I have an example of the usage of the word 'redemption' in the verse below.

Luke 21
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads,
because your redemption is drawing near.

In the passage above 'redemption' means salvation, what else can it possibly mean?

Now read the following verse Judge not.

Ephesians 1
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation,
having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is
given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession,
to the praise of His glory.

Redemption is mentioned above and is identical to the word 'salvation'. Pay particular attention
to these words, 'you were sealed in Him'. This means that our deliverance, redemption, salvation
is sealed, and this is by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the confirmation of our salvation,
deliverance, redemption. A 'pledge' in the law means 'a thing that is given as security for the
fulfillment of a contract'. The Holy Spirit is our guarantee of our inheritance in our contract
with God.

Synonyms for the word 'redemption' are salvation, release, rescue, liberation, ransom,
emancipation, deliverance, offering redemption from our sins. (Collins dictionary)

Redemption means salvation, which means also we have eternal life, Judge not.

Please quote the source your using for the definition of 'redemption'.

there is more to it than a matter of semantics- the dictionary I have in front of me says redeem or redemption is defined " pay off, make good-in Christianity, set free from the consequences of sin - it does not mention salvation or eternal life - Gage Canadian Dictionary
To buy back something like redeeming at a pawnbrokers store.as an example.
as before we have redemption through His blood - Col 1:14
Sin maintains a claim over us until God redeems us through and by His Son's sacrifice.
We have redemption now-but we do not have eternal life yet
Salvation is a future event - Matt 24:13 " he that endures to the end, shall be saved "
Our salvation only comes at the second coming of Christ - Heb 9:28
We have assurance and sealed in but no guarantee - Luke 8:13, 1 Cor 9:27, 1 Cor 15:2
We are in the process of being saved but we are not quite there yet-that happens when Jesus returns.

 

[james1523]

Usually the terms "the cross" or the "blood of Christ" is used in general sense to mean everything Christ did for us, which includes his human living, resurrection and ascension.
Whilst it is strictly true that the blood only accomplishes redemption and does not itself give life, without the blood the eternal life would not be possible.
Strictly speaking, Christ's death on the cross, His blood, accomplished our redemption and forgiveness of sins by which we are saved from hellfire, and Christ's resurrection gave us eternal life by which we may live forever. John 11:25 shows that life comes from resurrection, and 1 Peter 3:21 shows how baptism and resurrection saves us.

 

[DHC]

there is more to it than a matter of semantics- the dictionary I have in front of me says redeem or redemption is defined " pay off, make good-in Christianity, set free from the consequences of sin - it does not mention salvation or eternal life - Gage Canadian Dictionary
To buy back something like redeeming at a pawnbrokers store.as an example.
as before we have redemption through His blood - Col 1:14
Sin maintains a claim over us until God redeems us through and by His Son's sacrifice.
We have redemption now-but we do not have eternal life yet
Salvation is a future event - Matt 24:13 " he that endures to the end, shall be saved "
Our salvation only comes at the second coming of Christ - Heb 9:28
We have assurance and sealed in but no guarantee - Luke 8:13, 1 Cor 9:27, 1 Cor 15:2
We are in the process of being saved but we are not quite there yet-that happens when Jesus returns.

Hello Judge not.

In order to keep the posts as brief as possible I will only reply to just two of your claims.

1. Sin maintains a claim over us until God redeems us through and by His Son's sacrifice.
2. We have assurance and sealed in but no guarantee

Reply to your first point.

Your answer Judge not, is exactly the answer I would expect from some theological
text book. We are not as Christians under the domain of satan or under the control
of sin. We have been set free from the domination of sin, here have a read what Paul
states four times alone just in Romans.

Romans 6:7
...for he who has died is freed from sin.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit,
resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Sin has no claim over you in Christ, you are not under the dominion of sin in Christ.

Why do you say 'sin maintains a claim over us' when sin does not have any claim over us.

Paul has told you four times Judge not, that sin has no jurisdiction over you?

Reply to your second point, Judge not.

You claimed that there is no guarantee of salvation in Christ.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in
Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

God's written testimony from His own mouth, is all the proof I need of the divine guarantee
of salvation. God has told you that if you believe in His Son you have eternal life!

God did not say you may be saved if you believe in Jesus Christ, but it's really up to you.

God is telling you in no uncertain language that you have eternal life if you believe in His Son.

This is what the Gospel is all about Judge not. God's declaration to mankind is that the only
name under heaven by which we can be saved is Jesus Christ. Not Jesus plus your own works
of obedience. Not Jesus plus obedience to the law. Not Jesus plus anything. Because the
Gospel only consists of the belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

All other considerations, all other teaching such as holiness and godliness is based on
top of the foundation stone. You have been taught the reverse Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Works, works, and more legal works and only then when you have endured long enough,
then and only then are you worthy of eternal life. This is nothing more than a confused
alternative Gospel, Judge not.

I would love to quote the numerous verses that state that you are saved because you
believe in Jesus Christ. Alas, space is a limited commodity.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

In order to keep the posts as brief as possible I will only reply to just two of your claims.

Reply to your first point.

Your answer Judge not, is exactly the answer I would expect from some theological
text book. We are not as Christians under the domain of satan or under the control
of sin. We have been set free from the domination of sin, here have a read what Paul
states four times alone just in Romans.

Romans 6:7
...for he who has died is freed from sin.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 6:18
and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit,
resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Sin has no claim over you in Christ, you are not under the dominion of sin in Christ.

Why do you say 'sin maintains a claim over us' when sin does not have any claim over us.

Paul has told you four times Judge not, that sin has no jurisdiction over you?

Reply to your second point, Judge not.

You claimed that there is no guarantee of salvation in Christ.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in
Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

God's written testimony from His own mouth, is all the proof I need of the divine guarantee
of salvation. God has told you that if you believe in His Son you have eternal life!

God did not say you may be saved if you believe in Jesus Christ, but it's really up to you.

God is telling you in no uncertain language that you have eternal life if you believe in His Son.

This is what the Gospel is all about Judge not. God's declaration to mankind is that the only
name under heaven by which we can be saved is Jesus Christ. Not Jesus plus your own works
of obedience. Not Jesus plus obedience to the law. Not Jesus plus anything. Because the
Gospel only consists of the belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

All other considerations, all other teaching such as holiness and godliness is based on
top of the foundation stone. You have been taught the reverse Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Works, works, and more legal works and only then when you have endured long enough,
then and only then are you worthy of eternal life. This is nothing more than a confused
alternative Gospel, Judge not.

I would love to quote the numerous verses that state that you are saved because you
believe in Jesus Christ. Alas, space is a limited commodity.

It's true that God does not want anyone to perish.
But in the next verse John 3:17 -." but that the world through Him MIGHT be saved." that's not a total guarantee.
These are not my claims, they can all be found in your Bible.
On the positive side there are more promises of salvation than there are warnings about losing it.
Why would Christ urge us to overcome if there is nothing further we have to do once we have accepted Him as our Savior and are now saved.- Rev 2:26,27
eternal life is an inheritance that we haven't received yet.
" I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ." - Paul did not consider himself saved in his lifetime.
what are all these scriptures about future happenings doing in the Bible if we may be already saved merely by belief, and profession of Christ?
in Romans 6:22 - freed from sin-meaning free from the penalty of the eternal death consequence-and the OUTCOME-meaning the end result-eternal life. the outcome
of something is at the conclusion of an endeavor or struggle- sound familiar ?
We are not spirit beings yet.
Christians claiming to be saved now are a little misguided, even though their hearts are on the right track, they have not reached their destination at the present time.

 

[DHC]

It's true that God does not want anyone to perish.
But in the next verse John 3:17 -." but that the world through Him MIGHT be saved." that's not a total guarantee.
These are not my claims, they can all be found in your Bible.
On the positive side there are more promises of salvation than there are warnings about losing it.
Why would Christ urge us to overcome if there is nothing further we have to do once we have accepted Him as our Savior and are now saved.- Rev 2:26,27
eternal life is an inheritance that we haven't received yet.
" I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ." - Paul did not consider himself saved in his lifetime.
what are all these scriptures about future happenings doing in the Bible if we may be already saved merely by belief, and profession of Christ?
in Romans 6:22 - freed from sin-meaning free from the penalty of the eternal death consequence-and the OUTCOME-meaning the end result-eternal life. the outcome
of something is at the conclusion of an endeavor or struggle- sound familiar ?
We are not spirit beings yet.
Christians claiming to be saved now are a little misguided, even though their hearts are on the right track, they have not reached their destination at the present time.

Hello Judge not.

I will reply to all your statements in your previous post but at the moment I am curious.
How do you interpret the verses below from John's letter, given your doctrine that claims,

eternal life is an inheritance that we haven't received yet.

1 John 5
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar,
because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has
given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not
have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have
eternal life.

God has given us eternal life and this eternal life is in His Son. He who has the Son has
eternal life, believing in the Son is eternal life. John wrote the verses above so that you
can know, Judgenot, that you already have the eternal life because you have the Son!

If you disagree with the verses above, then by all means explain them to me.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

I will reply to all your statements in your previous post but at the moment I am curious.
How do you interpret the verses below from John's letter, given your doctrine that claims,

1 John 5
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar,
because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has
given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not
have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have
eternal life.

God has given us eternal life and this eternal life is in His Son. He who has the Son has
eternal life, believing in the Son is eternal life. John wrote the verses above so that you
can know, Judgenot, that you already have the eternal life because you have the Son!

If you disagree with the verses above, then by all means explain them to me.

I agree with the premise we have eternal life available to us. and most scriptures shows it is to be inherited at the end time if we are still in Christ. 1 Cor 15:49-50
Hebrews 9:15 -those that are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance - eternal life
1 Peter 1:4, Rev 21:7 -He who overcomes shall inherit all things
Paul tell us in Titus 3:7 -we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
James tells us also in chapter 2:5 of his epistle that we are heirs of the Kingdom which has been promised to us.

In contrast those who reject eternal life will inherit eternal death -Rom 6:23

You have to look at all scripture to understand the time frame of the promises made to us as heirs in the Kingdom of God.

If we have Jesus in us we have the promise of eternal life

right now you are still a human being in Christ but you will have eternal life once you are a spiritual being.

Our inheritance is our reward

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

I will reply to all your statements in your previous post but at the moment I am curious.
How do you interpret the verses below from John's letter, given your doctrine that claims,

1 John 5
10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar,
because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11 And the testimony is this, that God has
given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not
have the life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have
eternal life.

God has given us eternal life and this eternal life is in His Son. He who has the Son has
eternal life, believing in the Son is eternal life. John wrote the verses above so that you
can know, Judgenot, that you already have the eternal life because you have the Son!

If you disagree with the verses above, then by all means explain them to me.

and here is another important verse regarding inheriting eternal life:
Matt 19:29 - " ....... and shall inherit everlasting life "

 

[DHC]

I agree with the premise we have eternal life available to us. and most scriptures shows it is to be inherited at the end time if we are still in Christ. 1 Cor 15:49-50
Hebrews 9:15 -those that are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance - eternal life
1 Peter 1:4, Rev 21:7 -He who overcomes shall inherit all things
Paul tell us in Titus 3:7 -we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
James tells us also in chapter 2:5 of his epistle that we are heirs of the Kingdom which has been promised to us.

In contrast those who reject eternal life will inherit eternal death -Rom 6:23

You have to look at all scripture to understand the time frame of the promises made to us as heirs in the Kingdom of God.

If we have Jesus in us we have the promise of eternal life

right now you are still a human being in Christ but you will have eternal life once you are a spiritual being.

Our inheritance is our reward

Hello Judge not.

There is a distinct difference in how we understand the New Testament revelation. For you made the following
statement regarding eternal life.

I agree with the premise we have eternal life available to us. and most scriptures shows it is to be inherited at
the end time if we are still in Christ. 1 Cor 15:49-50

Your understanding of 'salvation', is that it is available to us but only to those who overcome. You said that salvation
is a future promise but once again conditional on your behavioral response. In effect Judge not, your understanding
of salvation in the N.T, is that it is future and not a present reality. Salvation is only available to those who overcome
in the end.

Is this a sufficient summary of your theology Judge not, one must overcome sin or else?

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

There is a distinct difference in how we understand the New Testament revelation. For you made the following
statement regarding eternal life.

Your understanding of 'salvation', is that it is available to us but only to those who overcome. You said that salvation
is a future promise but once again conditional on your behavioral response. In effect Judge not, your understanding
of salvation in the N.T, is that it is future and not a present reality. Salvation is only available to those who overcome
in the end.

Is this a sufficient summary of your theology Judge not, one must overcome sin or else?

My summary is Salvation is the means by which God, through Jesus Christ, saves man from the penalty of sin and give
him eternal life. This process includes one's calling, repentance, baptism, justification, receiving of the Holy Spirit, a life of faith and obedience,
and final birth into God's Kingdom as a spirit being after the second coming of Christ. Although Salvation is a freely given gift from God through grace
we will receive our ultimate reward according to our works. Matthew 16;27

there has been a lot of scripture presented that shows the big picture God has planned for mankind.
If we take one or two verses and say see there we don't have to do anything. Just believing in Jesus and having faith is enough.
But then what does " Faith without works is dead ' mean? One of the basic elements of faith other than trust, confidence, and belief is action.
Obedience to the Law of God prepares us for an eternal spiritual life in the family of God.
A summary , or as some say, in a nutshell, doesn't do justice to the volumes of directives and principles revealed in the Bible pertaining to our Salvation.

 

[DHC]

My summary is Salvation is the means by which God, through Jesus Christ, saves man from the penalty of sin and give
him eternal life. This process includes one's calling, repentance, baptism, justification, receiving of the Holy Spirit, a life of faith and obedience,
and final birth into God's Kingdom as a spirit being after the second coming of Christ. Although Salvation is a freely given gift from God through grace
we will receive our ultimate reward according to our works. Matthew 16;27

there has been a lot of scripture presented that shows the big picture God has planned for mankind.
If we take one or two verses and say see there we don't have to do anything. Just believing in Jesus and having faith is enough.
But then what does " Faith without works is dead ' mean? One of the basic elements of faith other than trust, confidence, and belief is action.
Obedience to the Law of God prepares us for an eternal spiritual life in the family of God.
A summary , or as some say, in a nutshell, doesn't do justice to the volumes of directives and principles revealed in the Bible pertaining to our Salvation.

Hello Judge not.

My summary is Salvation is the means by which God, through Jesus Christ, saves man from the
penalty of sin and give him eternal life.

Correct Judge not and that is the revelation we have been presented with in Christ Jesus.

This process includes one's calling, repentance, baptism, justification, receiving of the Holy Spirit,
a life of faith and obedience, and final birth into God's Kingdom as a spirit being after the second
coming of Christ. Although Salvation is a freely given gift from God through grace we will receive
our ultimate reward according to our works. Matthew 16, 27

Still correct Judge not up to a point that is, I applaud your recognition of 'a free gift from God
through Grace'. Though you did err in your statement 'final birth into God's kingdom'. We are
already in God's kingdom in Christ. Citizenship in the heavenly domain has already been
established by Christ.

Here are the two verses that state that we are already in God's kingdom.

Colossians 1
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His
beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

We have been transferred already.

Ephesians 2
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

We are already up there Judge not.

Ephesians 2
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no
longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household.

In Christ you are saved and eternal, your citizenship is already in the heavenly realms.
God has done this for you in Christ, you are a new creation in Christ already.

Surely Judge not, you realize that in Christ you are already in God's household?

What Judge not you have not died to sin in Christ yet?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was
raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

You have a new life now so walk in that new life and rejoice.

Once again Judge not, this citizenship is a gift, it is free, we do not earn our citizenship.

there has been a lot of scripture presented that shows the big picture God has planned for mankind.
If we take one or two verses and say see there we don't have to do anything. Just believing in Jesus
and having faith is enough.

This is the point of departure Judge not, our paths veer on this crucial aspect of the Gospel.
Once again salvation is a free gift by Grace given to us in Christ. In Christ you are secure
and have been given eternal life already, God guarantees your redemption because He gave
you the Holy Spirit.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life,
and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Believing the Gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit is eternal life. Your obedience or even your
works qualify no one for citizenship in heaven. I repeat that Christ is the one who grants the
new citizenship and that is a free gift. Works are a necessary obligation but the qualification
for citizenship is only through Christ.

Faith without works is dead, yes, but these works are the emulation powered by the Holy Spirit
of the life of Jesus Christ. That is why we have the Holy Spirit in order to produce the fruit and
the good works. There is still no input from us as the Holy Spirit is the driving force within.


We do not try and obey the law, rather we must deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow
Jesus. We died with Christ so that we will be resurrected, we died with Christ when we were baptized.
We are completely dead to sin, the world and the devil himself. If you have not died then you are
not free of sin. If you are not in Christ then you are not reconciled to God. A Christian cannot
sin because a Christian is reconciled to Christ.

The purpose of the written law was to make one aware of sin. To make one aware that righteousness
is not from us because all we do is disobey. Christ overcame and we overcome only in Christ.

Now for your earlier mention of 'overcome' and you may only ever overcome as a result of your faith.

1 John 5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome
the world our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God!!!

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

Correct Judge not and that is the revelation we have been presented with in Christ Jesus.

Still correct Judge not up to a point that is, I applaud your recognition of 'a free gift from God
through Grace'. Though you did err in your statement 'final birth into God's kingdom'. We are
already in God's kingdom in Christ. Citizenship in the heavenly domain has already been
established by Christ.

Here are the two verses that state that we are already in God's kingdom.

Colossians 1
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His
beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

We have been transferred already.

Ephesians 2
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

We are already up there Judge not.

Ephesians 2
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no
longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household.

In Christ you are saved and eternal, your citizenship is already in the heavenly realms.
God has done this for you in Christ, you are a new creation in Christ already.

Surely Judge not, you realize that in Christ you are already in God's household?

What Judge not you have not died to sin in Christ yet?

Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was
raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

You have a new life now so walk in that new life and rejoice.

Once again Judge not, this citizenship is a gift, it is free, we do not earn our citizenship.

This is the point of departure Judge not, our paths veer on this crucial aspect of the Gospel.
Once again salvation is a free gift by Grace given to us in Christ. In Christ you are secure
and have been given eternal life already, God guarantees your redemption because He gave
you the Holy Spirit.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life,
and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Believing the Gospel and receiving the Holy Spirit is eternal life. Your obedience or even your
works qualify no one for citizenship in heaven. I repeat that Christ is the one who grants the
new citizenship and that is a free gift. Works are a necessary obligation but the qualification
for citizenship is only through Christ.

Faith without works is dead, yes, but these works are the emulation powered by the Holy Spirit
of the life of Jesus Christ. That is why we have the Holy Spirit in order to produce the fruit and
the good works. There is still no input from us as the Holy Spirit is the driving force within.


We do not try and obey the law, rather we must deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow
Jesus. We died with Christ so that we will be resurrected, we died with Christ when we were baptized.
We are completely dead to sin, the world and the devil himself. If you have not died then you are
not free of sin. If you are not in Christ then you are not reconciled to God. A Christian cannot
sin because a Christian is reconciled to Christ.

The purpose of the written law was to make one aware of sin. To make one aware that righteousness
is not from us because all we do is disobey. Christ overcame and we overcome only in Christ.

Now for your earlier mention of 'overcome' and you may only ever overcome as a result of your faith.

1 John 5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome
the world our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God!!!

This is a lot to cover and since I'm not the best typist in the world how about dealing with one issue or quote at a time.

Col 1:13 - the meaning of the word Kingdom in this verse from the Greek word - basileia - which denotes power, rule, or dominion.
This verse shows God's royal power begins in the life of the Christian at conversion.It does not refer to a territory but rather to the
authority or rule of a King-the verse means that a Christian is no longer under the dominion of evil (darkness ) but under the benevolent
rule of God's Son.
We cannot be in the Kingdom of God now because 1 Cor 15:50 tells us flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Good night

 

[DHC]

This is a lot to cover and since I'm not the best typist in the world how about dealing with one issue or quote at a time.

Col 1:13 - the meaning of the word Kingdom in this verse from the Greek word - basileia - which denotes power, rule, or dominion.
This verse shows God's royal power begins in the life of the Christian at conversion.It does not refer to a territory but rather to the
authority or rule of a King-the verse means that a Christian is no longer under the dominion of evil (darkness ) but under the benevolent
rule of God's Son.
We cannot be in the Kingdom of God now because 1 Cor 15:50 tells us flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

Good night

Hello Judge not.

Col 1:13 - the meaning of the word Kingdom in this verse from the Greek word - basileia - which denotes power, rule, or dominion. This verse shows God's royal power begins in the life of the Christian at conversion.It does not refer to a territory but rather to the authority or rule of a King-the verse means that a Christian is no longer under the dominion of evil (darkness ) but under the benevolent rule of God's Son.

The Koine Greek word 'basileia' is translated in the N.T over 160 times as 'kingdom'.

The Koine Greek word 'basileia' is translated only once as 'reign', which somewhat aligns
with your definition.

The translation of the Greek word 'basileia' does not reduce to two competing definitions.
One definition being the 'rule or power of a king' and another being 'kingdom'. A translation
of any word in a Biblical text or otherwise, conforms to the simple definition of any word in
the original language.

'kingdom' in our English language means: country, state, or territory ruled by some authority.
In the Biblical text 'basileia' translates to kingdom, the defined domain of any ruling authority.
Kings or ruling parties come and go but the kingdom (basileia), empire or state, remains the same.

Luke 4:5
And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms (basileia) of the world in a moment of time.

One word is used above and the translators used 'kingdom', they did not use 'power' or 'rule'.

'Basileia' means 'kingdom' or 'empire' in the Koine Greek literature outside of the Bible.

'Basileia Romaion', the Greek name for the Byzantine Empire, translated as 'Empire of the Romans'
(wikipedia)

To push a theological meaning onto the word 'basileia' and then to translate it so. Would be to
corrupt the simple meaning of the word in the every day language at the time of Christ. Bible
translators do not deviate from the simple definitions of the Greek words.

You have been transferred from one kingdom to another kingdom, from one domain to another.
You are a new, spiritual creation in Christ, no longer a carnal, flesh and blood descendant of
Adam. Old things have passed away Judgenot, you are now a saint in the kingdom of God.