WHO has the power

[ushalk]

I have heard some far out teachings in my life. But the teaching i am about to share are totally taking Christ out of power. These teachings are from several church leaders around the nation. I have not heard it from many, if a lie is told long enough and enough times, it becomes true in the hearts of many. So here we go. While ministering the word of God, you will not be heard unless:

You have a degree.

You have money.

You have a card in your wallet that states you are an ordained minister.

You ware a suit.

You own your own home.

You have a nice car.

You are considered good looking.

Where in the Bible does it state that we are heard rather than the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[james1523]

Another one I have heard is "God cannot use a poor person" or "God cannot use a poor church".

One way to tell if a church or minister is of Christ or not, is see how many in their congregation are poor, homeless, sinners, and then you get a sense of where their heart is at. Christ always attracted the poor and destitute, being known as a "friend of sinners".

If a minister of Christ cannot be known as a friend of sinners, but rather a friend of outstanding citizens and wealthy people, how can they be a friend of Christ?

 

[ushalk]

Another one I have heard is "God cannot use a poor person" or "God cannot use a poor church".

One way to tell if a church or minister is of Christ or not, is see how many in their congregation are poor, homeless, sinners, and then you get a sense of where their heart is at. Christ always attracted the poor and destitute, being known as a "friend of sinners".

If a minister of Christ cannot be known as a friend of sinners, but rather a friend of outstanding citizens and wealthy people, how can they be a friend of Christ?

you are so right on this james. but this is the turn that "christianity" is taking. nothing about the true power of christ and all about the so c alled power of man. when is this nation and the so called churches going to become about christ and his glory.

 

[farout]

I have heard some far out teachings in my life. But the teaching i am about to share are totally taking Christ out of power. These teachings are from several church leaders around the nation. I have not heard it from many, if a lie is told long enough and enough times, it becomes true in the hearts of many. So here we go. While ministering the word of God, you will not be heard unless:

You have a degree.

You have money.

You have a card in your wallet that states you are an ordained minister.

You ware a suit.

You own your own home.

You have a nice car.

You are considered good looking.

Where in the Bible does it state that we are heard rather than the Holy Spirit of God.

ushalk: Well my friend I sure don't measure up to well by these standards ! Maybe add to the list, carries an offering plate, has seed pledge cards with him at all times, took all his degree classes by mail, has a nice car (someone else loand him. never stays in one place longer than 6 weeks, Good looking (as long as his hair piece stays place).

When any church is looking for a Pastor here is some good advice ! Call the school he has been to, even if he did not graduate. Check out the references, most churches don't ! Have the preacher speak more that one Sunday morning and evening, how can you tell by 2 sermons ? Ask to see the Bible he uses, this can tell you much more than his words can speak. Ask him to go visiting some elderly folks and just watch if he can relate to lonley people.

On the future pastor's side, deal with only one person at a time.

ushalk, it's just as hard for the future pastor to really see the members know how to love, respect and really wants a pastor. Does this give you something to think about ?

 

[ushalk]

ushalk: Well my friend I sure don't measure up to well by these standards ! Maybe add to the list, carries an offering plate, has seed pledge cards with him at all times, took all his degree classes by mail, has a nice car (someone else loand him. never stays in one place longer than 6 weeks, Good looking (as long as his hair piece stays place).

When any church is looking for a Pastor here is some good advice ! Call the school he has been to, even if he did not graduate. Check out the references, most churches don't ! Have the preacher speak more that one Sunday morning and evening, how can you tell by 2 sermons ? Ask to see the Bible he uses, this can tell you much more than his words can speak. Ask him to go visiting some elderly folks and just watch if he can relate to lonley people.

On the future pastor's side, deal with only one person at a time.

ushalk, it's just as hard for the future pastor to really see the members know how to love, respect and really wants a pastor. Does this give you something to think about ?

that is some great advice far out. i cant live up to those either. thank you for sharing.

 

[sintheticg]

a lot of people mistake a good looking life for having your spiritual life in order. in timothy a minister is to be the leader of his house, i dont see anything about income.

there are a lot of preachers who are amazing business men, my first "church" for instance, the pastor admittedly pulled in about 60k a year from the congregation, a decent middle class income for a family of 4. but on top of this, the church bought his house with the "pastoral housing allowance" and also his 2 vehicles with the "pastoral vehicle allowance" both of which were in the expenditures as seperate accounts from his net income on the complex budget sheet during the business meeting. The beauty in doing it this way is that his house and vehicles are now religious property, he does not need to pay property taxes. He also had a "company" provided cell phone of course, for ministering purposes. (just dont ask him to call homeless folks in the hospital) So he's making 60k a year but his only bills are his personal electricity, gas, and sewage bills + food and gas, (most of which can be written off at the end of the year since buying food for people and driving is part of his job) Now we can imagine it's fairly easy for one with this net income to tithe, the beauty being every time he places money in the plate, he's receiving it in his paycheck the next month. I imagine it's pretty easy to preach tithing when your tithe is simple a 30 day "loan" to the "church".

Now the fun begins, start giving financial advice to the non tithers, start by entering their social security number "just to identify them later" into your financial program, the get them to "confess" their income and expenditures to you. "council" them to make budget cuts, you dont need 3 meals a day brother, your a bit chubby, 2 would be good for you, lest ye be a gluten. Now you can tithe!!! The heavens are rejoicing at your obedience. Now brother, tithing is just the bare minimum, you should be giving at least 5% above an beyond. no brother, stop reading the bible in context, the tithe rebuke in malachi wasnt just to the priests who were robbing God, it's too all you struggling sinners to pay for my fishing trip, how can i minister to a church and not have an anual fishing trip to renew my mind and talk to God? How can I plan an entire years worth of sermons based on 1 topical verse without my week on the river? Good job brother, God will surely bless you for your obedience...

 

[ushalk]

a lot of people mistake a good looking life for having your spiritual life in order. in timothy a minister is to be the leader of his house, i dont see anything about income.

there are a lot of preachers who are amazing business men, my first "church" for instance, the pastor admittedly pulled in about 60k a year from the congregation, a decent middle class income for a family of 4. but on top of this, the church bought his house with the "pastoral housing allowance" and also his 2 vehicles with the "pastoral vehicle allowance" both of which were in the expenditures as seperate accounts from his net income on the complex budget sheet during the business meeting. The beauty in doing it this way is that his house and vehicles are now religious property, he does not need to pay property taxes. He also had a "company" provided cell phone of course, for ministering purposes. (just dont ask him to call homeless folks in the hospital) So he's making 60k a year but his only bills are his personal electricity, gas, and sewage bills + food and gas, (most of which can be written off at the end of the year since buying food for people and driving is part of his job) Now we can imagine it's fairly easy for one with this net income to tithe, the beauty being every time he places money in the plate, he's receiving it in his paycheck the next month. I imagine it's pretty easy to preach tithing when your tithe is simple a 30 day "loan" to the "church".

Now the fun begins, start giving financial advice to the non tithers, start by entering their social security number "just to identify them later" into your financial program, the get them to "confess" their income and expenditures to you. "council" them to make budget cuts, you dont need 3 meals a day brother, your a bit chubby, 2 would be good for you, lest ye be a gluten. Now you can tithe!!! The heavens are rejoicing at your obedience. Now brother, tithing is just the bare minimum, you should be giving at least 5% above an beyond. no brother, stop reading the bible in context, the tithe rebuke in malachi wasnt just to the priests who were robbing God, it's too all you struggling sinners to pay for my fishing trip, how can i minister to a church and not have an anual fishing trip to renew my mind and talk to God? How can I plan an entire years worth of sermons based on 1 topical verse without my week on the river? Good job brother, God will surely bless you for your obedience...

Wow, isnt it amazing how great of businessmen many pastors are. But even more amazing how they do not know anything about Christ.

 

[judge not]

You can find what qualities are necessary to be a minister in God's church and what you as a pastor are bound by this duty to perform, in:

1 Timothy chapter 3, and chapter 4.

How many church leaders fit these requirements?

 

[ushalk]

You can find what qualities are necessary to be a minister in God's church and what you as a pastor are bound by this duty to perform, in:

1 Timothy chapter 3, and chapter 4.

How many church leaders fit these requirements?

not very many out of the many that i have met or dealt with.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

The Man of Lawlessness

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Be an example to all believers in what you teach, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity.
1 Timothy 4:12

Things haven't changed much over the years. I was reading an old passage today about church leaders , written in 1662 by Thomas Brooks.
This is a snippet I thought I'd share on this thread

How many (ministers) are there in these days, who are more ready and willing to make a sacrifice of the gospel—
for profit sake,
and preferment sake,
and honor sake,
and lust's sake!

Pastors!
Either preach as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to preach:
plainly,
spiritually,
powerfully,
feelingly,
fervently,
frequently;
And live as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to live:
heavenly,
graciously,
holily,
humbly,
righteously,
harmlessly,
exemplary

Or else lay down your names of being the ministers of Jesus Christ.
Do not any longer put a cheat upon yourselves, nor upon the people—by making them believe that you are ministers of Jesus Christ, when you have:
nothing of the spirit of Christ,
nor of the anointings of Christ,
nor of the grace of Christ,
nor of the life of Christ in you.

Thomas Brooks 1662

 

[farout]

Wow, isnt it amazing how great of businessmen many pastors are. But even more amazing how they do not know anything about Christ.

ushalk: That's not a fai call brother ! Be more specific, who or what kind of pastors are you talking about. Most Baptist pastors I know are not good in business at all. It would be a sin for them to give business advice. But more important I believe there are may soild Bible preachers that know the Bible very well. Blessings.

farout

 

[ushalk]

ushalk: That's not a fai call brother ! Be more specific, who or what kind of pastors are you talking about. Most Baptist pastors I know are not good in business at all. It would be a sin for them to give business advice. But more important I believe there are may soild Bible preachers that know the Bible very well. Blessings.

farout

there are pastors in all denominations that are like that. this is the key, all pastors read a few verses out of the bible and preach on them. that does not mean that they are preaching the truth though. i just went to a church called the way a couple of weeks ago. they not only profained the word of god they were making it alright to live in fornication and adultry
too bring people into their church. if churches need government assistance and 501c3 plans they are businesses and do not put faith in christ to take care of their need. therefore their pastors are good businessmen.

 

[ushalk]

Be an example to all believers in what you teach, in the way you live, in your love, your faith, and your purity.
1 Timothy 4:12

Things haven't changed much over the years. I was reading an old passage today about church leaders , written in 1662 by Thomas Brooks.
This is a snippet I thought I'd share on this thread

How many (ministers) are there in these days, who are more ready and willing to make a sacrifice of the gospel—
for profit sake,
and preferment sake,
and honor sake,
and lust's sake!

Pastors!
Either preach as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to preach:
plainly,
spiritually,
powerfully,
feelingly,
fervently,
frequently;
And live as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to live:
heavenly,
graciously,
holily,
humbly,
righteously,
harmlessly,
exemplary

Or else lay down your names of being the ministers of Jesus Christ.
Do not any longer put a cheat upon yourselves, nor upon the people—by making them believe that you are ministers of Jesus Christ, when you have:
nothing of the spirit of Christ,
nor of the anointings of Christ,
nor of the grace of Christ,
nor of the life of Christ in you.

Thomas Brooks 1662

i think more people need to read this book. i am going to try to find it myself. you are right, though since the roman catholic church started their business (and that is all they are) many have made christ a way for profit instead of the way to the father.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

i think more people need to read this book. i am going to try to find it myself. you are right, though since the roman catholic church started their business (and that is all they are) many have made christ a way for profit instead of the way to the father.

@ushalk

Thomas Brooks was an English puritan preacher (1608-1680), and his works are well worth reading.

He loved the Lord and disdained the worldliness of the established church.

If you do read any of his books and the history of that era.....you will find that things haven't really changed that much at all with regard to 'self and selfish motives' taking over the 'church'

 

[ushalk]

@ushalk

Thomas Brooks was an English puritan preacher (1608-1680), and his works are well worth reading.

He loved the Lord and disdained the worldliness of the established church.

If you do read any of his books and the history of that era.....you will find that things haven't really changed that much at all with regard to 'self and selfish motives' taking over the 'church'

unfortunately, i have to agree with you. the established church of today is really messed up. the more i read the bible the more i see so much error in churches across america.

 

[Chad]

@ushalk

All I can say is, they say gibberish.

Let the Bible speak for itself.

Matthew 24:24
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

 

[Hekuran]

OK. I see the dangers.
In my work I meet quite a lot of pastors. In my experience the temptation to influence and recognition is more powerful than greed for material possession.
But the vast, vast majority are humble servants of God - with many faults, yes, but also a deep desire to live out God's calling, and a willingness to make the sacrifices that go with it. I know of very few who have become wealthy through their ministry.
It's right to call out those who are making the system work for their own benefit, but I would not want to support a blanket statement about all pastors today being like this. Most are not.
Better to pray for, support and build up our own leaders in their work.
And of course we'll be judged by the standards that we use.