“Cross Deliverance”

[NetChaplain]

There is no strength or power in ourselves against “the law of sin which is in our members” (Rom 7:23). The Father has lefts us much dependent on the Lord Jesus’ work on the Cross for our deliverance as for our forgiveness! It is wholly because we died with Him on the Cross, both to sin and to the whole legal principle, that sin’s power for those in Christ is broken.

“I thank God (for deliverance) through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Rom 7:25). The answer to Paul’s self-despairing question, “Who shall deliver me?” is a revelation, even identification with Christ in His death! For just as the sinner struggles in vain to find forgiveness and peace, until he looks outside himself to Him who made peace by the Blood of His Cross, just so does the quickened soul, struggling unto despair to find victory over sin by self-effort, look outside himself to the risen Lord Jesus—in whom he is, and in whom he died to sin and to the law!

Paul was not delivered from the reign of sin by Christ, but through Him; not by anything He then or at that time did for him, but through the realization of the fact that he had died with Christ on the Cross to this hated indwelling sin, and law of sin; and to God’s Law, which gave sin its power. “The strength of sin is the law’ (1 Cor 15:56).

The sinner is not forgiven by what Christ now does, but by faith in what He did do at the Cross, for the word of the Cross is the power of God (1 Cor 1:18). Just so, the believer is not delivered by what Christ does for him now; but in the revelation to the soul of identification with Christ’s death unto sin and the law on the Cross: for again, the word of the Cross is the power of God!

It will be by the Holy Spirit that this deliverance is wrought in us; as we shall see in Romans Eight. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” is God’s order. To sum up Paul’s great discoveries in this struggle of Romans Seven: That sin dwelt in him—though he delighted in God’s Law. That his will was powerless against it. That the sinful self was not his real self. And that there was deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ah, what relief to Paul’s soul—probably out yonder alone in Arabia, struggling more and more in vain to compel the flesh to obey the Law. To have revealed to his weary soul the second glorious truth of the Gospel—that he had died with Christ, to sin, and to Law which sin had used as its power.

And now the conclusion—which is the actual text of Romans Seven. “So then I of myself with the mind”—this is the real new-creation self, which the Apostle has over and over said that “sin that dwelleth in Him” was not! “With the mind”—all the spiritual faculties included, indeed, the soul-faculties of reason, imagination, sensibility—which even now are “being renewed” by the Holy spirit, day by day.

“Am subject to God’s Law” (or will)—all new creatures can say, “But with the flesh sin’s law.” He saw it at last, and bowed to it—that all he was by the flesh, by nature, was irrevocably committed to sin. So he gave up—to see himself wholly in Christ (who now lived in him) and to walk not by the Law, even in the supposed powers of the quickened life—but by the Spirit only; in whose power alone the Christian life is to be lived. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (Rom 8:2).

- Wm R Newell

(Miles J Stanford, “Position Papers,” Vol. Two, pg. 360, mjsbooks.com)

 

[B-A-C]

There is no strength or power in ourselves against “the law of sin which is in our members” (Rom 7:23).

Before we are saved, this is true. After we are saved, we still sin as Paul was speaking in Romans 7. We have the power to stop sinning after we saved. But we choose to sin anyway sometimes.
This is why we are told....
Jas 4:7; Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
1 Pet 5:8; Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1 Pet 5:9; But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
1 Pet 5:10; After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
Eph 6:13; Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

The Holy Spirit helps us to do this, but he doesn't force us. We can still sin if we choose to.
John 14:16; "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

But of course the more we are walking in the Spirit, the less we will want to sin.

 

[NetChaplain]

We have the power to stop sinning after we saved. But we choose to sin anyway sometimes.

Hi BAC - I believe practical opposition to the "old man" (sin source) comes only from the Spirit (Gal 5:17) and not from the life of the believer. Even though we hate it and stand against it, we are powerless to work against it. This is why it's all the Spirit, as we "yield," He wields! We choose God's will (Phil 2:13) and He makes it happen, not us. Ours is always the choosing, His is the doing!

 

[james1523]

The crucifixion comes not from us alone nor the Spirit alone but the human spirit regenerated and joined with the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:17). That is, it is a mutual effort. Our spirit provides the will or initiative, and God's Spirit provides the power.
The Spirit is not an external power or force we "call down" upon us, or invite into us, the Spirit is already inside of us as believers.

The cross works by killing the self (old man). The purpose of the cross is to kill the self. When the self is killed only Christ remains.
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Us being crucified with Christ is the same thing as the Holy Spirit joining to our spirit (1 Cor 6:17, Gal 4:6). The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ crucified and because of the crucified Christ joining to our spirit we are crucified with Christ. This is what has taken place in the spiritual realm but we must work it out practically into our mind, emotions, will by yielding and choosing His will and cooperating with Him, as NetChaplain said previous. That is, to experience the crucifixion or killing of the self, we must allow the outworking of the Spirit of Christ crucified.

Actually, the whole Trinity is involved in our crucifixion. The Father and the Son sovereignly arranges our circumstances and environment to bring us to the cross. The Son actively prays and intercedes for us that we may endure the cross, and also acts as our role model as the one who has gone before us. And the Spirit is the one who makes it all happen inside of us.

The way to tell if we are crucified or not is to ask ourselves this: are we still struggling or not? As long as we are struggling against sin or self, we are not yet crucified. A dead person does not and cannot struggle, they are dead. When we can say like Paul did "I no longer live". If we are still swayed about by our environment, circumstances, other people, we are not yet crucified. Our reactions are the best test of whether we are dead or not. A dead person does not react, they don't even feel hurt.

 

[B-A-C]

The crucifixion comes not from us alone nor the Spirit alone but the human spirit regenerated and joined with the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:17). That is, it is a mutual effort. Our spirit provides the will or initiative, and God's Spirit provides the power.

Amen.
If you're sitting back, waiting for God to do it all. You haven't been reading the Bible.
We are told we have to submit to God.
Jas 4:7; Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Rom 13:5; Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.


The Bible says we are running a race, it says to run as you want to win it. It also says you can run this race in vain under certain circumstances.
1 Cor 9:24; Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
1 Cor 9:26; Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
Gal 2:2; It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain.
Php 2:16; holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

If you're sitting back waiting for God to do it all. You aren't running, and you certainly aren't running to win.
God's power does work within us. It's true.
Eph 3:20; Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,

Yet, subjection to God requires submission and self discipline.
1 Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

It says "I" discipline my body, not that God forces my body to be disciplined.
Oh God will certainly discipline us when we need it, and the Holy Spirit will help us.

But some of the effort to do these things must come from us. Not just talking about it, but walking it.
Ecc 5:3; For the dream comes through much effort and the voice of a fool through many words.
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Col 1:10; so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Make sure you're running the race, disciplining your body, walking in a manner worthy, doing the good works he created you for.
If you're just sitting back waiting for him to do it all....

Mat 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
In fact that whole parable (and a few others) is about investing and working for the kingdom of God.

It's not about sitting back on your.... and waiting for God to do it all. Anyone who teaches that is teaching a false doctrine.
1 Cor 3:8; Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1 Cor 3:14; If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
Heb 10:35; Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
2 Jn 1:8; Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

So which will he say to you?
Well done good and faithful servant...
or depart from me you wicked and lazy servant?

1 Tim 6:12; Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

Rev 3:16; 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

 

[NetChaplain]

And the Spirit is the one who makes it all happen inside of us.

Hi James - It's instructional, as you've indicated, that all the things the Father and Son do in and for the believer are through the Holy Spirit. I also find it instructional to realize that the Spirit does not impart His life to the believer, but that through His life He imparts the life of Christ (Col 3:4); it is the life and image of Christ in which one is regenerated, for as we know, there are three lives within the Triune-Deity.

Thus it is also the Lord Jesus' Cross which the Spirit applies to our "old man" (old nature--Rom 6:6) during rebirth and the instruction in this is how one comprehends the meaning concerning the crucifixion of our sinful nature (old man). As you may know, this can be conceived as the eradication of the old man or, just as Scripture states, only crucifixion but not death, which is similar to one being crucified but not dying, just retained (Rom 6:12, 14). Some may conceive that its presence must be gone, as a manifestation of our redemption, but our redemption is effected only in the Atonement and nothing else.

We are "dead to sin" (Rom 6:2) but sin is not dead to us, for nowhere in Scripture is it said to be anything but "crucified." This explains Paul's encounter of realizing it continues to "dwell within" (Rom 7:17, 20) and also explains the Spirit's encounter with it in Galatians 5:17, which if it were dead He would not be opposing it for us.

You may already be familiar with all this and my posting this is not an attempt to convince you of anything, but to share my beliefs, as you have, which I appreciate Brother.

 

[B-A-C]

the meaning concerning the crucifixion of our sinful nature (old man). As you may know, this can be conceived as the eradication of the old man or, just as Scripture states, only crucifixion but not death, which is similar to one being crucified but not dying, just retained (Rom 6:12, 14). Some may conceive that its presence must be gone, as a manifestation of our redemption, but our redemption is effected only in the Atonement and nothing else.

We are "dead to sin" (Rom 6:2) but sin is not dead to us, for nowhere in Scripture is it said to be anything but "crucified." This explains Paul's encounter of realizing it continues to "dwell within" (Rom 7:17, 20) and also explains the Spirit's encounter with it in Galatians 5:17, which if it were dead He would not be opposing it for us.

First a question....
Does the Bible really say "sin is crucified" anywhere? Or does it says our old sinful flesh (the old man) was crucified?

Second, an observation...
Mark 15:25-37 suggests that Jesus was on the cross about 6 hours. He was "on-trial" for at least 8 hours before that.
The point being, there is a time where the old self is still alive even though it is being crucified. The change the Spirit does isn't always immediate, but takes time in many cases.

 

[NetChaplain]

Does the Bible really say "sin is crucified" anywhere? Or does it says our old sinful flesh (the old man) was crucified?

Quite an inquisitive point BAC! To me, sin is not a source but a product of a source, which human nature is a source of sin, along with Satan and the angels who also chose to rebel. The original, Adamic nature with which man is born proceeding Adam and Eve is a source of sin. Thus it is not sin itself which is crucified, but rather "condemned" (Rom 8:3). The product (sin) is condemned requiring crucifixion of its source (old man--sinful nature).

The misunderstanding often encountered is the conception that "flesh" refers to the physical body, in which case it is thus rarely intended. Flesh is nearly always used to refer to the carnal, sinful nature, not the body. The physical body is just a manifestation of the spirit within it.

The body is subjective to the spirit and its nature and how the nature is, so goes the spirit, but the body is victimized, if you will, and cannot incur the responsibility of guilt. Things, such as the body, are pure within themselves (Rom 14:20) because all things lack the autonomy which the soul of the spirit has. The ability of choice is from the soul of our spirit, not the body, which is used in the carrying out of sinful and godly actions.

 

[NetChaplain]

The change the Spirit does isn't always immediate, but takes time in many cases.

The only part which requires time is the believer's walk of life, which admits in degrees (2 Cor 3:18). Our essence of life at regeneration possess "all things that pertain unto life (eternal-not temporally eternal) and godliness (2 Pet 1:3), e.g. righteousness, justification, holiness, etc.; which without possessing, the Holy Spirit could not work in conforming us to Christ's image.

 

[james1523]

Hi James - It's instructional, as you've indicated, that all the things the Father and Son do in and for the believer are through the Holy Spirit. I also find it instructional to realize that the Spirit does not impart His life to the believer, but that through His life He imparts the life of Christ (Col 3:4); it is the life and image of Christ in which one is regenerated, for as we know, there are three lives within the Triune-Deity.

I agree, in other words, the Spirit does not just impart Divinity but also Christ's humanity, living, suffering, crucifixion and resurrection. It helps to remember that the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of Christ. So the Holy Spirit within us can identify with our humanity and also applies the elements of Christ's cross to us. This is one reason why the Holy Spirit could not enter into anyone before Christ died - only the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of Christ could dwell within fallen man. The Bible says the spirit of man knows everything about man (1 Cor 2:11). In the same way, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ living in you, knows everything about Christ, and imparts that to your being.

Thus it is also the Lord Jesus' Cross which the Spirit applies to our "old man" (old nature--Rom 6:6) during rebirth and the instruction in this is how one comprehends the meaning concerning the crucifixion of our sinful nature (old man). As you may know, this can be conceived as the eradication of the old man or, just as Scripture states, only crucifixion but not death, which is similar to one being crucified but not dying, just retained (Rom 6:12, 14). Some may conceive that its presence must be gone, as a manifestation of our redemption, but our redemption is effected only in the Atonement and nothing else.

Yes, specifically this is applied to our soul, our mind, emotions, will.

We are "dead to sin" (Rom 6:2) but sin is not dead to us, for nowhere in Scripture is it said to be anything but "crucified." This explains Paul's encounter of realizing it continues to "dwell within" (Rom 7:17, 20) and also explains the Spirit's encounter with it in Galatians 5:17, which if it were dead He would not be opposing it for us.

Yes, sin is not dead to us completely because we are still in our fleshly bodies with the inherited sin from Adam. This is why our bodies cannot be glorified unless we die. At most we can be fully changed in our mind, emotions and will, but we need to die physically to experience complete death of sin.
Sometimes sin can refer to the act of disobedience that results from our old nature. Or sometimes our physical flesh, yet to die, is personified as "sin" or even called satan because of its inherited sin and satanic nature.