The difference between repentance and good deeds.

[Glow]

There are many people who believe that the way you get to heaven is by "doing good deeds"; such as reading the Bible and going to church every Sunday, and praying. The Bible clearly says that doing "good deeds" will not get you into heaven. "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags." (Isaiah 64:6)

Yet there is something that the Bible calls "repentance." Repentance is something that Jesus talked about, and He made it very clear that, "...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) And again, in Mark 1:15, John the baptist says, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Yet there are also these scriptures that seem to condemn doing the deeds of the law:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20)

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28)

So my topic is this:

What is the difference between repentance and doing good deeds? There are many people who believe that when someone talks of "repenting," that they are talking about legalism. I would like to have a clearer understanding so I can explain to those who question me. Can anyone offer a good explanation?

 

[will]

Sister, welcome to the forum

Reading the Bible is one key ingredient to answer your question.
However there are at least three ways how Christians 'read' the bible.

1. The first way is to treat the bible as a book of mantras. Memorize verses and recite them, rinse and repeat. Christians who chose this way depends on other human beings to feed them Spiritual things. Their knowledge and understanding (and subsequently, appreciation) of the bible never grow beyond what their denominations/pastors/teachers/bible study leader told them.

2. The second way is to treat the bible as a scholastic, academic book. Dissect it, debate it, collect the verses that supports your pre-formed ideas, and ready for the next forum to use it against those who "interpret" differently. Christians who chose this approach depends on his/her own intelligence to try to understand Spiritual things. An approach that the opposite of what is written in the bible for instance in 1 Cor. 2:11-14 which tells us that only the Spirit of God can make us understand God's mind.

3. The third way is to empty your mind. Read the bible as though you are consuming food daily. Then let the Holy Spirit (the Gift from God for every believers) open your understanding supernaturally. Think and ponder about what you read, but without any preconceptions and presumptions. In other words, a heart that is like an empty vessel, ready to be filled by the Holy Spirit. Then and only then you'll start growing Spiritually, not depending on any other human beings for Spiritual guidance, rather you'd be enabled (by God) to learn from *all* your fellow brothers and sisters as iron sharpens iron, but their authority will never replace that of God's own. Our Lord is the perfect example and model of this approach, at the age of 12 He is learning from the old testament scholars at the temple in Jerusalem, but we can be sure that He does not depend on them to tell Him about God's mission for Him on this earth. Only His unfathomably deep relationship with the Holy Spirit could have prepared Him for it.

Now, each of the above ways to read the Bible will have an answer for your questions. The real question is, which one do you think is more trustworthy? I think by following method no.3, you yourself will find the answer, the best answer, because it depends on God's understanding, not our own.

 

[DHC]

There are many people who believe that the way you get to heaven is by "doing good deeds"; such as reading the Bible and going to church every Sunday, and praying. The Bible clearly says that doing "good deeds" will not get you into heaven. "But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags." (Isaiah 64:6)

Yet there is something that the Bible calls "repentance." Repentance is something that Jesus talked about, and He made it very clear that, "...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3) And again, in Mark 1:15, John the baptist says, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Yet there are also these scriptures that seem to condemn doing the deeds of the law:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin." (Romans 3:20)

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." (Romans 3:28)

So my topic is this:

What is the difference between repentance and doing good deeds? There are many people who believe that when someone talks of "repenting," that they are talking about legalism. I would like to have a clearer understanding so I can explain to those who question me. Can anyone offer a good explanation?

Hello Glow, these are very good questions.

Entrance to the kingdom of God is not granted to the repentant or the
unrepentant. Admission is also not permitted to those who live a clean
and good life. Another way employed to enter the kingdom, is to
follow certain laws in a prescribed manner, an old and trusted method.
Which is also a futile path to follow. Please read on.

There is only one way to enter the kingdom of God, a way predetermined by God,
before the creation of the earth itself. Entry permits are only granted to those who
believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A full understanding of the power of the
Gospel to reconcile and grant life eternal is what the N.T reveals.

We are saved only by the shed blood of our Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary.
This is the premier doctrine and the foundation of the revelation given to us
in the N.T.

It is much easier to answer the question that this thread posted, after the
primary foundation of the Gospel is established.

So we now understand that repentance, good works or even the law are
not considered in the process of salvation itself. Salvation is a free gift
available to all, and only available through the belief in Jesus Christ.

Now "Legalism" is a term that describes an old methodology, that uses certain
Mosaic laws added to the Gospel to achieve salvation. Having established
the primary importance of the Gospel, the emptiness of this approach is readily
apparent. Rather, the convert to Christ is encouraged to live not by the law
but by the spirit, and to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

And what are the deeds of the flesh?

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions,
factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these,

These deeds are symptoms of an evil heart and the ten commandments are
inadequate to deal with such a vast range of misbehavior. Nor would a
repentance that would involve turning from the full spectrum of disobedience
be achievable by anyone. Our flesh is where these deeds are manifested, and
the Bible tells us to live by the spirit and not by the flesh.


Above all, you would be well advised to follow the path of love from a pure heart.

Following the path of love renders repentance, and the law redundant.
God is love beyond all other description, in love you are perfect in Christ.

Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and is the only true goal of the
Christian life. All Christian instruction leads to a pure love of all creation.
This is only ever possible by obedience to and interaction with the Holy Spirit.

Where God's love exists within the heart, the law and repentance are unnecessary.

Good works involve rewards for Christians and this not connected to the issue of salvation in Christ.

 

[judge not]

Hello Glow, these are very good questions.

Entrance to the kingdom of God is not granted to the repentant or the
unrepentant. Admission is also not permitted to those who live a clean
and good life. Another way employed to enter the kingdom, is to
follow certain laws in a prescribed manner, an old and trusted method.
Which is also a futile path to follow. Please read on.

There is only one way to enter the kingdom of God, a way predetermined by God,
before the creation of the earth itself. Entry permits are only granted to those who
believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A full understanding of the power of the
Gospel to reconcile and grant life eternal is what the N.T reveals.

We are saved only by the shed blood of our Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary.
This is the premier doctrine and the foundation of the revelation given to us
in the N.T.

It is much easier to answer the question that this thread posted, after the
primary foundation of the Gospel is established.

So we now understand that repentance, good works or even the law are
not considered in the process of salvation itself. Salvation is a free gift
available to all, and only available through the belief in Jesus Christ.

Now "Legalism" is a term that describes an old methodology, that uses certain
Mosaic laws added to the Gospel to achieve salvation. Having established
the primary importance of the Gospel, the emptiness of this approach is readily
apparent. Rather, the convert to Christ is encouraged to live not by the law
but by the spirit, and to put to death the deeds of the flesh.

And what are the deeds of the flesh?

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions,
factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these,

These deeds are symptoms of an evil heart and the ten commandments are
inadequate to deal with such a vast range of misbehavior. Nor would a
repentance that would involve turning from the full spectrum of disobedience
be achievable by anyone. Our flesh is where these deeds are manifested, and
the Bible tells us to live by the spirit and not by the flesh.


Above all, you would be well advised to follow the path of love from a pure heart.

Following the path of love renders repentance, and the law redundant.
God is love beyond all other description, in love you are perfect in Christ.

Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and is the only true goal of the
Christian life. All Christian instruction leads to a pure love of all creation.
This is only ever possible by obedience to and interaction with the Holy Spirit.

Where God's love exists within the heart, the law and repentance are unnecessary.

Good works involve rewards for Christians and this not connected to the issue of salvation in Christ.

We are justified by the death of Jesus Christ but we are not saved by His death. We are forgiven of sin by His sacrifice-by His shed blood but we are saved by His Life.

Repentance is more than just saying you're sorry-it's a change of mind and your lifestyle. A change that involves both turning from sin and a turning to God.

Repentance itself is one of the prerequisites for being saved-Salvation is a free gift of God and repentance is a term for acceptance of that free gift.

When the crowds asked Peter what shall we do to be saved Peter didn't say there is nothing you have to do-all you have to do is believe. Instead Peter said " Repent, and be baptized .....and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Act 2:38

Jesus said repent, otherwise you will perish, and in order to be saved you must keep His Commandments.

Just believing Jesus is our savior is not enough-we must do our part -repentance, baptism, works of righteousness and keeping God's commandments-this is the formula for salvation. It's a life long process.

 

[Barny]

What is the difference between repentance and doing good deeds? There are many people who believe that when someone talks of "repenting," that they are talking about legalism. I would like to have a clearer understanding so I can explain to those who question me. Can anyone offer a good explanation?

Hi Glow,

I'll be explaining repentance and good works/deeds in a very different context to what you may have heard of previously. Hopefully it will help.

What is mankind to repent of?

Answer: We repent of dead works of self-righteousness.

Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works

These were dead works of self-righteousness man did in rebellion against God.
But man's righteousness was as filthy rags. It was sin/unrighteousness, 1John 5:17.

Israel was an example to the world in that they had the law of righteousness. But they failed to attain righteousness. Why? Because they sought it by dead works of the law. Rom 9:31,32.
Through their dead works of the law they refused to submit to the righteousness of God, by faith, Rom 10:4.

Under the law they failed to keep the law perfectly and were therefore guilty of all the law, James 2:10. Their works of the law failed to make them righteous. Hence they were in sin/transgression of the law, 1John 3:4. Their works were dead works and sin.

When we repent and turn back to God we repent of dead works of self-righteousness/sin.
In believing in Jesus we submit to God's righteousness.

Repentance is a once only repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Regarding good works/deeds we should remember that works of the law are not good works/deeds (as you already stated). As scripture confirms, works of the law are dead works of self-righteousness/filthy rags.

So what are good works/deeds that believers do?
Jesus tells us that our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
These are good works, and is also obeying the will of God, John 6:40.

Christians therefore must avoid works of the law for righteousness. To turn back to the law makes you a sinner, Gal 2:18. To turn back to the law is to turn back to dead works.

 

[judge not]

Hi Glow,

I'll be explaining repentance and good works/deeds in a very different context to what you may have heard of previously. Hopefully it will help.

What is mankind to repent of?

Answer: We repent of dead works of self-righteousness.

Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works

These were dead works of self-righteousness man did in rebellion against God.
But man's righteousness was as filthy rags. It was sin/unrighteousness, 1John 5:17.

Israel was an example to the world in that they had the law of righteousness. But they failed to attain righteousness. Why? Because they sought it by dead works of the law. Rom 9:31,32.
Through their dead works of the law they refused to submit to the righteousness of God, by faith, Rom 10:4.

Under the law they failed to keep the law perfectly and were therefore guilty of all the law, James 2:10. Their works of the law failed to make them righteous. Hence they were in sin/transgression of the law, 1John 3:4. Their works were dead works and sin.

When we repent and turn back to God we repent of dead works of self-righteousness/sin.
In believing in Jesus we submit to God's righteousness.

Repentance is a once only repentance.
Heb 6:4-6
it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Regarding good works/deeds we should remember that works of the law are not good works/deeds (as you already stated). As scripture confirms, works of the law are dead works of self-righteousness/filthy rags.

So what are good works/deeds that believers do?
Jesus tells us that our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
These are good works, and is also obeying the will of God, John 6:40.

Christians therefore must avoid works of the law for righteousness. To turn back to the law makes you a sinner, Gal 2:18. To turn back to the law is to turn back to dead works.

Matt 7:21- We must keep the commandments to inherit the Kingdom of God by doing the will of God.

Obedience to the Ten Commandments is a prime requirement for salvation.that is why we must continue in the faith Col:1 21-23

Even though we are saved by God's grace and not by anything we do we must still walk in good works. Eph 2 :10

Matt 19:17 - Jesus said we must keep the commandments to receive eternal life-salvation.
He didn't say obedience to the law would earn eternal life He said it is required.

 

[Barny]

Matt 7:21- We must keep the commandments to inherit the Kingdom of God by doing the will of God.

Matt 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

And what is God's will?
John 6:40
this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day

As I said in my previous post, good works are to believe in Jesus. Jesus even said these are our works, John 6:29.

Obedience to the Ten Commandments is a prime requirement for salvation.that is why we must continue in the faith Col:1 21-23

Again we see another scripture that speaks of good works of believing in Jesus. And the wicked works it mentions are dead works of self-righteousness (trying to keep the law for righteousness).
Col 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works (dead works of self-righteousness through trying to keep the law), yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith (believing in Jesus. Our good works, John 6:29) grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

There is nothing about keeping the law/10 commandments as part of your salvation package, mentioned in this scripture.

Even though we are saved by God's grace and not by anything we do we must still walk in good works. Eph 2 :10

The good works Eph 2:10 speaks of is believing in Jesus.
Note how Eph 2:10 says we should walk in these good works. This is consistent with other scriptures which say we walk by faith and not by sight, 2Cor 5:7.

Note also Col 2:6
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
How did Christians receive Christ?
We received him by faith.
And so we continue to walk in him by faith, as Col 2:6 says.

It's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

If we start mixing grace with works of the law, then that is being lukewarm, Rev 3:15,16.
You cannot mix grace with works of the law,
Rom 11:6.
if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Matt 19:17 - Jesus said we must keep the commandments to receive eternal life-salvation.
He didn't say obedience to the law would earn eternal life He said it is required.

Lets consider the following verses for context.
Matt 19:20-21
The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Again we see here our good works are to follow (believe in) Jesus, and you will be perfect.

But if you do works of the law/10 commandments for righteousness, then you will lack, as these are dead works of self-righteousness.

 

[DHC]

We are justified by the death of Jesus Christ but we are not saved by His death. We are forgiven of sin by His sacrifice-by His shed blood but we are saved by His Life.

Repentance is more than just saying you're sorry-it's a change of mind and your lifestyle. A change that involves both turning from sin and a turning to God.

Hello Judge not.

These are your first two paragraphs Judge not. What you have stated is entirely incorrect, what you stated is in fact the other Gospel specified in Galatians 1:6.
Your Gospel is an elaborate mixture of the law and Christ which is claimed achieves salvation. The simple turn of phrases "turning from sin" and "turning to God"
which on the surface appears to have Biblical substance. Though when examined in the light of scripture is but a very subtle perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Mark 1:15
...repent and believe in the gospel.


Judge not specified that 'repent' means to turn from sin. So we will paraphrase
the quote above and see what judge not is really saying.


Mark 1:15 (paraphrased)
...turn from sin and believe in the Gospel.


If one was able to turn from sin, then one would have no need of Jesus. Seriously judge not, your definition is heresy, we are born into sin.
We are deeply opposed to God, at enmity with God, we crucified our God at Calvary judge not. Our fleshly nature cannot and will not ever change,
we as Christians have no confidence in our flesh! How on earth could a deeply corrupt creature turn against its own nature and then turn to Christ.
This is what you are claiming repentance means, to turn from sin, to turn from the flesh.

The simple definition of the word 'repent' is to have a change of mind. We look to Christ for our salvation after hearing the Gospel,
this is a change of thought. Not putting the cart before the horse and implying, that sin is to be dealt with first. I am amazed at the
gravity of this turn of phrase, the sheer audacity that claims the flesh can be dealt with. Turn from the flesh and turning to Jesus
is an impossible act to perform.

Judge not, your misunderstanding stems from your failure to understand what the 'flesh' means. The flesh as used in the scripture
describes the passions and desires of the heart, a preoccupation with self desire and the very love of the carnal world.
The opposite of the expression of love is the expression of self interest. How could you ever love anyone if you are obsessed with
stamping out your own putrid sin?

In the Bible you will not find the teaching that repentance is a life long process.

What is the life long process is the very faith in Christ, it is the endurance in the belief in Jesus Christ. We do not trust in our own efforts
judge not, we trust in Christ from the first day to the last day. It is Christ that saves us, Christ redeems, atones, and reconciles us. There
by the Grace of God go I. Not there by the grace of God and my own self righteous obedience to the law go I.

 

[DHC]

Matt 7:21- We must keep the commandments to inherit the Kingdom of God by doing the will of God.

Obedience to the Ten Commandments is a prime requirement for salvation.that is why we must continue in the faith Col:1 21-23

Even though we are saved by God's grace and not by anything we do we must still walk in good works. Eph 2 :10

Matt 19:17 - Jesus said we must keep the commandments to receive eternal life-salvation.
He didn't say obedience to the law would earn eternal life He said it is required.

Hello Judge not.

In these two quotes of yours above is the profound contradiction contained in the fabric of your theology.

At first you trumpet that you "We must keep the law", which means you are under the law judge not.
There is no separation between obedience to the law and being under the law.
Your two quotations are a hybrid of two distinct Biblical teachings, Legalism and Grace.
Legalism teaches that the law must be obeyed, failure to obey is death.
Grace is the unmerited acceptance of the sinner by God through Christ's reconciliation.

This theology is at heart, a hybrid of self righteousness and the righteousness of Christ, in order to gain salvation.
It is a system of theology which ignores the plain instruction of the scripture. A hybrid of a New Covenant and an
Old Covenant. A New Covenant established by Christ Himself and the obsolete Mosaic Covenant fused together.

Here is this Old Covenant judge not.

Deuteronomy 4:13
So He declared to you His Covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments;
and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

It is a legal Covenant between God and Israel, based on a legal performance.

Now what does the letter to the Hebrews say.

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, “A New Covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming
obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The Ten Commandments judge not are the Old Covenant, the quote from Deuteronomy
proves this. Beyond any doubt the Old Covenant was between God and Israel, not God
and the Gentiles. Judge not, the scriptures are silent regarding the Old Covenant and
the Gentiles. More to the point the scripture announces that we Gentiles are not under
the law in Christ, Acts 15 and 21. You have no room to swing the cat of legalism, scripture
demands only your obedience to the New Covenant. No Gentile could ever commit to the
slavery of the law, we Gentiles were never given the law.

We Gentiles belong to the New Covenant, not an amalgum of the Old and the New
Covenants. Not one line of the scripture says that Gentiles are under the law judge not!
You have been taught pure heresy judge not, a performance based adherence to
a list of laws from an obsolete covenant. You will tell people that they must obey the old
covenant, disobedience to the list of laws is death. Next, no doubt, you will be saying that
unless we become citizens of Israel and be circumcised we cannot be saved.

Context is king in the scriptures, read and understand the different Covenants judge not.

 

[judge not]

Matt 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

And what is God's will?
John 6:40
this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day

As I said in my previous post, good works are to believe in Jesus. Jesus even said these are our works, John 6:29.



Again we see another scripture that speaks of good works of believing in Jesus. And the wicked works it mentions are dead works of self-righteousness (trying to keep the law for righteousness).
Col 1:21-23
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works (dead works of self-righteousness through trying to keep the law), yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith (believing in Jesus. Our good works, John 6:29) grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

There is nothing about keeping the law/10 commandments as part of your salvation package, mentioned in this scripture.



The good works Eph 2:10 speaks of is believing in Jesus.
Note how Eph 2:10 says we should walk in these good works. This is consistent with other scriptures which say we walk by faith and not by sight, 2Cor 5:7.

Note also Col 2:6
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
How did Christians receive Christ?
We received him by faith.
And so we continue to walk in him by faith, as Col 2:6 says.

It's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

If we start mixing grace with works of the law, then that is being lukewarm, Rev 3:15,16.
You cannot mix grace with works of the law,
Rom 11:6.
if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.



Lets consider the following verses for context.
Matt 19:20-21
The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

Again we see here our good works are to follow (believe in) Jesus, and you will be perfect.

But if you do works of the law/10 commandments for righteousness, then you will lack, as these are dead works of self-righteousness.

When we say believe in Him does it simply mean to know Christ exists or is it a true relying trust and obedience to God.
John 14:15 - If you love me keep my commandments.
Does our responsibility go beyond just believing in Christ as our Savior.-obedience is required, this from the author of eternal salvation.Hebrews 5:8-9
Rev 22:12-14 show those who did His commandments are blessed.
Rev 14:12 show that the saints in the Kingdom of God are the one that kept His commandments.
1John 5:3 -The love of God is that we keep His commandments.
We demonstrate our belief in Jesus by obedience to His commandments.
Obedience provides the proof that we have faith by which we are saved.
Repentance is not a one time act-repentance is a process-it's a continuous chain of changes leading to spiritual maturity-it is a life of obedience.
But we are not perfect yet and repentance is our way of asking for God's forgiveness when we slip. 2 Cor 7:2
And baptism is part two of your way to salvation.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

In these two quotes of yours above is the profound contradiction contained in the fabric of your theology.

At first you trumpet that you "We must keep the law", which means you are under the law judge not.
There is no separation between obedience to the law and being under the law.
Your two quotations are a hybrid of two distinct Biblical teachings, Legalism and Grace.
Legalism teaches that the law must be obeyed, failure to obey is death.
Grace is the unmerited acceptance of the sinner by God through Christ's reconciliation.

This theology is at heart, a hybrid of self righteousness and the righteousness of Christ, in order to gain salvation.
It is a system of theology which ignores the plain instruction of the scripture. A hybrid of a New Covenant and an
Old Covenant. A New Covenant established by Christ Himself and the obsolete Mosaic Covenant fused together.

Here is this Old Covenant judge not.

Deuteronomy 4:13
So He declared to you His Covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments;
and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

It is a legal Covenant between God and Israel, based on a legal performance.

Now what does the letter to the Hebrews say.

Hebrews 8
13 In that He says, “A New Covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming
obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

The Ten Commandments judge not are the Old Covenant, the quote from Deuteronomy
proves this. Beyond any doubt the Old Covenant was between God and Israel, not God
and the Gentiles. Judge not, the scriptures are silent regarding the Old Covenant and
the Gentiles. More to the point the scripture announces that we Gentiles are not under
the law in Christ, Acts 15 and 21. You have no room to swing the cat of legalism, scripture
demands only your obedience to the New Covenant. No Gentile could ever commit to the
slavery of the law, we Gentiles were never given the law.

We Gentiles belong to the New Covenant, not an amalgum of the Old and the New
Covenants. Not one line of the scripture says that Gentiles are under the law judge not!
You have been taught pure heresy judge not, a performance based adherence to
a list of laws from an obsolete covenant. You will tell people that they must obey the old
covenant, disobedience to the list of laws is death. Next, no doubt, you will be saying that
unless we become citizens of Israel and be circumcised we cannot be saved.

Context is king in the scriptures, read and understand the different Covenants judge not.

It's not me saying these scriptures=it's Jesus, the sole authority of the Bible and it's writings.
It is not legalistic to obey God's Law.
Legalism usually applies to the strict traditions of men strictly for ceremonial sake.We don't want to be like the Pharisees Jesus warned.
If you do actions that violate the 10 Commandments you will not be saved Paul said under the New Covenant- 1 Cor 6:9-10
I know we are saved by God's grace but how do you apply God's laws which defines the standards of righteousness to your life?
If keeping the 10 Commandments is legalism then God's descriptions of His church and saints is wrong- " Here is the patience of the saints:here are they that keep the Commandments..." Rev 14:12
If anybody is legalistic it would be those that keep the commandments and traditions of men like easter and christmas.

 

[Barny]

When we say believe in Him does it simply mean to know Christ exists or is it a true relying trust and obedience to God.
John 14:15 - If you love me keep my commandments.
Does our responsibility go beyond just believing in Christ as our Savior.-obedience is required, this from the author of eternal salvation.Hebrews 5:8-9
Rev 22:12-14 show those who did His commandments are blessed.
Rev 14:12 show that the saints in the Kingdom of God are the one that kept His commandments.
1John 5:3 -The love of God is that we keep His commandments.
We demonstrate our belief in Jesus by obedience to His commandments.
Obedience provides the proof that we have faith by which we are saved.
Repentance is not a one time act-repentance is a process-it's a continuous chain of changes leading to spiritual maturity-it is a life of obedience.
But we are not perfect yet and repentance is our way of asking for God's forgiveness when we slip. 2 Cor 7:2
And baptism is part two of your way to salvation.

We seem to differ on what it is to believe in Jesus.
I see believing in Jesus to be submitting to the righteousness of God, Phil 3:9, Rom 10:3..
Thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Believing that Jesus is the Christ means we're born of God, 1John 5:1.
Believing in Jesus means we are sanctified (Heb 10:10), holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1John 3:9). This is all through the offering of the body of Christ.

But you see believing in Jesus as part of a package that requires works of the law. You doubt you are righteous/holy/sanctified/perfected until there is physical evidence of it. I can't recall exactly what the doctrine you follow states, but I've found that some argue for perfect obedience to the law whereas others argue for some lessor ambiguous level is enough.

But the fact remains that those who add works of the law to salvation all fail to attain perfect obedience to the law. And remember the law requires perfect obedience, James 2:10. Perfect obedience is what is meant by "keeping" the law.

However, we do see that Christians "keep" his commandments, as described in 1John 3:23.
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

You say repentance is not a one time act. But this contradicts Heb 6:4-6.
When a person repents of their dead works of self-righteousness/sin, turns back to God, believing in Jesus, then that's it. We do not go back to dead works of the law for righteousness.

The continual repenting of failings in behavior that you refer to is not consistent with the message in God's word. Note also that continual repenting of the same offense is not repentance. Repentance is to have such regret that you turn around from that offense you were doing. Clearly continual repentance, as you seem to be suggesting, is not repentance.

Regarding 2Cor 7:1-2, take note of it's context from the verses before. To cleanse yourself from the filthiness of the flesh is referring to be separate from those who continue to preach works of the law for righteousness, 2Cor 6:14-17. As DHC said, "context is king", hence we should always look to context instead of running with just one verse on it's own.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

These are your first two paragraphs Judge not. What you have stated is entirely incorrect, what you stated is in fact the other Gospel specified in Galatians 1:6.
Your Gospel is an elaborate mixture of the law and Christ which is claimed achieves salvation. The simple turn of phrases "turning from sin" and "turning to God"
which on the surface appears to have Biblical substance. Though when examined in the light of scripture is but a very subtle perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Mark 1:15
...repent and believe in the gospel.


Judge not specified that 'repent' means to turn from sin. So we will paraphrase
the quote above and see what judge not is really saying.


Mark 1:15 (paraphrased)
...turn from sin and believe in the Gospel.


If one was able to turn from sin, then one would have no need of Jesus. Seriously judge not, your definition is heresy, we are born into sin.
We are deeply opposed to God, at enmity with God, we crucified our God at Calvary judge not. Our fleshly nature cannot and will not ever change,
we as Christians have no confidence in our flesh! How on earth could a deeply corrupt creature turn against its own nature and then turn to Christ.
This is what you are claiming repentance means, to turn from sin, to turn from the flesh.

The simple definition of the word 'repent' is to have a change of mind. We look to Christ for our salvation after hearing the Gospel,
this is a change of thought. Not putting the cart before the horse and implying, that sin is to be dealt with first. I am amazed at the
gravity of this turn of phrase, the sheer audacity that claims the flesh can be dealt with. Turn from the flesh and turning to Jesus
is an impossible act to perform.

Judge not, your misunderstanding stems from your failure to understand what the 'flesh' means. The flesh as used in the scripture
describes the passions and desires of the heart, a preoccupation with self desire and the very love of the carnal world.
The opposite of the expression of love is the expression of self interest. How could you ever love anyone if you are obsessed with
stamping out your own putrid sin?

In the Bible you will not find the teaching that repentance is a life long process.

What is the life long process is the very faith in Christ, it is the endurance in the belief in Jesus Christ. We do not trust in our own efforts
judge not, we trust in Christ from the first day to the last day. It is Christ that saves us, Christ redeems, atones, and reconciles us. There
by the Grace of God go I. Not there by the grace of God and my own self righteous obedience to the law go I.

The phrase turn from sin and turn to God is an excerpt from the Expository Dictionary of NT words, page 953.
Negatively repentance means turning from sin defined by John as the transgression of the Law.
On the positive side repentance means turning to righteousness.
Doctrinal purity after repentance has to be maintained and is a life long struggle for converted Christians. Paul, Peter and John warned about false ministers, false doctrines, and even false brethren trying to deceive you into false doctrine. .
Repentance entails putting away the sinful activities defined by the Law and adopting the wholesome attitudes and behaviors of the blessed side of God's Law.

 

[DHC]

The phrase turn from sin and turn to God is an excerpt from the Expository Dictionary of NT words, page 953.
Negatively repentance means turning from sin defined by John as the transgression of the Law.
On the positive side repentance means turning to righteousness.
Doctrinal purity after repentance has to be maintained and is a life long struggle for converted Christians. Paul, Peter and John warned about false ministers, false doctrines, and even false brethren trying to deceive you into false doctrine. .
Repentance entails putting away the sinful activities defined by the Law and adopting the wholesome attitudes and behaviors of the blessed side of God's Law.

Hello Judge not.

If you would be kind enough to explain the following verses from Paul's letter to the Galatians.
I am curious to see how you understand these verses.

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

If you would be kind enough to explain the following verses from Paul's letter to the Galatians.
I am curious to see how you understand these verses.

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh;
for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Well Paul shows us that " walking in the Spirit of God " aligns us with the will of God, and by following that course we are not led to commit sin.
If we do not sin then we do not come under the penalty of sin -" under the law " He is talking about a life direction.not a weakness here or there but a pattern of behavior that manifests and is evidenced by these things some of which he lists here in verses 19, 20, 21 all violations against God's Law.
He shows that if they do these things they will be excluded from the Kingdom of God. It shows one could fall from grace and grace is not available to those who willfully sin.
And remember sin is the transgression of the ten commandments.

 

[DHC]

Well Paul shows us that " walking in the Spirit of God " aligns us with the will of God, and by following that course we are not led to commit sin.
If we do not sin then we do not come under the penalty of sin -" under the law " He is talking about a life direction.not a weakness here or there but a pattern of behavior that manifests and is evidenced by these things some of which he lists here in verses 19, 20, 21 all violations against God's Law.
He shows that if they do these things they will be excluded from the Kingdom of God. It shows one could fall from grace and grace is not available to those who willfully sin.
And remember sin is the transgression of the ten commandments.

Hello Judge not.

I am in agreement with the emphasis on lifestyle or even better a new life altogether.

What I did notice in your reply was that you placed emphasis on the ten commandments.

You said; "And remember sin is the transgression of the ten commandments."

Now we will check the first three deeds of the flesh in Paul's list, to verify that the ten commandments are the authorized list.

Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality...

What do you notice about these first three deeds or sinful behaviors judge not?

 

[judge not]

We seem to differ on what it is to believe in Jesus.
I see believing in Jesus to be submitting to the righteousness of God, Phil 3:9, Rom 10:3..
Thus our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
Believing that Jesus is the Christ means we're born of God, 1John 5:1.
Believing in Jesus means we are sanctified (Heb 10:10), holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14) and cannot sin (1John 3:9). This is all through the offering of the body of Christ.

But you see believing in Jesus as part of a package that requires works of the law. You doubt you are righteous/holy/sanctified/perfected until there is physical evidence of it. I can't recall exactly what the doctrine you follow states, but I've found that some argue for perfect obedience to the law whereas others argue for some lessor ambiguous level is enough.

But the fact remains that those who add works of the law to salvation all fail to attain perfect obedience to the law. And remember the law requires perfect obedience, James 2:10. Perfect obedience is what is meant by "keeping" the law.

However, we do see that Christians "keep" his commandments, as described in 1John 3:23.
we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

You say repentance is not a one time act. But this contradicts Heb 6:4-6.
When a person repents of their dead works of self-righteousness/sin, turns back to God, believing in Jesus, then that's it. We do not go back to dead works of the law for righteousness.

The continual repenting of failings in behavior that you refer to is not consistent with the message in God's word. Note also that continual repenting of the same offense is not repentance. Repentance is to have such regret that you turn around from that offense you were doing. Clearly continual repentance, as you seem to be suggesting, is not repentance.

Regarding 2Cor 7:1-2, take note of it's context from the verses before. To cleanse yourself from the filthiness of the flesh is referring to be separate from those who continue to preach works of the law for righteousness, 2Cor 6:14-17. As DHC said, "context is king", hence we should always look to context instead of running with just one verse on it's own.

Are you saying we cannot sin after conversion?
Paul wrote even though we are converted, under grace, our sin nature is still alive and well and dwelling within us-that includes everybody if you are human.Romans 7:21-23
The sense should be understood that a Christian will not remain in the practice of sin because we are empowered by the Holy Spirit and can call on the Spirit of God to help us lest we fall

 

[judge not]

Hello Judge not.

I am in agreement with the emphasis on lifestyle or even better a new life altogether.

What I did notice in your reply was that you placed emphasis on the ten commandments.

You said; "And remember sin is the transgression of the ten commandments."

Now we will check the first three deeds of the flesh in Paul's list, to verify that the ten commandments are the authorized list.

Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality...

What do you notice about these first three deeds or sinful behaviors judge not?

Besides being fruits of a carnal mind?
These three are addressed in the Ten Commandments-parts of the last six commandments, primarily the 7th.
These things are evidence of a person who is not following God's lead but living a carnal life.

I'm only on the computer once or twice a day so my response time is a little slower than most- sorry.
JN

 

[Barny]

Are you saying we cannot sin after conversion?

Actually, it's God who says that.
1John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1Pet 4:1
since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin,

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

What "sin" can be charged against a Christian? We've been justified by God.
We cannot be charged with transgression of the law (1John 3:4), as we're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
We cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17), as we are righteous. Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We cannot be charged with the sin of unbelief in Jesus (John 16:9),as we do believe in Jesus. We do not turned back to the law for righteousness, which is unbelief.

Paul wrote even though we are converted, under grace, our sin nature is still alive and well and dwelling within us-that includes everybody if you are human.Romans 7:21-23

Rom 7 speaks of the battle within us for who has control. The flesh or the Spirit.
Note Rom 7:24-25
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (spirit, Eph 4:23) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we're in the Spirit (that is we believe in Jesus), then we serve the law of God. It's Christ, our inward man, who did this. And our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

But, if we're in the flesh (unbelief in Jesus, thus trying to prove righteousness under the law), then we're serving the law of sin.

Note Rom 8:9 speaking about which position Christians are in.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,

And if we continue to believe in Jesus then we remain in the Spirit. Hence we see many warnings in scripture against turning back to the law/unbelief. That is turning back to walking in the flesh.

The sense should be understood that a Christian will not remain in the practice of sin because we are empowered by the Holy Spirit and can call on the Spirit of God to help us lest we fall

The terms "practice" or "habitual" sin are ambiguous and misleading.
The law requires perfect obedience. This is what is meant by keeping the law. Just one offense makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10

Doctrines that claim Christians do not "practice" or "habitually" sin are not supported in scripture. I have asked many what is meant by "practice" or "habitual" sin, and none have been able to give any scripture giving detail of what this is.

I do however see where your coming from though.
Your focus is on physical behavior, and the doctrine you follow determines righteousness by how good a lifestyle we live as Christians.
But such doctrines are incorrect.

Regarding our behavior/lifestyle, we often do see this improve for Christians. But the physical is far from perfect. And we will not profit when we do wrong. Consider King David with his adultery and murder. God disciplined him.

But our physical failings are not "sin" that can be charged against us.
Remember Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Our body's are already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10.
Christians are now a new creation in Christ, 2Cor 5:17.
Henceforth we do not regard anyone or our selves according to the flesh, 2Cor 5:16.

 

[judge not]

Actually, it's God who says that.
1John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1Pet 4:1
since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin,

Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

What "sin" can be charged against a Christian? We've been justified by God.
We cannot be charged with transgression of the law (1John 3:4), as we're not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
We cannot be charged with the sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17), as we are righteous. Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We cannot be charged with the sin of unbelief in Jesus (John 16:9),as we do believe in Jesus. We do not turned back to the law for righteousness, which is unbelief.




Rom 7 speaks of the battle within us for who has control. The flesh or the Spirit.
Note Rom 7:24-25
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (spirit, Eph 4:23) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we're in the Spirit (that is we believe in Jesus), then we serve the law of God. It's Christ, our inward man, who did this. And our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

But, if we're in the flesh (unbelief in Jesus, thus trying to prove righteousness under the law), then we're serving the law of sin.

Note Rom 8:9 speaking about which position Christians are in.
you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,

And if we continue to believe in Jesus then we remain in the Spirit. Hence we see many warnings in scripture against turning back to the law/unbelief. That is turning back to walking in the flesh.




The terms "practice" or "habitual" sin are ambiguous and misleading.
The law requires perfect obedience. This is what is meant by keeping the law. Just one offense makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10

Doctrines that claim Christians do not "practice" or "habitually" sin are not supported in scripture. I have asked many what is meant by "practice" or "habitual" sin, and none have been able to give any scripture giving detail of what this is.

I do however see where your coming from though.
Your focus is on physical behavior, and the doctrine you follow determines righteousness by how good a lifestyle we live as Christians.
But such doctrines are incorrect.

Regarding our behavior/lifestyle, we often do see this improve for Christians. But the physical is far from perfect. And we will not profit when we do wrong. Consider King David with his adultery and murder. God disciplined him.

But our physical failings are not "sin" that can be charged against us.
Remember Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Our body's are already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10.Christians are now a new creation in Christ, 2Cor 5:17.Henceforth we do not regard anyone or our selves according to the flesh, 2Cor 5:16.

In Rev 2:26-28 - Jesus says " To him who overcomes and does my will TO THE END. I will give authority over the nations...."
Overcoming what? The struggle against the power of sin over us while we are in the flesh -overcoming is a constant battle not a one time event that frees us from sin even with the help of God's spirit.

Paul struggled with his weaknesses daily while still in the flesh Rom 7:18-19

The fight against sin is a constant day in and day out battle but we overcome by drawing on the HS -2 Cor 4:16

Again in Romans 7, verse 21 Paul describes the struggle against sin with his new godly nature versus his fleshly corrupt nature.

Is it possible for Christians to sin?
It is not only possible, but it is highly likely.
Can anyone claim they have never sinned since becoming a converted Christian?
We are still babes in Christ not yet born of God

It's not all over when you begin a Christian life-it's just beginning.
The New Testament is filled with a series of constant reminders of the ways Satan tempts the faith of Christian people.
There are more warnings against false prophets and teachings than I have space here for.
If there were no reasons why we should fear sinning why do we have to put on the good fight-1Tim 6:12