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The Saint and the Sinner

NetChaplain

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Aug 9, 2012
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Apostle John seems to have an appearance (but not apparent of course) of contradiction between his first and third epistles. In my opinion, a seemingly-apparent contradiction may be one of the means by which God hides His Word from the natural man (Matt 13:11, 13-17).

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8); “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9).

To have the sin nature (“old man”) is to have sin within, which complies with 1:8. In 3:9, “His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,” can refer to John in his “new man” meaning Christ’s seed or if you will, His “divine nature,” of which we are ”partakers” (2 Pet 1:4). This can collate with Paul’s claim in Romans 7:17, 20, that “it is no longer I who do it,” meaning he in his new man is not participating, but rather the wrong being done is by the “sin that dwells in me.”

I believe there is also a need to point out that what Scripture defines as a “sinner” is not synonymous with the traditional comprehension among Christians. If you use a Bible concordance for the word “sinner,” you will not find a scriptural reference indicating one who is in God, with the exception of Paul’s, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief” (Tim 1:15), which I will shortly explain.

Though Christians still sin, it does not mean they are still referred to as “sinners” by scriptural definition.

The reason scripture never refers to the saved as a “sinner’ is because, as J Gill explains it, “He does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it.” I also believe this answers to, “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9), e.g. our course of life is no longer controlled by the old man but, “by His Spirit in the inner man (new man).

My explanation for Paul’s claim of being chief of sinners lies within the two words “I am,” which is Strong’s Greek word “eimi,” which can intend “was” or “have been.” Strong’s translates G1510 in the following manner: I am (with G1473) (74x), am (55x), it is I (with G1473) (6x), be (2x), I was (with G1473) (1x), have been (1x).

As always, the definitions which apply are the terms to be used in the context of the passage and therefore rendering a paraphrase of “I was chief.”

Let it be known that this article in no way implies a sinless state of the believer (though guiltless), nor that he no longer sins, though sinning is no longer a major factor in the believer’s life and if it evinces otherwise one should, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Cor 13:5).

May we always remind ourselves that, “Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound” (Rom 5:20).
 
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Apostle John seems to have an appearance (but not apparent of course) of contradiction between his first and third epistles. In my opinion, a seemingly-apparent contradiction may be one of the means by which God hides His Word from the natural man (Matt 13:11, 13-17).

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8); “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9).

To have the sin nature (“old man”) is to have sin within, which complies with 1:8. In 3:9, “His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,” can refer to John in his “new man” meaning Christ’s seed or if you will, His “divine nature,” of which we are ”partakers” (2 Pet 1:4). This can collate with Paul’s claim in Romans 7:17, 20, that “it is no longer I who do it,” meaning he in his new man is not participating, but rather the wrong being done is by the “sin that dwells in me.”

I believe there is also a need to point out that what Scripture defines as a “sinner” is not synonymous with the traditional comprehension among Christians. If you use a Bible concordance for the word “sinner,” you will not find a scriptural reference indicating one who is in God, with the exception of Paul’s, “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief” (Tim 1:15), which I will shortly explain.

Though Christians still sin, it does not mean they are still referred to as “sinners” by scriptural definition.

The reason scripture never refers to the saved as a “sinner’ is because, as J Gill explains it, “He does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it.” I also believe this answers to, “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit” (Rom 8:9), e.g. our course of life is no longer controlled by the old man but, “by His Spirit in the inner man (new man).

My explanation for Paul’s claim of being chief of sinners lies within the two words “I am,” which is Strong’s Greek word “eimi,” which can intend “was” or “have been.” Strong’s translates G1510 in the following manner: I am (with G1473) (74x), am (55x), it is I (with G1473) (6x), be (2x), I was (with G1473) (1x), have been (1x).

As always, the definitions which apply are the terms to be used in the context of the passage and therefore rendering a paraphrase of “I was chief.”

Let it be known that this article in no way implies a sinless state of the believer (though guiltless), nor that he no longer sins, though sinning is no longer a major factor in the believer’s life and if it evinces otherwise one should, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Cor 13:5).

May we always remind ourselves that, “Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound” (Rom 5:20).

Hello NetChaplain.

May I ask your opinion of this verse?

Romans 8
12 Therefore, brethren,
we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
 
Apostle John seems to have an appearance (but not apparent of course) of contradiction between his first and third epistles. In my opinion, a seemingly-apparent contradiction may be one of the means by which God hides His Word from the natural man (Matt 13:11, 13-17).

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8); “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9)..

This verse in 1John refers to non-believers. Note the context of 1John 1 from it's beginning. It "bears witness", "declares", "eternal life", so that others "may have fellowship....with the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ".

But if you insist it speaks to Christians, then what definition, from scripture, do you apply to this alleged "sin" that Christians do?

And yes, the claim that 1John 1:8 refers to Christians is a contradiction to 1John 3:6-9

To have the sin nature (“old man”) is to have sin within, which complies with 1:8. In 3:9, “His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin,” can refer to John in his “new man” meaning Christ’s seed or if you will, His “divine nature,” of which we are ”partakers” (2 Pet 1:4). This can collate with Paul’s claim in Romans 7:17, 20, that “it is no longer I who do it,” meaning he in his new man is not participating, but rather the wrong being done is by the “sin that dwells in me.”

But Christians do not have a "sin nature" (as the NIV puts it). The KJV describes this as the "flesh".
Rom 8:9 confirms that we are not in the flesh. We are in the Spirit, instead.
As for Rom 7:17,20 this speaks of mankind's battle flesh v's Spirit, before being delivered by Christ, Rom 7:24,25.

My explanation for Paul’s claim of being chief of sinners lies within the two words “I am,” which is Strong’s Greek word “eimi,” which can intend “was” or “have been.” Strong’s translates G1510 in the following manner: I am (with G1473) (74x), am (55x), it is I (with G1473) (6x), be (2x), I was (with G1473) (1x), have been (1x).

As always, the definitions which apply are the terms to be used in the context of the passage and therefore rendering a paraphrase of “I was chief.” .

Correct, Paul was referring to his PAST in saying that he was chief sinner. If we read the verses before 1Tim 1:15 we'll see reference to his past as a blasphemer and injurious person. But after receiving Christ, Paul is no longer a blasphemer, etc. So clearly he referred to his past, in 1Tim 1:15
 
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Yes the bible never refers to Christians as sinners.... sinners means unbelievers. In regeneration God changed our sinful nature into the nature of Christ by His Spirit. All Christians have the new nature of Christ made in God's image, not the nature of sin. Barny is correct in that the sin nature is different from the flesh. The flesh is that part of us that inherited evil by our natural birth because of the fall of Adam and Eve and for this reason evil troubles us from the flesh. But our inward nature is not sin nature but God's nature as we are born of God.. we are sons of God. But the flesh lusts against spirit because 1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. Bible says do not love the world.. this is choice we must make. Do not love the world means do not love the things that we lust after in the flesh. So we have choice to follow flesh or follow spirit. But our inward nature is not sinner but son of God.... we are born of God. If we are sinner then by nature our nature is to sin, we cannot help it..this is default condition... but because we have God's nature we cannot sin (continually, remain in sin).. our default position is to please God and live and walk in the Spirit. If you try to live and remain in sin you cannot do it.. Your nature made in God's image doesn't allow it, maybe you fall once or twice (sin) but then you confess/repent and get back up again.. Sinner is not like this.. sinner will sin and then remain in that sin for a long time. Also many think we are adopted sons of God.. only adopted.. we are not adopted.. we are actually sons of God.. we are adopted from judicial sense.. but in reality we are truly born of God.. an adopted child only carries no biology , DNA (seed) of the mother/father.. but Christians have the very nature of God in them, the seed of God...we have God's DNA. So many think we are just adopted and God treats us as if we are sons but actually we are not. just sinners saved by grace.. but this is not correct.. we are truly carry God's DNA and are actually sons of God.
 
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If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8); “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9).

That easy to see ! Our flesh part is a Sinner !
our spirit part once born of GOD perfect SEED is Not a sinner !

We must know When He talking about our flesh or our Spirit ?

When it about HIS SPirit or our Spirit ?

after all , we are three parts but only One being like He is !
We are a Spirit dwelling in a flesh body and we all have a mind Soul !

Our New creature [New spirit ] has it Own mind after salvation that is nothing like our flesh mind !

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Our New Spirit has this type mind ! our flesh still has the same old flesh mind ! We need to fill it with GOD living words !

Rom_15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The one mind is the mind of Christ jesus we have ! Our spirit will Always being in agreement with our father God and all others using there spirit mind !


Our flesh body has the sin nature just as our old man ,our old spirit did ! but it dead after Salvation it Gone forever more ! It Nailed to HIS cross !We are Given a New spirit that cannot sin !
But our flesh has not been perfected and never will !
That why we die daily to our flesh ! Not allowing it to Sin . It like sinning ! We our new Creature [spirit] hates Sinning !

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:Our flesh is a Sinner 1There is Nothing good in it !!!

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

The I is HIS SPIRIT MAN ! He saying if He does something He counts bad or evil it Not Him that doing it ! Him being HIS SPIRIt ! it is His flesh mind and body doing it !


Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

You see Paul had God Word strong in His mind ! still His flesh wanted to sin !

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
He saying here His flesh is evil and He wants out of the body He cannot fully control ! He hates the fact He cannot live 100% perfect in this body ! Just as we hate it when we sin ! We too feel bad when we do anything we know is sin or wrong ?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

That is NOT saying with his body He doing evil things HE NOT ! just saying the body is sin full !
Renewing our mind is filling our flesh mind with GOD living Life giving Words !

We are all in a battle 1 the battles in our flesh mind ! we are fighting fallen angels we cannot see normally 1 and our flesh to some degree ? It does not want to serve God it wants to serve it self ! That why many are in bondage to eating or drinking or Lots of other stuff 1 but He has declared us all More than Conquerors and Overcomers at salvation ! We can win !Because the Lord already won the war for US ! But He lets us fight these little battles !
 
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8); “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9).

That easy to see ! Our flesh part is a Sinner !
our spirit part once born of GOD perfect SEED is Not a sinner !

We must know When He talking about our flesh or our Spirit ?

When it about HIS SPirit or our Spirit ?

after all , we are three parts but only One being like He is !
We are a Spirit dwelling in a flesh body and we all have a mind Soul !

Our New creature [New spirit ] has it Own mind after salvation that is nothing like our flesh mind !

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Our New Spirit has this type mind ! our flesh still has the same old flesh mind ! We need to fill it with GOD living words !

Rom_15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The one mind is the mind of Christ jesus we have ! Our spirit will Always being in agreement with our father God and all others using there spirit mind !


Our flesh body has the sin nature just as our old man ,our old spirit did ! but it dead after Salvation it Gone forever more ! It Nailed to HIS cross !We are Given a New spirit that cannot sin !
But our flesh has not been perfected and never will !
That why we die daily to our flesh ! Not allowing it to Sin . It like sinning ! We our new Creature [spirit] hates Sinning !

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:Our flesh is a Sinner 1There is Nothing good in it !!!

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

The I is HIS SPIRIT MAN ! He saying if He does something He counts bad or evil it Not Him that doing it ! Him being HIS SPIRIt ! it is His flesh mind and body doing it !


Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

You see Paul had God Word strong in His mind ! still His flesh wanted to sin !

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
He saying here His flesh is evil and He wants out of the body He cannot fully control ! He hates the fact He cannot live 100% perfect in this body ! Just as we hate it when we sin ! We too feel bad when we do anything we know is sin or wrong ?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

That is NOT saying with his body He doing evil things HE NOT ! just saying the body is sin full !
Renewing our mind is filling our flesh mind with GOD living Life giving Words !

We are all in a battle 1 the battles in our flesh mind ! we are fighting fallen angels we cannot see normally 1 and our flesh to some degree ? It does not want to serve God it wants to serve it self ! That why many are in bondage to eating or drinking or Lots of other stuff 1 but He has declared us all More than Conquerors and Overcomers at salvation ! We can win !Because the Lord already won the war for US ! But He lets us fight these little battles !

Amen brother!

What you wrote essentially sums up the difference between the carnal mind
and the mind of Christ. One mind is powered by the Holy Spirit and the other
is controlled by the flesh.


1 Corinthians 2:16

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
“Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God” (1 John 3:9).

That is my favorite word in all of Scripture. The new birth is where it all begins....the Holy Spirit goes right to the heart of us...and gives us a new heart ...filled with desire for the goodness of Himself....the new born babes eyes are opened...and suddenly finds the lustful desires his old self were so drawn to have lost their glitter and appeal... and thus the new growth in grace and knowledge begins...

The distinction between the saint and the sinner can only be the Spirit of God...tho flesh will always war against His Spirit within us as long as we live in these bodies...and it is evident in all of us that the habits of the flesh die hard...but the Holy Spirit is a mighty sword within the heart of those born of God... I conclude the reason the saint "cannot sin" is because the conviction pressed upon his heart by the Holy Spirit is too great to allow him to remain in that sin ....

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Gods solution to our sin is nothing short of amazing...man could not defeat sin...but instead of condemning man...He came down and condemned that thing which had defeated us...that sin in our flesh ...the comforter has come!

What love ...!
 
first in rank, influence, honor; chief

Whoever has been born of God does not sin,
for His seed remains in him;
and he cannot sin,
because he has been born of God
1 John 3:9



hamartia: A Sin Definition: prop: missing the mark; hence: (a) guilt, sin, (b) a fault, failure (in an ethical sense), sinful deed.
hamartía ("sin, forfeiture because missing the mark") is the brand of sin that emphasizes its self-originated (self-empowered) nature – i.e. it is not originated or empowered by God (i.e. not of faith, His inworked persuasion).



hamartanó: I Sin Definition: originally: I miss the mark, hence (a) I make a mistake, (b) I sin, commit a sin (against God); sometimes the idea of sinning against a fellow-creature is present.
hamartánō (from A "not" and méros, "a part, share") – properly, having no share in; to sin, which always brings forfeiture – i.e. eternal loss due to missing God's mark.
hamartánō is regularly used in ancient times of an archer missing the target (Homer, Aesch., etc). Every decision (action) done apart from faith (pístis) is sin


4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1John 3:4-10




This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1John 1:5-10
 
It's funny how people pick certain verses out of a passage.

1Jn 3:3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
we should practice righteousness.

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
we should quit sinning.

1Jn 3:5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
we should practice righteousness.

1Jn 3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
the one who keeps practicing sin is of the devil.

1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
If we don't practice righteousness or love our brothers we aren't of God.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;

This passage is comparing practicing sin with practicing righteousness.

(KJV)
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

In old medeival english, the "eth" suffix is an infintum. You can't "sinneth" one time. But you can "sin" one time.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Again we the "eth" suffix here. committeth = committing, sinneth = sinning, in proper English grammar this is saying multiple commit, and multiple sin.
 
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This is just my take on this:

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
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My inner man or spirit is created recreated in the image of Jesus when I am born again, this is the restoration of what was lost in the garden (Gen 1:26-27)
While partaking of this new life my soul needs to be renewed according to the Word of God (as revealed by the Spirit of God) and my body follows my thoughts. One is a finished work, the second a work in progress, the third simply contigent on the application of the second.
The new man, or my spirit, is the dwelling place of God's Holy Spirit in me (1Cor 3:16). the mind of man or hsi soul (emotions, intellect, violition) is to be renewed according to this very Spirit (Life Force) of Heaven (Holy Spirit) as He reveals truth to us:

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Anywhere the new man walks in this truth and life of heaven, he is renewed in his mind (he thinks like God's Word and not the natural man), and his walk is sinless. Anywhere he does not he walks in the darkness of the old man, and is subject to the wiles of his sinful flesh which will never please God.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
<dir></dir>1Cor 2 :15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
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Good teaching Here ! But He gives us a New spirit !100% brand new ! our old Spirit is of course the old man , our NEW Spirit is of course the New Man !
God wanted a Family ! Made like our LORD JESUS 1 Which we are after we have Been Reborn !
God bless everyone of You who LOVE our LORD and The Truth !

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Col_3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

We put OFF the Old Man , He dead nailed to HIS cross .Gone Forever more !

The new man is made in Jesus christ Image !He lives to please GOd , just as Our LORD Jesus does !
All our good thoughts come from within ! From the mind of our New Man ! He LOVES our LORD Jesus ! He hates sin ! He has No desire for sex or money or anything of this World ! He has the same mind as our LORD JESUS !

The flesh mind must be trained filled with GOD Truth !

We can appear very carnal at salvation ! Because we still have the same old mind before salvation in our flesh ! It takes time and effort to fill it with truth and we need to learn from the Holy Ghost , the same teachrer our LORD had to teach HIM ! He came as a baby to be the perfect example for All of God children ! We truly are the Sons of God after Salvation !


God really Started a New race of beings ! He wanted a Family made like our Lord Jesus to share His vast Kingdom with ! He given each of us a Part of His very being to dwell in our new being forever more ! And if we want More of His Spirit dwelling in Our spirit ? We Just ask our father God in faith !

Luk_11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

We already have enough power to LOTS !
Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

We Have the first fruits of GOD Holy Spirit within our Spirit !
Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

2Pe_1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


It our New man our New spirit that is the Son of God !
It does not appear yet, how we going too look ! Because nothing on earth is How we will look !
But we know we will look like HIM ! and we see in daniel and revelations . How He LOOKS ! He appears as He did before He created this planet ! Nothing like He looked when He walked in flesh !

We Have Awsomes bodies awaiting us at Home ! {New jerusalem } This is not our Home forever ! We are just passing thur !

Rom_8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
 
Barney said.
This verse in 1John refers to non-believers. Note the context of 1J1 John 1 m it's beginning. It "bears witness", "declares", "eternal life", so that others "may have fellowship....with the Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ".
I would agree that 1 John does seem written to a broad spectrum audience and it seems to me to address the need for a savior more than trying to explain a doctrine of the nature of sin.
It is widely held that it was written between 90-100 AD and by that time many diverse doctrines had crept in.
Some of these new ideas held that the sacrifice of Jesus was not sufficient and on the other end of the spectrum
there were ideas that Jesus was not needed at all.


I think verse 9 bears out that verse 8 was referring to the need for a savior to unbelievers and those following error.
1 John 1:9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

Ok,so we confess and we are forgiven,well if I believe I am forgiven I am not going to keep confessing the sins that are now forgiven/forgotten.Not only that but I have to believe and act like I believe that he has cleansed me from all wickedness.
Therefore any wicked thought that comes my way is not MY thought,it is wickedness trying to reclaim it's domain.
If I fall for the half sinner/half saint scenario I allow wickedness half of my kingdom and he will eventually want half of what I have left,then half of that.So it is no longer I that wants to sin but sin itself wanting to use me to manifest it's works.

It seems to me that chapter 2 verse 12 is when he actually begins to write to believers,starting with "little ones",
then "fathers" then "young men".These appear to be three levels of believers.
 
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It seems to me that chapter 2 verse 12 is when he actually begins to write to believers,starting with "little ones",
then "fathers" then "young men".These appear to be three levels of believers.

Exactly!

Zombies - The dead flesh, a video game for real life.

Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
We need to be putting the body to death, but it doesn't happen immediately.

1 Pet 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
We can go back and conform to our old way if we choose to.

Matt 26:41 "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
How can we be tempted if the flesh is dead?

Gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If you do any of these things, your flesh is still alive.

1 Cor 9:27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
We should practice discipline, it isn't already perfect.

1 Tim 4:7 But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;

Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Why would we need discipline if we are already perfect?

Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
In fact if we don't have discipline, we aren't his sons.

Heb 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
After (not before) we are trained by discipline, we can yield righteous fruit.

Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
The continual renewing is what transforms us, this is an on-going process.

Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Without testing and endurance, we can not become perfect.

Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.
Some of us stumble sometimes.

1 Pet 5:10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
After suffering and testing, Christ himself will perfect us at some point.

Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Paul did not consider himself as already being perfect.

Luke 9:23 And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Why does Jesus say to do this "daily" instead of just once if our flesh is already dead?

1 Cor 15:31 I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Paul said he died "daily".
 
I would agree that 1 John does seem written to a broad spectrum audience and it seems to me to address the need for a savior more than trying to explain a doctrine of the nature of sin.

If we can't sin, why do we need a savior? A savior from what?

Ok,so we confess and we are forgiven,well if I believe I am forgiven I am not going to keep confessing the sins that are now forgiven/forgotten.Not only that but I have to believe and act like I believe that he has cleansed me from all wickedness.

Jesus probably knows the future, and knows every sin you will ever commit, but I'm guessing you don't. If you have confessed every sin that you ever will commit already, you're a better man than I am.
So maybe he has already forgiven you for the sins you will commit in the future but I have yet to find a scripture that conclusively supports this. But even if this the case.
Why confess our sins?
1. Jesus told us to.
Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:14; "For if you forgive others for their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive your sins.
2. James told us to.
Jas 5:16; Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
3. John told us to.
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we don't acknowledge our sins, we can't ask forgiveness. God may forgive us for our sins, but God isn't the only person we sin against.
We are also told to confess our sins to one another, especially if this is someone who has something against us.
Matt 5:23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Matt 5:24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
He would rather we took care of this first before even talking to God. Maybe Jesus knew you were going to commit that sin before you did it, but your brother didn't.
He needs to forgive you, and if he sins against you, you need to forgive him, but how can you forgive him if you don't know who stole your money or you don't even know someone siphoned gas out of your car.
Also if you don't acknowledge your sin, you can't repent of it. (I can't repent of something I never did, or don't acknowledge that I did, to me that's a lot like lying, but it's lying to yourself)
Also I personally think if we stop and consider everytime we sin there is a cost associated with it (even it's paid in advance) we will stop and think before contributing to the bill again.
Finally, I'm of the opinion that if the Holy Spirit doesn't convict you of your sin, maybe that person doesn't have the Holy Spirit.
 
@Barny, I just want to ask you a question...Please be sincere and be frank with me...... Is the bible ever written to sinners or believers? or should I put it this way... the whole book of the bible is written to the Israel(Both Physical and Spiritual Israel) or to the Pagans that never Know God?
 
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He DID NOT DIE on the CRoss to make our flesh mind or body perfect! He died that we could be made New perfect Spirit beings ! He took that beating so we could be Healed in the flesh ! And also we can be forgiven for any Sins we do in the Flesh ! Because HE does not Want us to even suffer in the flesh any more than we must !

Jas_5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
We see here clearly we can sin and suffer for Sin in the flesh ! But if we sin in our flesh minds or know


Job_5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
Pro_3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Isa_26:16 LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them.
Heb_12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb_12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb_12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

He a good FATHER , He might deal with us Hard ? But He about the eternal more than the Now !
 
@Barny, I just want to ask you a question...Please be sincere and be frank with me...... Is the bible ever written to sinners or believers? or should I put it this way... the whole book of the bible is written to the Israel(Both Physical and Spiritual Israel) or to the Pagans that never Know God?

Hi Greatness4life,

The Bible is written for all mankind, both believers and non-believers.
And when we consider the context of scriptures we can see who that particular scripture addresses.

1John 1:8 is an example of scripture that addresses non-believers.
Whereas 1John 3:9 speaks of the believers.

Both 1John 1:8 and 1John 3:9 cannot both be speaking Christians as they clearly contradict each other.
But when we see the evangelical context from the beginning of 1John 1 we see it "bears witness" of "eternal life" so that others "may have fellowship...with the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ".
And remember the "sin" the world is convicted of is the sin of unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9. This is the sin 1John 1:8 and the following several scriptures refers to.

And when we see 1John 3:9 we see it differs in that it speaks of those born of God, that is believers, 1John 5:1
Believers have His seed (Christ) in them and in abiding in Christ we cannot sin because in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5
 
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Rom_15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
1Co_9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1Co_10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


We can Learn from the entire Bible ! But we are only under the New Testament and Part of the New Covenant !
Which Only begin after He died on the Cross 1 the church begin when the ones He freed from Hell and those 120 in the upper room were Born again !

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


He had to Be raised from the DEAD before anyone could have Salvation 1 everyone Before that ? Died in There sins ! That why He had to go to hell tpo preach His gospel to them , So they could know it and accept it as TRUTH!
1Co_15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.


Listen ? He was born in the old testament Under the laws of MOSES ! when He spoke He spoke of mush of the old covenant , also much of the coming covenant ! Of course the disciples Did not underestand Until He Gave them the HOLY GHOST !

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

He came UPON people !But could not dwell in any !Because no one was without sin !Now we are in Our Spirit Once Born -again !
 
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