Devil rebelion

[B-A-C]

"God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5).

Rev 4:8; And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME."

I think the Bible makes it clear, God doesn't play both sides of the fence.

Mark 3:24; "If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Mark 3:25; "If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.
Mark 3:26; "If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!
Luke 11:17; But He knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.

God is not on Satan's side. Nor is Satan on God's side.

Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
Isa 14:15; "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

 

[spirit1st]

It was the devil ,satan HE was talking about .

Eze_28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

That is not a mere man .

But I grant you this ? satan will be in the anti-christ and control him 100%

God did not create sin . sin is rebellion to GOD. Why would He hate Sin , then make others do it . To destroy His kingdom.

I know that scripture , seen it used many times to try to reveal GOD as evil and vile. HE not. HE LOVE 100% prefect LOVE.

He allows evil . He uses it at times.

but it always out of LOVE. Like divorce . it evil in GOD eyes. But He allows it for certain reasons. Under grace He allows lots , many might count GOD as evil for allowing these things He does.

I see GOD as perfect and never doing anything that is not out of Perfect LOVE. If one day My Father god says i must put you in the lake of fire. I will try very hard to agree .

I trust Him and know HE truly is LOVE.

We also see His perfect will is not being done . We see not all mankind is going to be saved . We also see what HE has Created . is being destroyed .

It in His permissive will many of these bad things are done and will be destroyed.

Evil is in His permissive will .

Everything was Perfect when He created it . It was without flaws. Once people started sinning , then Everything was no longer Good ,but defiled messed up .It changed ,everything started dying ,even the planet.

Listen ? To Him thee is evil . HE WEPT . Revealing how much the evil did affect HIM.

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept.

With your thinking Sarg. You think GOD has caused all the evil in heaven and on earth .

This is not truth .
Yes I agree ,He saw it coming. But He allowed it too take place . So He could gain a family made like JESUS CHRIST to be with Him forever more and share His vast kingdom with .

He could have destroyed all those angels and Adam and Eve would never have sinned . But He would not have New creatures made like JESUS

I know we are tried and tested . So we would not have been tried if He just made us like JESUS .

Also I think it about lots more than this little planet and mankind.

Because the rest of those angels and other beings He has there and maybe there are other planets with beings too? I have no idea what all He Created ? But i do know a little of New Jerusalem.

And those other angels and Creatures there could say ? Why have You shared your throne with these and why are they made differently and cannot sin and are just like Jesus ?

Now He can say? They were saved By my SON JESUS and are in my Son Jesus and were tried and tested and are just like Him Now and forever more.

Not saying this is 100% Truth . But i do believe there was much more at stake than just our planet and mankind .

For some reason people mostly think it all about them or mankind. When the truth is ? It about Him .

 

[spirit1st]

Sargent , One of your problems as I see it is misunderstanding what is met by predestination

You see we are All predestined if we accept HIS gospel and HIM as LORD. It not just that He saw a few who would accept and the rest of the world is doomed no matter what.

Why would He call us to preach the good news to all mankind? It would be worthless. He could just sent us to the few ,then take us out quickly.

He said ? He wanted all to come to salvation.
That His perfect will .

He died for All mankind , not just some.

You see when you think That only you and some others were picked ? Then the rest are nothing. Your so much better than them .
The truth is we are All born into sin. all die in the flesh as sinners .

There is no Good thing in your flesh , that sets you apart from others ! In fact HE tells us if we compare ourselves too others ? We are NOT WISE. We are dumb.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Rom_7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

So we see there is no good thing in your flesh that sets you apart from any other. after all . He makes all of us new creatures any way.
And only that new creature goes to heaven [New Jerusalem]

Nothing of us are worthy of anything in the flesh. All born into sin and dies because of this sin nature in our flesh.

So we see ? He can make any a new creature who is willing to accept HIS gospel as truth and HIm from our heart [Spirit] as LORD. It a FREE GIFT and for all mankind.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This is what takes place when we chose HIm as LORD and accept what He did for us

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

We must accept HIM first and what He did for us before we are reborn.

But we know for sure the false prophet and the anti-christ guy and those who take the mark are doomed

Now on the judgment day ? I do not know for sure what takes place.

But the fallen angles and satan himself are already judged and doomed.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He gave every person who comes into this world a measure of Faith so they could be SAVED .

We decide if we go to Hell or NEW JERUSALEM . I already know you disagree .
It ok I do not mind how you see it . I see it differently .

I just explaining how i see it .

Just as I said ? I Believe GOD has a Perfect will and a Permissive will . He allows grace and evil and sin in His permissive will .It not His perfect will.

That why we are reborn into His perfect will . spirit beings that cannot sin. New Creatures a Brand new Race of beings made like our LORD JESUS. But still dwelling in sin filled flesh bodies a Short time. While He uses those willing ? To bring many into the KINGDOM. But planting seeds of truth or leading them by revealing the Good news which is for All Mankind.

Rom_10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Everyone a preacher who preaches His gospel .

There is Only one true church and it is Unseen.
All the churches we see on earth will be destroyed 100%

The eternal things are the things we do not see with our natural Eyes .

If we can JUST understand that ? We will see so much more. Nothing we see is eternal .

Then one thing we see right away ? Our flesh bodies never go up.

 

[Sargento]

HI Brighthouse...

Hi Brother Sargento! A man who parked his car, came up to me and asked me where he parked at,because i knew, i told him where his car was,he had a choice to make.Whether to believe my words,or continue looking on his own,he choose to believe my words, and so found his car,as he was leaving he thanked me for telling him where he parked it at,and said I could never have found it myself with so many cars in the lot! But he choose brother.I only spoke the truth to him to choose from. Jesus has done this for us as well.His words were given for us to believe in,or not to.

Our actions speak as to what we truly do believe don't they? if we believe then we follow,and if we do not believe then we seek else where,Jesus asked Peter a question, not because Jesus did not know what Peter was going to say, he did know,but for Peter to believe upon the very words God gave him to speak! The belief I have personal brother comes from the words Holy Spirit encouraged me to believe in,God always does his part,our part is to believe in his words,and if we do believe then our actions follow. For 22 years before Jesus came into my heart, many people spoke of Jesus to me,but I did not believe them because of there own life,they had no fruits to me of even knowing Jesus as there own Lord and savior in there own life!! HEHE

They are going to tell me something they are not following?? One day 5 people were lined up,the one man said" jumping over this cliff I will find a great treasure,so he jumped,the other 4 followed him over the cliff, no one returned,would you believe that man and jump? Or would you believe that since none of them made it back to confim there words,you would choose not to follow them? The believing part rests upon the heart of each of us.We are what we believe. God himself could come to me and speak his truth,but I have to decide on whether or not to believe in his words.That is my freedom from him. I agree that Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ made the way for me to believe!!

But I had to choose in believing this.God did not make me like a train on the track. There are many who believe such.I have heard of so many believing Jesus gave us no choice.And to all who have spoken this to me,are still in some sort of bondage in there own life. So we can agree to diagree brother,it will sure not be the first time either of us have done this.LOL The risk of believing far outweighs the risk of not believing for me bro! If I am wrong, i lose nothing,but if they are wrong they lose eternal life,i am not willing to risk that brother, i choose Jesus because he first loved me, and showed me he loved me!

By what Jesus did for me he indeed choose me.( john 15:16) And from his love he first gave to me,I believe in him! But I made that choice brother, he did not.He showed me why I should follow,he promised me so much, and delievered on everything! I have to believe, because of what Jesus did, not just in what he said.( rom 10:17) We hear first,but if we do not see in what we hear,how can God force me to believe?( james 1:22) I see Jesus everyday here in so many,and I am so thankful for them as well! Jesus set me free,and freedom is a choice we all make to have, or not have to me bro.

In war i loved freedom so much I fought for our nation to preserve this freedom! I risked death on every turn in Vietnam during my two tours,but the price of freedom is never cheap,and sure was not cheap in Jesus who shed his own blood just to give me the freedom to believe upon his most Wonderful name!! amen If we have no freedom then we have no choice either.I believe in Christ jesus we do bro. ( gal 5:13-15)

First...
I read YOUR testimony...
If I'm wrong I will be condemn, but if you're wrong YOU will be condemn... there's no middle piont.
Because live and death depend on believing in THE TRUTH not whatever we want (because even the atheist has is own "faith") ... What saves men is faith in the truth (At least in this we agree, don't we?).

Second...
You did not answer my question...

 

[Sargento]

Hi Shutterbug

Sargento:

For reasons which are merely hinted at, Lucifer (Satan) wanted to do things his way. Whether he didn't get enough credit or became self-important is open to debate. Either way, he and 1/3 of the angels engaged in a rebellion against God. That was a choice they made knowing full well they would be doomed if they failed. The Bible does not say if they were given an opportunity to repent.

Can God create evil? He certainly can, and does if it suits his purpose. I do not believe for a moment Satan was created merely as an unfortunate and doomed pawn in a game to test us.

Satan's fall from Heaven was dramatic. In a flash, he went from the shining bright and morning star to being cast down to the earth with absolutely none of his former glory. All of it gone in a flash as if it had never existed; no different than a lightning bolt whose flash is bright, but fleeting.

His goal today, as he has done since the creation of Mankind, is to influence us to imitate him: do things our own way, and/or giving all of the credit to anyone but God. And the real rub is the acceptance of Jesus in our lives. Satan definitely does not want that to happen. Perhaps the problem, originally?

Cheers,
John

The bible does not say that HE was ever good... did you read what I wrote before and consider it my friend?

If Devil was ever created to be good and became bad than God failed...

 

[Sargento]

B-A-C...

The garden was good, until the serpent (satan) rebelled against God.
The tree was neither good or bad on it's own right (it has no soul or consciousness) it was good that it was there, until man choose to eat of it (God removed it afterward).
But the question is, why did he put it there in the first place? He told Adam and Eve....
Gen 2:16; The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Gen 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."


Now why why would God tell them not to eat from it, if it was his will that they do eat from it? Did he purposely lie to Adam and Eve? Our did they simply make their own choice to disobey God?


Jos 24:15; "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."


Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."


Just because God calls out and reaches out to people doesn't mean they reach back.


John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
It's true we can't get to the Father without Jesus. But there is nothing that says we have to answer that call.


Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
God doesn't bust the door down, he gives us the choice to open the door.


I could hold a gun to your head, or maybe threaten your wife or child, and chances are, you would say anything I wanted you to say.
But would you really believe those things you were saying in your heart? God doesn't want people that are forced to come to him. (Do you think the crusades and Spanish Inquisition were from God?)
He wants people who choose him freely and willingly.


What you say is partly true, if God ordains something is going to happen. That thing will definitely happen.
But if God wants sometime to happen, he doesn't always force it to happen.


2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


Prov 1:28; "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
Prov 1:29; Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD.


Jesus choose 12 disciples, but actually he choose seventy disciples.
Luke 10:1; Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.
Luke 10:17; The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."


11 of the 12 original disciples stayed with Jesus, but what about the other 70?
There is a verse with the answer.


Matt 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1 Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

My friend, is it worth to explain those verses and YOUr mistakes in them? Will you consider it?
I just shown you your problem in the ones you quoted and you ignored it!!

I have no problem in talking to everyone, but I need to know that I'm not being ignored... and right now that's what it seems.

 

[Sargento]

James... again...you have not taken into consideration what I said...

With God there is only good, light and life: He is not everything, He is not satan, darkness, evil, or anything like that. If you believe He is both you must believe in yin-yang or one of the asian gods not the God of the bible.
"God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13).
"God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5).

Didn't I just showed you GOD in the Bible saying that HE creates evil? Did you even read my post?
I'm starting to see a pattern in many of you here...

Evil exists FOR US... not HIM...
For GOD it's all HIS creation which serve HIS purpose... thus for HIM all is good perfect and pure according to HIS will and HIS eternal plan which has never changed ... not just for him but also for everyone who has HIS spirit and understands the truth... that's why Paul says:

Unto the pure all things {are} pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving {is} nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tito 1:15

.. and also...

Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
And ye are Christ's; and Christ {is} God's.
1corinthians 3:21-23

And why is this?
Simply because ALL WAS CREATED FOR HIS PURPOSE WHICH IS TO RAISE (SANCTIFICATION) US (the elec ones).

My friend, please do not ignore me ... consider what I say and weight it.

 

[Sargento]

Spirit1st...

It was the devil ,satan HE was talking about .

Eze_28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

That is not a mere man .

But I grant you this ? satan will be in the anti-christ and control him 100%

God did not create sin . sin is rebellion to GOD. Why would He hate Sin , then make others do it . To destroy His kingdom.

I know that scripture , seen it used many times to try to reveal GOD as evil and vile. HE not. HE LOVE 100% prefect LOVE.

He allows evil . He uses it at times.

but it always out of LOVE. Like divorce . it evil in GOD eyes. But He allows it for certain reasons. Under grace He allows lots , many might count GOD as evil for allowing these things He does.

I see GOD as perfect and never doing anything that is not out of Perfect LOVE. If one day My Father god says i must put you in the lake of fire. I will try very hard to agree .

I trust Him and know HE truly is LOVE.

We also see His perfect will is not being done . We see not all mankind is going to be saved . We also see what HE has Created . is being destroyed .

It in His permissive will many of these bad things are done and will be destroyed.

Evil is in His permissive will .

Everything was Perfect when He created it . It was without flaws. Once people started sinning , then Everything was no longer Good ,but defiled messed up .It changed ,everything started dying ,even the planet.

Listen ? To Him thee is evil . HE WEPT . Revealing how much the evil did affect HIM.

Joh_11:35 Jesus wept.

With your thinking Sarg. You think GOD has caused all the evil in heaven and on earth .

This is not truth .
Yes I agree ,He saw it coming. But He allowed it too take place . So He could gain a family made like JESUS CHRIST to be with Him forever more and share His vast kingdom with .

He could have destroyed all those angels and Adam and Eve would never have sinned . But He would not have New creatures made like JESUS

I know we are tried and tested . So we would not have been tried if He just made us like JESUS .

Also I think it about lots more than this little planet and mankind.

Because the rest of those angels and other beings He has there and maybe there are other planets with beings too? I have no idea what all He Created ? But i do know a little of New Jerusalem.

And those other angels and Creatures there could say ? Why have You shared your throne with these and why are they made differently and cannot sin and are just like Jesus ?

Now He can say? They were saved By my SON JESUS and are in my Son Jesus and were tried and tested and are just like Him Now and forever more.

Not saying this is 100% Truth . But i do believe there was much more at stake than just our planet and mankind .

For some reason people mostly think it all about them or mankind. When the truth is ? It about Him .

You like to talk but not answer... you love to testify but refuse to listen.
''
Is it because he was in Eden??? That is why it was the Devil???

By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: t
Ez 28:16

And after that the devil fall because of merchandise??? Where??? In heaven???

And you ignore all the rest I've shown so this might look like a reason??? Well, I guess its the only way right?

So I suppose that you'll ignore the following too... well maybe someone doesn't.

And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third {month}, in the first {day} of the month, {that} the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
Behold, the Assyrian {was} a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. {with fair branches: Heb. fair of branches}
The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. {made...: or, nourished him} {set...: or, brought him up} {little rivers: or, conduits}
Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. {when...: or, when it sent them forth}
All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.
Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.
The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.
I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that {were} in the garden of God, envied him.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;
Ez 31:1-10

Wow... the Pharaoh in Eden????
I guess here it doesn't count either... does it?
Maybe, just MAYBE, Eden is not really Eden... Who knows...

These are parables pointing to the FUTURE, to the antichrist in the end of times... I know you refuse to see it so you can maintain your theory, however I'm hoping that someone read it and at least consider it.

 

[spirit1st]

The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[james1523]

James... again...you have not taken into consideration what I said...



Didn't I just showed you GOD in the Bible saying that HE creates evil? Did you even read my post?
I'm starting to see a pattern in many of you here...

Evil exists FOR US... not HIM...
For GOD it's all HIS creation which serve HIS purpose... thus for HIM all is good perfect and pure according to HIS will and HIS eternal plan which has never changed ... not just for him but also for everyone who has HIS spirit and understands the truth... that's why Paul says:



.. and also...



And why is this?
Simply because ALL WAS CREATED FOR HIS PURPOSE WHICH IS TO RAISE (SANCTIFICATION) US (the elec ones).

My friend, please do not ignore me ... consider what I say and weight it.

You have ignored the verse I posted which says in God is no darkness at all. Yet you say that with God is both light and darkness. This is not true... God made man for His glory. Sin, death, rebellion, does not glorify God, therefore God did not create these things.

The word evil has two useages. One is to mean the evil of sin or rebellion against God. In this sense, evil comes not from God but from the fallen creature. How and why would God author the rebellion against Himself? A house divided cannot stand, God's kingdom would be fallen if this was the case, like a person destroying themself. This kind of evil or rebellion does nothing towards God's purpose of sanctifying the elect, rather it hinders and even stops the sanctification process.

The other meaning of evil is disaster or calamity. Many modern bible versions translate this word evil as calamity or disaster. This kind of "evil" may contribute to the sanctification process.

Of course God creates calamities and disasters, but Himself is not the author of evil in the sense of sin, or Satan which is sin personified.

 

[Sargento]

James, my friend...

There is no darkness in GOD... I didn't say there it was... but the one's that exist is HIS will, HE created them for HIS own purpose... but what is darkness is to us only, not HIM.
For HIM (like is written in the Salms) light and darkness are the same..

"If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light {are} both alike {to thee}. {hideth...: Heb. darkeneth not} {the darkness and...: Heb. as is the darkness, so is the light}"
Psalm 139:11-12​

James, nothing exists without being GOD'S will... for HE supports all existence of EVERYTHING... do you believe otherwise?

Think James... HE will cease the Devil's existence in THAT day, so it's obvious that HE can do it (I think we have no disagreement here.. or do we?) ... so why does HE let him live now if HE does not want evil to exist? Because devil was created to do evil just like the wicked was created for the day of evil.

"And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And {the LORD} said, Thou shalt entice {him}, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do {even} so.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee."
2Cr18:19-22
​

James, who hardened the Pharaoh's heart so he disobey GOD's commandment ?

"And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go."
Ex4:21​

Who induced David to count his people? Wasn't GOD? However HE did it by the hand of Satan.

"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."
1Cr21:1

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."
2Sam24:1​

Why is it so hard to believe in HIS own words if HIM self says that HE creates evil and you see that HE is the one behind this beavers (like all beavers in everyone - for HE is everything in everyone)?
Does this mean that HE is not just, or perfect, or saint, or that HE has any kind of flaw???? Of course not.... or is his justice based on works by the judgement of men???

Only if you judge GOD by works too!!...DO YOU? because if you "justify" or "unjustify" by works you will find Jesus, the elect and even GOD the father guilty.

 

[B-A-C]

If there is no free will, then every bad thing that happens is because of God. There is no middle ground.
Every sin, murder, rape, child molestation is because of God if there is no free will. You can't have it both ways.
But you need to be very careful saying God causes these things, Jesus called that blasphemy.

Mat 12:26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27 "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
Mat 12:28 "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mat 12:29 "Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
Matt 12:30; "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
Matt 12:31; "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matt 12:32; "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matt 12:33; "Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit.

Mark 3:26; "If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!
Mark 3:27; "But no one can enter the strong man's house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.
Mark 3:28; "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
Mark 3:29; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"--
Mark 3:30; because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

Sin is sin. No matter who causes it. Sin is evil. The pharisee's accused Jesus of being evil (Jesus is God).
Mark 3:30 says because of this they were blaspheming.

You can say we have no free will if you like. But as for me... God is good. God is Holy. God is pure and blameless. God does not cause sin or make us sin.
He may know in advance that we are going to sin, but he doesn't make us do it.

Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.

You can't have it both ways. If there is no free will then God causes the evil things to happen.
If there is free will, then sin happens because of our choices, not his.

 

[Sargento]

B-A-C...

Of course every bad things that happens is because of GOD... thank God for that... thank GOD that evil is in HIS hands and obeys HIM ... that theres no one else out of HIM or that sustains and exists by it self...., for who trusts in HIM and knows that is loved by HIM this is a blessing that rests our hearts...

Does that makes HIM bad or wicked or not perfect?

God is above sin... HE is the one who says what sin is... with Saul sin was NOT to kill... sin is what HE says it is.

Again, do not judge God by it's actions like if HE was a man or you will find guilt in HIM....

HE IS THE LORD TO WHO ALL OBEY KNOWING IT OR NOT.

 

[spirit1st]

Sargento You are saying God is Evil and Good . Your seeing evil as a sinner. How could GOD Sin against HIMSELF?

GOD is pure prefect LOVE.
Everything GOD ever did ? HE did out of LOVE.

And satan rebelled on earth at in heaven . he tried to be the god of this world. he tricked adam and eve and the snake .

Of course it had a great bearing on all of GOD creation. Once he tried to make himself equal with GOD .

That why he was kicked out of heaven and bound to the earth .Now him and his dumb demon followers are judged and doomed and bound here.

GOD loves all mankind . He died for All mankind sins and has given All mankind Faith so they could be saved.

Again , it goes back to GOD being pure prefect LOVE.

If we do not Understand ? He is pure prefect LOVE? Then we will see Him as someone ready to hurt us or cause us pain or sorrow.
But His purpose is to help us and love us and forgive us .

Many are using this kind of thinking, to control others and use them . Thinking if they do not do this or that ? Then they are cursed and punished and hated .
when salvation is a true GIft to all mankind . So easy for mankind to take a scripture or word and get so confused.

But It Must start with us seeing GOD as Loving GOD who Only wants the best for us and never wants to hurt or destroy any.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Sargento]

I await B-A-C answer.... as for Spirit1st, you know what to do if u want my atention.

 

[B-A-C]

Does that makes HIM bad or wicked or not perfect?

God is above sin... HE is the one who says what sin is... with Saul sin was NOT to kill... sin is what HE says it is.

God is not above sin. God is Holy and just and righteous. If he sinned, yes he would be wicked.

 

[Sargento]

Oh my friend.... I'm sorry to tell you this but you do not know God.

GOD IS NOT ABOVE SIN???

Who does He sins against? Who judges Him?
Who's law does He brakes?

IS KILLING A SIN OR NOT?

When He told Saul to kill babies did HE became or made Saul a sinner? In fact, Saul sinned by NOT killing....

IS PROSTITUTION A SIN OR NOT?

When HE told Oseias to have sons of prostituts did HE sin or made Oseias sin?

IS STEALING A SIN OR NOT?

When HE told Josua to take on other peoples lands and kill them all did HE sinned or made Joshua sin?


My friend.... sin, is being against God.

Even if breakes every single one of His commandmets to us HE would not sin.... HE determins what is sin and what is not, sin exists by His will not by it self.

Just and perfect... of course, all is He's and cannot owe to no one.

 

[Sargento]

But of course, men (natural men) thinks he owns something of him self ... and that it would be unfair if He "violated" men's possessions (like free will).... and that's one face of the mortal sin.

 

[Shutterbug]

Good morning Sargento;

Are you are suggesting that God created an angel to be opposite of everything he stood for, to be a test not just for us, but for all of the angels in Heaven, too? It that's true, then would it not be reasonable to conclude the Devil is a deliberate fall-guy who will spend eternity in torment because he was created solely for that purpose? Cheers, John

 

[spirit1st]

Listen I Do Not need attention. It not about me.
But You have the wrong idea about GOD. God created and GOD can use and God can Destroy or make New Creatures.

It Not about You or your thinking.

when a person sees GOD wrong? They will not see the scripture clear.
I understand Why God told Saul and why God was trying to keep Israel pure.
I also understand GOD LOVES mankind . Everything HE ever did or said was out of Prefect pure LOVE>

God cannot sin . Sin is rebellion to GOD. God cannot re bell against HIMSELF

God kingdom is based on LOVE.

These other nations in the old testament were worshiping satan . They had nothing to do with there loving ,giving Creator.

God has suffered for about 6000 years or more. Every since HE saw what mankind was going to do on the earth . Yet By His great Love He still came into the flesh to save all those willing to see Him as LOVE and accept His free Gift of eternal life.

It no problem to make the worse sinner a new perfect creature. I am not answering your post for you/ But that others will see they must see GOD as LOVE. Love gives the mercy and grace we all need .

I just do not want others , to see GOD as a sinner or vile evil creature wanting to destroy His creations.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


GOD did not create satan . Sin changed satan into the vile evil creature he is now.
God only creates perfect things . He does not create imperfect anything. Sin has changed this planet and everything on it . God did not do that.

The wages of Sin is death . Once death starts ? It changes things for the worse.


satan roaming the earth , doing all he can to get people to think evil thoughts , even about our loving Creator.

1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The battle field is our flesh mind. That where the battle is . That where the dumb thoughts begin. We either reject those bad thoughts or accept them . then they grow and other scriptures are misunderstood ?