“Temporal Salvation!?”

[NetChaplain]

I like the example of the prodigal son because the story's main concept concerns the fact that he is his father's son, evinced by his overwhelming desire (Holy Spirit's work--Gal 5:17) to return to fellowship with his father. It does not question the concept of him being the father's son, which I believe portrays that once union is established it is inseparable, which is not the same for fellowship.

Just as one born will always be a son to his father, even though there is no fellowship (close union) between them, they are still in a father-son union genealogically. One can be in union with God but not in fellowship, which fellowship is always eventually restored. There are examples of an appearance of a union, which union is eventually evinced to never have existed by the fact of the desire of a permanent absence of fellowship.

Unlike the natural union of a family where, though they are genealogically united, they can remain out of fellowship, the union with God will ultimately be evinced by the restored fellowship, which without would leave only one alternative--there was no union to begin with!

Either one is a Christian, which means being born again, or they have never been a Christian. All newborn Christians have much to learn concerning evidences of regeneration and applied Bible doctrine, whose lifestyle will progressively evince that God is working in them. Does not God work in every believer the unfailing desire for His will (Phil 2:13) and maintain it by His Spirit (Gal 5:17). If their lifestyle eventually evinces that God is not working His will in them, it confirms that regeneration has yet to occur.

It's not sensible to conceive that God would give salvation to anyone, knowing it would be temporarily. If He knew there was a chance of it being temporal for any reason, why would He give it; and more so, why is it called "eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9) if it is not permanent for the individual, for if it's not permanent in one's life it was something other than salvation, because there is only one type of salvation--eternal salvation. If one could get out of eternal salvation then it wasn’t eternal, which is conflicting. It's the "eternal" aspect of salvation that gives its greatest value and definition, without which would be worthless and of no use.

The primary block in understanding that "the gift of God is eternal life" (Rom 6:23) isn't because one is not a believer but is due to being brought up in the Christian life under the error of thinking that the recipient of salvation owes God for it, which concept understandably results in the desire to somehow pay for it. But this leaves the believer in heresy, unaware of the meaning of "gift" (free). God’s grace endowed does not incur debt to Him, but to "one another" (Rom 13:8), which left unpaid is "as one that beateth the air."

Such is the example of the story of a man who gave someone a luxurious display cabinet as a gift and while he was leaving he happened to notice the person was about to apply sandpaper to it (because he felt obligated to do something for the gift), upon which he told the man, "There's nothing that needs to be done to the cabinet, because it is finished." (John 19:30).

Granted, Scripture contains words and phrases that reveal temporal situations which appear to be related to the possession of salvation but are rather those which are related to a false pursuit, but not the possession of salvation.

Every aspect of salvation can be known and used in the service of God, but remove its eternal element, which is its pinnacle aspect, then suddenly you have a fallen disposable structure of “wood, hay, and stubble” (heretical doctrine) instead of “gold, silver, and precious stones” (the Gospel of Christ).

-NC

 

[B-A-C]

Either one is a Christian, which means being born again, or they have never been a Christian.

And yet the Bible is full of literally dozens of examples of people falling away from the faith. Who have deserted the Gospel for another. Who the seed fell on shallow soil. Who betrayed Christ.
Who cast out demons in his name. Who were called but not chosen. Who were invited to the wedding but had no oil in their lamps. Who knew God but chose the created over the creator.
.. there are more...

It's not sensible to conceive that God would give salvation to anyone, knowing it would be temporarily

It's even more incomprehensible to believe he forces people at random. That it's choice that some go to hell. That it's his fault that we sin.

"There's nothing that needs to be done to the cabinet, because it is finished.

Yes, Jesus did his part.

God’s grace endowed does not incur debt to Him, but to "one another" (Rom 13:8), which left unpaid is "as one that beateth the air."

And yet your own scripture requires that we love one another. ( Rom 13:8; ) in order to fulfill the law. So apparently we do have some obligation, even though "it is finished".

 

[B-A-C]

Can those who have tasted the Holy Spirit fall away?

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Can some who know the true faith fall away to another faith?

1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Is it possible once God has saved us from the defilement of the world for us to turn back to it?

2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Is it possible, that even after someone knows God they can turn away from him?

Rom 1:21; For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:25; For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Is it possible for people to quit believing in God? If they do, are they still saved?

Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

Is it possible to desert Christ after you know him?

Gal 1:6; I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Is it possible to resist the Holy Spirit?

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Is it possible to ignore the call of God, even when he is reaching out to you?

Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

Is it really true God wants some people to go to hell?

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

And yet, even though God wants everyone to be saved, everyone isn't saved. Why? Could it be because he gives us a choice?

 

[B-A-C]

Is it possible, to think you are saved, but you really aren't?

Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matt 25:11; "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Matt 25:12; "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

What "lawlessness" were those in Matt 7:23 doing? If it's possible to "not really be saved in the first place", then how does anyone who is doing the work of God (casting out demons in his name for example)
really know they are saved?

 

[Chad]

Is it possible, to think you are saved, but you really aren't?

Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matt 25:11; "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Matt 25:12; "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'

What "lawlessness" were those in Matt 7:23 doing? If it's possible to "not really be saved in the first place", then how does anyone who is doing the work of God (casting out demons in his name for example)
really know they are saved?

A Tree and Its Fruit

MATTHEW 7

15 l "Beware of false prophets, m who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 n "You will know them by their fruits. o Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 "Even so, p every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 q "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


Test the Spirits

1 JOHN 4

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but a test the spirits, whether they are of God; because b many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: c Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess 1 that Jesus 2 Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.


Walk by the Spirit

GALATIANS 5

16 I say then: u Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For v the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, w so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But x if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now y the works of the flesh are evident, which are: 1 adultery, 2 fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21envy, 3 murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that z those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But a the fruit of the Spirit is b love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, c goodness, d faithfulness, 23 4 gentleness, self-control. e Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's f have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

 

[NetChaplain]

people falling away from the faith

Many "fall away" from a said faith (Jam 2:18) but never from an obtained faith. I believe apostatizing is one departing from a false pursuit of Grace, but never from entering in Grace.

 

[NetChaplain]

It's even more incomprehensible to believe he forces people at random

I believe faith in God is not something which man can self-produce and it's all simultaneous when we receive Christ, which is due to God's "drawing" (John 6:44). Then we receive faith, which is from the Spirit (fruit--Gal 5:22), along with "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (2 Pet 1:3) at the same time. The believer does not grow into godliness but from it, because he has already been given it. This is why we first are given it all and then we mature in it or from it--by the Spirit of course.

A good example is "work out your own salvation" (Phil 2:12), which means to work out of your salvation, or from your salvation. The point in this passage is that of working or figuring out how an equation was solved, e.g. learning to understand all of the aspects of salvation.

All who come to Christ for salvation are reborn and will never be lost, unlike Judas who did not come to Christ for salvation but was appointed Apostleship with Him and thus "fell" from his apostolic office, but not from grace--which he did not enter--"that he may go to his own place" (Acts 1:25). “Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him” (John 6:64).

 

[spirit1st]

I died and thought for sure i was saved. It was a big shock finding out I had not been saved . I had not been born Again .

The pastor never taught born again was a true birth which we know when it takes place . and i sure we never forget that moment. I remember mine like it took place just now.

i was so happy and full of Joy .

I know the new birth is eternal life .

For many, many reasons .

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

i do believe it the very most important message and subject that can be disgusted .

without salvation ? there would be no reason to live or die .

He provided it and there is really no reason for any to go to hell .

Still many go every day too hell and great suffering. It so SAD .

 

[NetChaplain]

I died and thought for sure i was saved. It was a big shock finding out I had not been saved . I had not been born Again .

I believe the Father's primary means of reassuring us of our place in Christ is by His "Spirit Himself" who "beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Rom 8:16). This ongoing witness-bearing is how the believer is ultimately confirmed--through Scripture; "not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth" (1 Cor 2:13). To me, the comfort in this truth encourages me the most in knowing this, and all of God's truths, are not contingent on my understanding but on the Spirit's faithfulness to me.

Still many go every day too hell and great suffering. It so SAD .

The perishing of the generality of mankind is the most heart-breaking truth known, but I believe one of the greatest concepts displaying God's love to those who are His is that even though He foreknew the majority of mankind would choose "the way that leads to destruction," He also foreknew the worth of creating for those who are His!

 

[james1523]

To be truly saved you have to be born again you have to have the Holy Spirit who is the Spirit of Jesus Christ Himself living inside of you.

It's even more incomprehensible to believe he forces people at random. That it's choice that some go to hell. That it's his fault that we sin.

You pose the same question as Rom 9:19 "One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?""

and Paul responds with Rom 9:20 "But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'""

In other words these types of questions are questioning God's will, choice and sovereignty, as if we know better or that we can fathom the ways of God who are higher than ours and His thoughts and ways not our thoughts and ways.

How about we consider that God allows many children to be born and die in Africa (for example), of no fault of their own, without ever having the chance to hear the gospel? Whose choice is that, theirs or God's? And is not God the one who determines where, when and how each individual soul should be born?

The doctrine of God choosing some to be saved and others not to be saved is difficult for us to accept as long as we believe we have a righteousness of our own (that is, feeling/thinking human beings have a desirable trait or essential goodness which God should take into account to save us).

To me grace is the fact that God has saved me and I am and did nothing to deserve it, grace is not God choosing to save me because I'm better than the next man, or child in Africa.

 

[B-A-C]

You pose the same question as Rom 9:19 "One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?""

and Paul responds with Rom 9:20 "But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'""

Apparently a great many people can resist the will and wishes of God.
2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Rom 9:21; Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22; What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

I have no doubt God uses people and circumstances to accomplish his will. There are things he has ordained.
However "enduring with much patience" doesn't sound much like "anxiously awaiting" to me. If we keep refusing him, he will eventually give us over to a depraved mind. ( Rom 1:28 )
But the hardened heart doesn't happen until we have already rejected him. (usually numerous times).

 

[spirit1st]

I do not like to talk about it ? but none of us know what going to take place on the judgment day ?
i have a good guess. But I do not care to say it .

But we do know ? Those taking the mark and those two false men will go into the lake of fire for sure ,with all those dumb fallen angels .

I preach today is the day of Salvation. Suffering in hell is no deal for any.

Our time here is so short . But So much depends on us having a relationship with GOD as Father though JESUS CHRIST our LORD.

Never going to get upset with any for not understanding all scriptures . Not one .us do.
Our bond and fellowship is in JESUS CHRIST and HIS CROSS!

But I find it wonderful that we can show scriptures and state our opinions together in LOVE and be humble doing it .

I thank God for each of you who really Love our LORD JESUS and are trying to get the correct understanding so you can share the truth with others in LOVE.

It good when Families share what GOD given them .

One thing we Must never forget ? GOD is perfect LOVE . He does not do anything without it being from HIS Perfect LOVE.
Even the things we might feel are bad or evil or heartless. They were out of HIS perfect LOVE and I am sure . He was not ever happy destroying those things He had Created.

And He Only wants the very best in each of our lives . Even the ungodly . He does not like seeing mankind suffer or hurt each other or make mistakes.

Bless you men and women who LOVE TRUTH . I am no more than the least in His Body and true unseen church .

 

[Glow]

Apparently a great many people can resist the will and wishes of God.
2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Rom 9:21; Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
Rom 9:22; What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

I have no doubt God uses people and circumstances to accomplish his will. There are things he has ordained.
However "enduring with much patience" doesn't sound much like "anxiously awaiting" to me. If we keep refusing him, he will eventually give us over to a depraved mind. ( Rom 1:28 )
But the hardened heart doesn't happen until we have already rejected him. (usually numerous times).

Hi B-A-C. I have a question.

1. If we can lose our salvation, then how are we supposed to maintain it? By faith in the finished work of Christ, or by works?

If we maintain it by works, then what about the following scripture:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Galatians 3:1-5)

Everyone who truly believes in Jesus will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 2 Corinthians 1:22 says that God has "put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

If, then, everyone who truly believes receives the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of what is to come, then how can they lose their salvation?

Salvation is by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

One might say that faith means that people will have a license to sin. But this is unbiblical. The Bible teaches that all who truly put their faith in Jesus will receive the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will change that person into a new creature who desires to serve God in love. Those who leave the faith and/or live in habitual sin demonstrate that their faith was the faith of demons, because "they went out from us because they were not of us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

(No disrespect intended by this post. Just wanted to mention some scriptures.)

 

[B-A-C]

Hi B-A-C. I have a question.

1. If we can lose our salvation, then how are we supposed to maintain it? By faith in the finished work of Christ, or by works?

If we maintain it by works, then what about the following scripture:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Galatians 3:1-5)

Hi B-A-C. I have a question.

1. If we can lose our salvation, then how are we supposed to maintain it? By faith in the finished work of Christ, or by works?

If we maintain it by works, then what about the following scripture:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Galatians 3:1-5)

Very interesting reply. First our salvation isn't maintained by works. Since we weren't saved by good works in the first place, we can't lose our salvation by bad works.
We can't sin so much that we lose our salvation. However we can sin so much we grieve the Holy Spirit and fall away from the faith. Since we are saved by faith, and not works,
we can lose our salvation by no faith, un-faith, or faith in the wrong things.

It's interesting that you chose Gal 3 to prove that we can't lose our salvation.
Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Now, was it what Abraham said he believed that "was reckoned as righteousness" or was it the work of faith he did that proved his belief that was reckoned as righteousness?

Heb 11:8; By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:23; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

Another reason I am surprised you chose Galations is ...
Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Apparently some Galations chose to desert him.

 

[kyval82]

Hi B-A-C. I have a question.

1. If we can lose our salvation, then how are we supposed to maintain it? By faith in the finished work of Christ, or by works?

If we maintain it by works, then what about the following scripture:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Galatians 3:1-5)

Very interesting reply. First our salvation isn't maintained by works. Since we weren't saved by good works in the first place, we can't lose our salvation by bad works.
We can't sin so much that we lose our salvation. However we can sin so much we grieve the Holy Spirit and fall away from the faith. Since we are saved by faith, and not works,
we can lose our salvation by no faith, un-faith, or faith in the wrong things.

It's interesting that you chose Gal 3 to prove that we can't lose our salvation.
Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Now, was it what Abraham said he believed that "was reckoned as righteousness" or was it the work of faith he did that proved his belief that was reckoned as righteousness?

Heb 11:8; By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Jas 2:21; Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:23; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

Another reason I am surprised you chose Galations is ...
Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Apparently some Galations chose to desert him.

in GAL 1:6 the word states they were called it did not say they answered!!!!!

 

[james1523]

Another reason I am surprised you chose Galations is ...
Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

Apparently some Galations chose to desert him.

Have you ever read the whole book of Galatians before? The Galatians were not leaving Christ, losing their faith and then becoming unsaved apostates. They were deserting the grace of Christ and turning to the law. Please note that this did not change who they were in Christ... This is proved by chapter 3 where Paul states that they are all sons of God, having been baptized into Christ, clothed with Christ, one in Christ, belong to Christ, Abraham's seed and heirs:

Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free,male nor female,for you are all one in Christ Jesus 29 If you belong to Christ,then you are Abraham's seed,and heirs, according to the promise.

The book of Galatians is as much proof of eternal security as any. Yes they were bewitched and foolish, but God never abandoned them.

 

[B-A-C]

Have you ever read the whole book of Galatians before? The Galatians were not leaving Christ, losing their faith and then becoming unsaved apostates. They were deserting the grace of Christ and turning to the law. Please note that this did not change who they were in Christ... This is proved by chapter 3 where Paul states that they are all sons of God, having been baptized into Christ, clothed with Christ, one in Christ, belong to Christ, Abraham's seed and heirs:

What's the difference between deserting Christ and abandoning his grace? What's the difference between snubbing the sacrifice of Christ and turning back to earthly sacrifices?

 

[spirit1st]

We hear Him when called . but we are tried and tested and only after we have proved we will follow only Him . Are we Born again . One of the elect. Our home then is no longer of this world. Our home and mother is NEW JERUSALEM .

We then belong to Him 1005 and He does not ever let us go. No one not even us can take ourselves out of His hand or vtake the seal He put on us. That not to say ? We cannot suffer greatly if we refuse to obey and keep shaming our LORD.

He might even take our lives.

1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Jas_1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

We can all make it and have eternal life if we only trust in Him?

We follow only our LORD JESUS. I know some believe we follow preachers or books or religions. It not Truth .
We can be a part of a group . But we need Him to tell us it ok .

The church I go too , He told me to go there . I told Him I wanted to go to another place. He said No . go where i told you too. I said YES LORD.

When I first went there . I gave the pastor a page of the testimonies I had written the night before . He got so mad and for about 2 years shunned me .
But now He comes up and kisses my cheek. And He tells me He very happy I worship there .

In due time God will honor us if we stay faithful.
Running from church to church is not the answer. shinning our light for our Lord where we are is . but we need to know it is His perfect will and not just our thinking.

 

[Sargento]

I like the example of the prodigal son because the story's main concept concerns the fact that he is his father's son, evinced by his overwhelming desire (Holy Spirit's work--Gal 5:17) to return to fellowship with his father. It does not question the concept of him being the father's son, which I believe portrays that once union is established it is inseparable, which is not the same for fellowship.

Just as one born will always be a son to his father, even though there is no fellowship (close union) between them, they are still in a father-son union genealogically. One can be in union with God but not in fellowship, which fellowship is always eventually restored. There are examples of an appearance of a union, which union is eventually evinced to never have existed by the fact of the desire of a permanent absence of fellowship.

Unlike the natural union of a family where, though they are genealogically united, they can remain out of fellowship, the union with God will ultimately be evinced by the restored fellowship, which without would leave only one alternative--there was no union to begin with!

Either one is a Christian, which means being born again, or they have never been a Christian. All newborn Christians have much to learn concerning evidences of regeneration and applied Bible doctrine, whose lifestyle will progressively evince that God is working in them. Does not God work in every believer the unfailing desire for His will (Phil 2:13) and maintain it by His Spirit (Gal 5:17). If their lifestyle eventually evinces that God is not working His will in them, it confirms that regeneration has yet to occur.

It's not sensible to conceive that God would give salvation to anyone, knowing it would be temporarily. If He knew there was a chance of it being temporal for any reason, why would He give it; and more so, why is it called "eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9) if it is not permanent for the individual, for if it's not permanent in one's life it was something other than salvation, because there is only one type of salvation--eternal salvation. If one could get out of eternal salvation then it wasn’t eternal, which is conflicting. It's the "eternal" aspect of salvation that gives its greatest value and definition, without which would be worthless and of no use.

The primary block in understanding that "the gift of God is eternal life" (Rom 6:23) isn't because one is not a believer but is due to being brought up in the Christian life under the error of thinking that the recipient of salvation owes God for it, which concept understandably results in the desire to somehow pay for it. But this leaves the believer in heresy, unaware of the meaning of "gift" (free). God’s grace endowed does not incur debt to Him, but to "one another" (Rom 13:8), which left unpaid is "as one that beateth the air."

Such is the example of the story of a man who gave someone a luxurious display cabinet as a gift and while he was leaving he happened to notice the person was about to apply sandpaper to it (because he felt obligated to do something for the gift), upon which he told the man, "There's nothing that needs to be done to the cabinet, because it is finished." (John 19:30).

Granted, Scripture contains words and phrases that reveal temporal situations which appear to be related to the possession of salvation but are rather those which are related to a false pursuit, but not the possession of salvation.

Every aspect of salvation can be known and used in the service of God, but remove its eternal element, which is its pinnacle aspect, then suddenly you have a fallen disposable structure of “wood, hay, and stubble” (heretical doctrine) instead of “gold, silver, and precious stones” (the Gospel of Christ).

-NC

Hello NetChaplain...

For starters i apologize for my english (because its not my native language) and i have never participated in an english forum or debate, nor I know the expressions used in the english translated bible but I will do my best to understand you all e to be understood by you all.

Well, about your post...

From what I could understand I liked it... you promote the grace of God as effective and definitive, and that is correct ...
Most of so called believers in the grace of god do not believe in hIs grace mas only in a law that they call "grace"... because they name it "grace" but they see it as "law" even if the simple word "grace" say it all!!
Because is it is by grace it is NOT works... but if it is by works we cannot call it grace.

Unfortunately nowadays covertly preaches that grace comes by works!
That way they use the truth to cover the lie and the law of works to get to the grace.

Fortunately it seems to me that you understand the difference between grace and law.

However the following sentence made me think...

If their lifestyle eventually evinces that God is not working His will in them, it confirms that regeneration has yet to occur.

What do you mean here?
Does life style (works) evinces the regeneration??? Is that what you mean?

 

[NetChaplain]

However the following sentence made me think...

If their lifestyle eventually evinces that God is not working His will in them, it confirms that regeneration has yet to occur.
What do you mean here?
Does life style (works) evinces the regeneration??? Is that what you mean?

Hi Sargento - Thanks for your reply and is easily understood. To me, a "lifestyle" consists of what one does and thinks most of the time, which will show in their life and is the evidence or fruit of a person. Concerning the confirmation of a lifestyle, I'm meaning that which is to the individual's determining of self, more than what others determine of the individual, that is, in his own conscience.