Israel and Jew?

[Bambi]

What does the Bible say about Israel and the term Jew? Who is Israel? Who is a Jew? Is there only one meaning or are there more?

 

[DHC]

What does the Bible say about Israel and the term Jew? Who is Israel? Who is a Jew? Is there only one meaning or are there more?

Hello Bambi.

Who is a Jew?

What better source than a Jewish internet site.

Source: Judaism 101.

The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" (in Hebrew, "Ivri") is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13).
The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham's ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word "eyver,"
which means "the other side," referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually.


Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.
The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.


Originally, the term Yehudi referred specifically to members of the tribe of Judah, as distinguished from the other tribes of Israel. However, after the death of King Solomon, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah and the kingdom of Israel (I Kings 12; II Chronicles 10). After that time, the word Yehudi could properly be used to describe anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, as well as scattered settlements from other tribes. The most obvious biblical example of this usage is in Esther 2:5, where Mordecai is referred to as both a Yehudi and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
In the 6th century B.C.E., the kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes were exiled from the land (II Kings 17), leaving only the tribes in the kingdom of Judah remaining to carry on Abraham's heritage. These people of the kingdom of Judah were generally known to themselves and to other nations as Yehudim (Jews), and that name continues to be used today.


In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it, and is therefore used throughout this site.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Bambi.

Who is a Jew?

What better source than a Jewish internet site.

Source: Judaism 101.

The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" (in Hebrew, "Ivri") is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13).
The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham's ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word "eyver,"
which means "the other side," referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually.


Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.
The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.


Originally, the term Yehudi referred specifically to members of the tribe of Judah, as distinguished from the other tribes of Israel. However, after the death of King Solomon, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah and the kingdom of Israel (I Kings 12; II Chronicles 10). After that time, the word Yehudi could properly be used to describe anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, as well as scattered settlements from other tribes. The most obvious biblical example of this usage is in Esther 2:5, where Mordecai is referred to as both a Yehudi and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
In the 6th century B.C.E., the kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes were exiled from the land (II Kings 17), leaving only the tribes in the kingdom of Judah remaining to carry on Abraham's heritage. These people of the kingdom of Judah were generally known to themselves and to other nations as Yehudim (Jews), and that name continues to be used today.


In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it, and is therefore used throughout this site.

OK what about the New Testament definition of what a Jew is and what is Israel?

 

[DHC]

OK what about the New Testament definition of what a Jew is and what is Israel?

Hello Bambi.

The following verses would most accurately describe an Israelite.

Romans 9
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and
the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all,
God blessed forever. Amen.

Within the New Testament it is easier to understand that a Jew is simply a member of the
Mt Sinai covenant. Once a person understands who the specific people of the Mosaic covenant
are, then the New Testament narrative is fairly straight forward.

Isolating and understanding the different covenants is an essential part of the progressive revelation
of God's plan for humanity.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Bambi.

The following verses would most accurately describe an Israelite.

Romans 9
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and
the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all,
God blessed forever. Amen.

Within the New Testament it is easier to understand that a Jew is simply a member of the
Mt Sinai covenant. Once a person understands who the specific people of the Mosaic covenant
are, then the New Testament narrative is fairly straight forward.

Isolating and understanding the different covenants is an essential part of the progressive revelation
of God's plan for humanity.

There are other verses in the new Testament that state what a Jew is and what is Israel. Romans chapter 2 identifies that a Jew is one who is circumcised in the heart not one who circumcised in the flesh. Which means you can be a Gentile and be a Jew.

Romans chapter 9 indicates that just because you are a descendent of Abraham doesn't mean you are Israel. Spiritual descendants are Israel . Gal 3

 

[DHC]

There are other verses in the new Testament that state what a Jew is and what is Israel. Romans chapter 2 identifies that a Jew is one who is circumcised in the heart not one who circumcised in the flesh. Which means you can be a Gentile and be a Jew.

Romans chapter 9 indicates that just because you are a descendent of Abraham doesn't mean you are Israel. Spiritual descendants are Israel . Gal 3

Hello Bambi.

Yes to your last post and I fully agree with what you are saying.

Care needs to be exercised when travelling through a letter such as Romans
which you quoted from. If due diligence in the reading of the letter to the Romans
is disregarded then we have the groundwork for an array of theologies.

There are two types of Israelites, one by birth and the other via a spiritual rebirth.

The covenant that God established at Mt Sinai with the genetic Israelites (Exodus 20) is the
one that is evident in the fabric of the letters such as Romans, Galatians, etc. You may have noticed
that Paul's letter to the Romans is in fact a dialogue written about a specific topic. This topic is
why the genetic Israelites did not achieve the righteousness of God through legal obedience.

Romans 10
10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them (physical Israel) is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them (physical Israel) that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject
themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

It is easy to summarize the letter to the Romans under this one topic. In other words,
Hey Paul, you are a Hebrew by birth, Jesus was a Hebrew also. So you tell me how
the chosen people, the Israelites themselves rejected their own messiah?

Then we also have the spiritual, New Covenant Israelites which you are alluding to.

One group is of the flesh and the other group is of the spirit.

We need to seperate the two distinct groups otherwise the New Testament becomes
rather confusing.

 

[Bambi]

We need to seperate the two distinct groups otherwise the New Testament becomes
rather confusing.

How and why do we need to separate the two?

 

[DHC]

How and why do we need to separate the two?

Hello Bambi.

We do not have to seperate the two groups, Paul does that for us Bambi.

If you read Paul's letter to the Romans, Paul goes to great length to explain
why physical Israel was hardened to God's reconciliation in Jesus Christ.

Romans 11
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery,
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening
has happened to (physical) Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

So we have the physical Israelites who crucified the Christ and opposed Paul.

We also have the believing Israelites of which Paul was one. And we have the Gentiles
both believing and unbelieving. So in fact there are four groups within humanity as
a whole.

What concerns us Bambi is that there are two distinct groups among the Israelites.
Old covenant Israelites and New Covenant Israelites. That is why so much of the
New Testament is consumed by the friction between these two groups.

Old covenant Israelites demand circumcision and obedience to the law.
Whereas New Covenant Israelites enjoy the full reconciliation offered
by God to those who believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[Bambi]

Hello Bambi.

We do not have to seperate the two groups, Paul does that for us Bambi.

If you read Paul's letter to the Romans, Paul goes to great length to explain
why physical Israel was hardened to God's reconciliation in Jesus Christ.

Romans 11
25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery,
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening
has happened to (physical) Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

So we have the physical Israelites who crucified the Christ and opposed Paul.

We also have the believing Israelites of which Paul was one. And we have the Gentiles
both believing and unbelieving. So in fact there are four groups within humanity as
a whole.

What concerns us Bambi is that there are two distinct groups among the Israelites.
Old covenant Israelites and New Covenant Israelites. That is why so much of the
New Testament is consumed by the friction between these two groups.

Old covenant Israelites demand circumcision and obedience to the law.
Whereas New Covenant Israelites enjoy the full reconciliation offered
by God to those who believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You are right there were divisions during the writing of the New Testament, but now there is only one division and that is the Saved and Unsaved.

There is one more thing both in the Old and New Testament that is Israel and that is a single person. In the Old Testament, Jacob is Israel. Also a single person in the New Testament and that is Jesus. And because of Jesus being Israel the body of Christ is spiritual Israel and is what the prophets prophesied concerning Judah and Israel during the messianic kingdom.

 

[Brother Paul]

After Solomon until the end of the Old Testament there is a division in the Kingdom and one group (the North) are referred to as the children of, Kingdom of, and House of Israel, sometimes called Ephraim...while the other group (the South - Judah and Benjamin and some Levites) are called and referred to as the children of, Kingdom of, and house of Judah...

It was the Southern Kingdom which was carried away to Babylon and when they return, they come back being referred to as "Jews" (of Judah)...this is the first time we ever hear the term and the origin of its usage...of the few that tried to return from the Assyrian captivity most were rejected if they were mixed or had foreign wives...those few of the other tribes that were re-admitted, were associating themselves with the Jews and thus the name in the time of Jesus. So all through the Prophets we must discern and appropriate the terms to rightly divide the word of truth.

In His love

Brother Paul

 

[Bambi]

There is another group of descendants from Abraham that the bible identifies in the New Testament, but there are not called Jews. They are descendants of Jacob which makes them Israel, although the Bible still doesn't call them that. The Samaritans. They would also be the mixed race of Jew and Gentile from the Assyrian captivity.

Discernment is a mature thing to have. The question is, "Whose discerning it the right way?

 

[Brother Paul]

There is another group of descendants from Abraham that the bible identifies in the New Testament, but there are not called Jews. They are descendants of Jacob which makes them Israel, although the Bible still doesn't call them that. The Samaritans. They would also be the mixed race of Jew and Gentile from the Assyrian captivity.

Discernment is a mature thing to have. The question is, "Whose discerning it the right way?

Good point sis...rightly dividing the word of truth is not always as easy as it sounds...the Lord be with us.