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From Eternity Past

NetChaplain

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The intent of this article is not a presumption to know or understand God’s will for mankind, but rather to speculate concerning His control within the entirety of all of His creation. In my opinion, His will must involve complete control (acting according to foreknowledge, e.g. He always knew but not always acted upon creation until His time of choosing to create); otherwise I believe it could be concluded as confusion. Also, please forgive me if this article seems to be disruptive to you in any way.

From Eternity Past

Was man supposed to enter into sin (could God say, “They weren’t supposed to do that)? Since God foreknew man would sin and allowed it to transpire, could this be part of His foreknown plans; esp. considering nothing happens without His foreknowledge and the fact that He could have preplanned to disallow it? The issue isn’t that man chose to sin, but rather the fact of God’s foreknowledge of it.

I believe since God is omniscient, every occurrence in this life that He allows to transpire is not only foreknown by Him, but is also taken into consideration as part of His plan, which was foreknown prior to creation—from eternity past. The only alternative is being bereft of the impossibility that God is not omniscient and does not foreknow everything; or He chooses not to know certain things, which would be an even greater impossibility, considering omniscience means “all knowing” (God never had to learn anything but has always foreknown everything—a very comforting thought for the saved).

To address the above concept, two prominent and unavoidable elements must be examined and if done rightly, it may serve as a base. These are; God’s will and God’s desire. In a general sense these two terms can intend identical definitions, depending upon the context, as all words do; but their specific sense varies according to usage.

The specific intention of “God’s will” concerns His “ways,” which are “past finding out” (Rom 11:33). Even though He is “not willing (desirous) that any should perish” (2 Pet 3:9), and “Who will have (wills or desires to have) all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), He foreknew the generality of mankind would perish (Matt 7:13, 14). For “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him” (John 1:11). This passage has direct reference to the Jews but may also be applied indirectly to the rest of the world when considering “The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof” (1 Cor 10:26, 28).

For example, the “will of God” is that all who receive His Son inherit eternal life (John 1:12). Now, if He chooses not to grant the same for those who do not want to believe, this cannot be attributed as being partial (Rom 2:11; Eph 6:9). Partiality can only be attributed if He broke His will for the unbelieving and granted them eternal life, which would disregard His will.

Therefore concerning the controlling-factor of God (the crux of this article), everyone is an active subject of His will, but not an active subject of His desire!

-NC
 
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So would you then say that in effect God causes the sinner to sin the sins they sin? Thus when a man is tempted it is because God created Him to be tempted in just this way? If so then even Hitler was merely doing God's will for him and those things God which has revealed are abominable to Him, which He hates, are those things He predetermined the doer to do irresistibly? Thus the logical conclusion being that even the very works of the devil which Christ came to destroy are in effect God's works? And to that doctrine I say, God forbid so I pray this is not your conclusion! Is it?

In His love...

Brother Paul
 
So would you then say that in effect God causes the sinner to sin the sins they sin? Thus when a man is tempted it is because God created Him to be tempted in just this way?

In His love...

Brother Paul

Hi BP - Thanks for reply and appreciate your comment/inquiry because I believe you present an applicable inquiry to the thread.

It's obvious God created man with the ability to sin, same as the angels (but they are not heirs of salvation, just messengers to those who are - Heb 1:14), or Adam and Eve couldn't have sinned. Whether this nature was antecedent of the temptation is irrelevant to me, but God foreknowing is. I believe one the primary similarities between the angelic and human order is autonomy, which is what I believe is the primary "likeness" of God, e.g. only man and angels have this ability.

It is this ability of choosing for self (Due 30:19) that incurs accountability, and just as the angels were created with the ability to chose, so man also has. God's "ways are past finding out" (Rom 11:33) and I believe He chose to use sin in His plan, which in my opinion does not make God to become a part of sin. To allow for the concept of man being in His "likeness" concerning choice, He "determined" this is the way, or He would have predetermined another way if it wasn't the way He desired it to transpire.

God doesn't "cause the sinner to sin" but in order that we are like (likeness) Him in autonomy, this is His way.

I expect there will be many who conceive of this concept to be ridiculous and my apologies, but my reason for posting all my materials is to encourage, not compete.

God's blessings to your Family!
 
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Yes and blessings also to you and yours. I see we are in agreement. The first post was a bit obscure to me (I am sure this was my lack of understanding) but the second made your position very clear and it is exactly what I also believe the Bible teaches.

In His love

Brother Paul
 
Yes and blessings also to you and yours. I see we are in agreement. The first post was a bit obscure to me (I am sure this was my lack of understanding) but the second made your position very clear and it is exactly what I also believe the Bible teaches.

In His love

Brother Paul

Thanks Brother. I believe our replies to your inquiry is significant enough to post on this and other sites I have posted this article on, as a follow-up reply so others with the similar conceptions can use it too. Can I have your permission? I think I also need this sites Admin/Mod permission also, of which I will allow one day from now to respond.
 
if you mean this..."So would you then say that in effect God causes the sinner to sin the sins they sin? Thus when a man is tempted it is because God created Him to be tempted in just this way? If so then even Hitler was merely doing God's will for him and those things God which has revealed are abominable to Him, which He hates, are those things He predetermined the doer to do irresistibly? Thus the logical conclusion being that even the very works of the devil which Christ came to destroy are in effect God's works? And to that doctrine I say, God forbid so I pray this is not your conclusion!"

Yes you certainly have my permission to use these words (I have no authority to allow you to link this forum), and they do not require anyone else's permission on this or any other forum since my words are my intellectual property, but more importantly they are the truth. And God tempts no man, neither does He make him to sin.
 
So would you then say that in effect God causes the sinner to sin the sins they sin? Thus when a man is tempted it is because God created Him to be tempted in just this way?

Just the above and thanks Paul.

For Christ's Sake

Robert
 
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