Pastor Who Do You Think You Are?

Eric E Stahl · Sep 28, 2013

james1523 · Sep 29, 2013

Our mistakes are for our learning and growth in Christ, so your pastor friend will be a better Christian because of it. The Father prunes His vine tree. No one "wants to be a pastor" in the Bible. Apostle Paul didn't "want to be" an apostle. The Lord called him (dramatically), the Lord changed him, the Lord used him. That's how it works. Not someone thinking they want a career change and think pastor is a good job so they do that.
There's no such thing as one man called pastor leading a "church service" in the Bible. If God uses you in a pastoral role, you are a pastor. It's that simple. You don't decide to be used in the way you think God wants you to be used. You must submit and allow God to use you how He wants to use you.
Jesus established a group of brothers ( and sisters) and this is church. They held meetings frequently to remember the Lord and to fellowship in the Holy Spirit. Their leader was Christ and Christ alone as their head. Their earthly leaders were whoever were called by God to lead by example, not by authoritarian rule. Jesus was truly their Head, and they were His body. Those with more knowledge of Christ, more maturity in the life of Christ, took care of the souls of weaker members as overseer. These are the real pastors.

will · Oct 3, 2013

Pastors (teachers of Bible) are supposed to be first of all: A Mature Christian.
We see too many of immature Christians stumble their way being a Pastor when their own spiritual life is in shambles.
One does *not* automatically become a good Pastor because he graduated from a seminary, or having a famous preacher as dad, or inherited a big church.

One becomes a good Pastor because of the time he spend thinking about God, and because of that time, is grown by God in both capacity and understanding. Take a look anywhere in the New Testament, there weren't any Seminaries back then, only people who are willing to submit to the Holy Spirit and be grown into the likeness of Lord Jesus.

Shutterbug · Oct 3, 2013

The guidelines are typically this:

1Ti 3:1-13 NIV
1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.
2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.
5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.
10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.
13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

It's a tall order to fulfill.

Cheers, John

Chad · Oct 3, 2013

Well said @Shutterbug

That scripture is the official guideline for pastoring.

Shutterbug · Oct 4, 2013

Good morning All;

I mentioned the above verses in context because that's the theory. But, their mention is not with happy memories learned at the feet of the Wise Ones, so to speak. It was drilled into me on many occasions indirectly by someone who had had an ongoing feud with others in the Oneness Pentecostal newsgroup. It seems at one point, he wanted to become a pastor and underwent training for that purpose. He neither confirmed nor denied anything about why he used the title, Reverend, when online. He claimed to pastor a church and had a ministry, but the church was not listed in the City Directory. He had broken off relations with a local church and its main organization over items such as cloth jewellery (neckties), women cutting their hair, spending time with trinity (three God) preachers, etc. Remarkably, he sent his converts to that church to be baptized. Finally, the church stopped that practice. He was very upset because he was forced to install a baptismal tub in his basement.

He had a rather volatile temper if he did not get his way. He had a number of online sermons whose content were more about his pet peeves than useful daily guidance. He used the verse of Galatians 1:8 as authority to curse people in the name of Jesus. I'm quite serious as he has cursed me twice in such a manner. He formed a gospel rock band with his wife and children. The general tone of the music was more about warning others against trinitarians than praise and worship value. Another significant issue was that people complained about his behaviour and a number of online venues have dropped him. Yet, his own online sites are carefully controlled. Disagree, and you're banned in a heart beat. He still has online sites, but they see little activity. He now goes by the term Brother, and his reformed band continues to sporadically record songs against all things Trinity. He is now approaching retirement age and I suspect spending long periods of term in angry discussions wearies him, but spending time drafting good advice has not really caught on, either. The pet peeve topics of a decade ago are still adamantly preached today.

I do not mention him in condemnation as I have often felt that he had much potential. Once he gets an idea in his head, it's there for life. As long as he stayed on course, he would do well. Unfortunately, he often got into disagreements which deteriorated into hateful exchanges. Yes, I could point fingers at the Big Guns of the time such as Jim Bakker and Jim Swaggart. As we ascend the ladder of success, our accomplishments become more about us than who we work for. When you're at the top, it can be a dramatic fall to the bottom. Even a short fall can leave a lasting mark.

When people are young, they need a starting point. They may have the academic training, but not the wisdom or patience. Some people are lucky; others, not so much. The more people you are in charge of, the more people you take with you and ultimately responsible for. Whether you be young or old makes little difference to me. It's who you put first in your life, and why, and what evidence you have to support it. Trust me, there is no halo over my head.

Phil 4:8
Cheers, John

Barny · Oct 6, 2013

Perhaps we need to also consider the following scripture as well.

Matt 23:6-10
And they take pleasure in and [thus] love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,And to be greeted with honor in the marketplaces and to have people call them rabbi.

But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.

And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

And you must not be called masters (leaders), for you have one Master (Leader), the Christ.

james1523 · Oct 10, 2013

Barny said:
Perhaps we need to also consider the following scripture as well.

Matt 23:6-10
And they take pleasure in and [thus] love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,And to be greeted with honor in the marketplaces and to have people call them rabbi.

But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.

And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.

And you must not be called masters (leaders), for you have one Master (Leader), the Christ.

Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, call the priest "father".
In the other denominations, the pastor is sometimes called their "leader".
To put it bluntly, all are wrong and will be condemned by Christ on his return. Both the one who accepts the name, and the ones who give it.
If a pastor or priest hears such a title given to them, they should say "don't call me that please, I am not your father or your priest or your leader, you have only one such Person, Christ".
This is very basic scripture, it is so basic even a child can understand it.
I know some pastors and priests who are careful never to be called by such names.
But the majority accept the names.
In the early middle ages spiritual "leaders" were elevated to high positions within society to provide a kind of spiritual service to the village or city.
This is where this practice comes from, not from the bible.

tinks · Oct 12, 2013

A pastor is NOT a title it is GIFT. Elders are not all pastors or teachers...a preacher is not always a pastor and so on. They are all gifts NOT titles.
Eph 4 :7-11 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

james1523 · Oct 12, 2013

I would point out also that the gifts are the persons that God has given to the church. They are not abilities that a person has, but a particular person that God has raised up to build up the church. The "measure of the gift of Christ" is how much of Christ is living in the person. The gifts do not stand alone from Christ - apostle, pastor, prophet etc they are all aspects of Christ's person.

This is in contrast to the spiritual gifts that all believers have - e.g. tongues, healing, service etc, which are abilities and aspects of the Holy Spirit.

So we have God's gifts to the Church such as apostles, pastors etc, which are the particular men (and women) that He has given to shepherd, build up and minister to His people. These people are representing various aspects of Christ's person, hence "gifts of Christ".

And we have the spiritual gifts which are the unlearned supernatural abilities that God has given every believer. These are all from the Holy Spirit, hence "gifts of the Holy Spirit".

The gift of the person and the gift of the Spirit are two different things. Confusion has arisen because people think of all the gifts as abilities rather than people. So some think prophets must have the supernatural ability to prophesy, and that apostles must be able to do miracles. And that if you prophesy you are a prophet, or if you pastor you are a pastor. This is not the case. The Bible tells us that any believer can (and should) prophesy (1 Cor 14:31), and any believer can be a feeder of sheep (pastor) , and every believer can and should evangelize, but this does not make them prophets or pastors or evangelists.

UncleD · Oct 25, 2013

will said:
Pastors (teachers of Bible) are supposed to be first of all: A Mature Christian.
We see too many of immature Christians stumble their way being a Pastor when their own spiritual life is in shambles.
One does *not* automatically become a good Pastor because he graduated from a seminary, or having a famous preacher as dad, or inherited a big church.

One becomes a good Pastor because of the time he spend thinking about God, and because of that time, is grown by God in both capacity and understanding. Take a look anywhere in the New Testament, there weren't any Seminaries back then, only people who are willing to submit to the Holy Spirit and be grown into the likeness of Lord Jesus.

Good word, we must grow to be a Pastor, the flesh must be subservient and Obedience to the Holy Spirits leading paramount. Rom 8 emphasis on verse 14.

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