Pentecostalism

[B-A-C]

B A C Can you give me a verse that says Stephen did miracles or was an Apostle? I know it is easy to get things a little confused, and I do at times, perhaps I am mistakes?

Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

 

[B-A-C]

I can see this thread wobbling off topic

It seems to happen. To tie this back to Pentecostalism, the point here is, it wasn't only the (12) apostles who did many of
the things emphasized by Pentecostals.

 

[Hashe]

I guess I have a couple of questions here.
Is the laying on of hands from someone who has already received it required?

Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

Also does everyone receive the Holy Spirit this way, or was this simply because the Holy Spirit wasn't given to most believers before this time?
John 7:39; Heb 9:8; John 16:7;

It seems some believers weren't aware of this at the time.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

The other thing I notice here, in both the examples you gave.
Acts 19:3; And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Matt 28:19;

Is being "baptized in the name of Jesus" the same as water baptism? (I would think John's baptism would be water baptism)
Or is this yet another baptism?
The baptism in water? The baptism of Jesus? The baptism of the Holy Spirit?
If so, is being baptized in the name of Jesus, and in water, a requirement for receiving the Holy Spirit?

The laying of hands on someone was not necessary to receive the Spirit. See Acts 10:44

Pentecostals believe in a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit at salvation and the empowerment of the Holy Spirit for ministry (Which they refer to as the baptism of the Holy Spirit). This deals with the scriptures that say we receive the Spirit at salvation, as well as the phenomenon of a different 'baptism' of the Holy Spirit after conversion. This is also consistent with Jesus who had the spirit from childhood and yet received the Spirit at his Baptism.

 

[B-A-C]

The laying of hands on someone was not necessary to receive the Spirit. See Acts 10:44 .

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

It seems to me, all we have to do is ask?

 

[Hashe]

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

It seems to me, all we have to do is ask?

Perhaps.
Cornelius didn't ask! (Acts 10)
And as stated earlier Pentecostals believe in a difference between having the HS and an empowerment of the HS. Just ask for having the HS, means being saved.

 

[B-A-C]

And as stated earlier Pentecostals believe in a difference between having the HS and an empowerment of the HS. Just ask for having the HS, means being saved.

Are there scriptures to support this being two different things? It seems when the people of the upper room ( Acts 2; ) received the Spirit, they could immediately speak in tongues (fire appears above their heads, rushing wind, etc...). It doesn't seem they had to wait for another event. This also seems to be the case of the 12 men in Acts 19:2-7; Thy didn't have the Holy Spirit, then when they receive it, they immediately are able to speak in tongues. It doesn't seem they had to wait for a separate event.
Also your example of Acts 10:44-46; It appears that Cornelius did not have the Holy Spirit before this event.

 

[Hashe]

Yes there are scriptures that support this. I posted them in Post #12 (which you liked!)

 

[B-A-C]

Yes there are scriptures that support this. I posted them in Post #12 (which you liked!)

I liked that post because of your quote.

In my experience more and more Pentecostals are turning away from the believe that speaking in tongues is the only evidence of being baptized in the spirit.

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. Are you saying that Salvation and the Holy Spirit are two different events ( I could agree with this ).
Or are you saying the filling of the Holy Spirit, and the empowering of the Holy Spirit are two different events? All the verses you gave in message #12 are about
the initial filling.

 

[james1523]

John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes.

The Spirit, like the wind, may come anytime, anywhere, on any person. There is no rule about when the Spirit should come upon a person.

 

[Hashe]

In the Pentecostal understanding:
- One event is Salvation. This is involves receiving the Holy Spirit.
- The second event is the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

The language gets confusing because different authors use different language to describe things.

In the verses I gave you, we have people who are first saved, then later receive the empowering of the spirit (although Luke doesn't use that language).
For example in 8:14 the samaritans 'receive the word of God' = being saved. Then in 8:17 after the apostles come to them they 'receive the Holy Spirit' (are empowered by the HS).
Jesus at his baptism receives the empowering of the Holy Spirit. The assumption being he had the spirit (being God!) from conception.

 

[B-A-C]

In the verses I gave you, we have people who are first saved, then later receive the empowering of the spirit (although Luke doesn't use that language).
For example in 8:14 the samaritans 'receive the word of God' = being saved. Then in 8:17 after the apostles come to them they 'receive the Holy Spirit' (are empowered by the HS).
Jesus at his baptism receives the empowering of the Holy Spirit. The assumption being he had the spirit (being God!) from conception.

I guess the question I would ask here is... up until this time. Could anyone receive the Holy Spirit?

John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

It has been my thought, that those receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time in Acts, received it after they were saved, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come when they were initially saved.

 

[Hashe]

I guess the question I would ask here is... up until this time. Could anyone receive the Holy Spirit?

John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

It has been my thought, that those receiving the Holy Spirit for the first time in Acts, received it after they were saved, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come when they were initially saved.

While this might be true in Acts 2, once the Spirit comes, the Spirit is in the world right?
So what about Paul? What about the Samaritans Christians? What about those in Corinth? The Spirit was already 'in the world' when they were saved.

 

[B-A-C]

While this might be true in Acts 2; once the Spirit comes, the Spirit is in the world right?
So what about Paul? What about the Samaritans Christians? What about those in Corinth? The Spirit was already 'in the world' when they were saved.

I believe that salvation and filling of the Holy Spirit are two different events, but my question was is filling with the Holy Spirit and being "baptized" in the Holy Spirit two different events?