Do You Teach Jesus Changed the Law of Moses?

[B-A-C]

I believe there were 613 laws. Do you agree?

I believe there were 613 scriptures. I believe many of them are duplicates.

I think "traditions of men" is in there somewhere. Do you see it?

No I don't, I see Exod 20:13 here.

It's not an issue of trying when one becomes baptized into the Body of Christ, it's a matter of fulfilling the Law as Christ did (from God's perspective, that is).

Can you show me one single verse that says believing in Jesus is the same as fulfilling the law? Here are two that say we can believe in him and NOT fulfill the law.

Matt 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

John 12:47 "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

. In other words, to obey the Law does proved you love God and your neighbor. You'd be surprised as to who "your neighbor" really is.

I'd consider you my neighbor.

 

[clark thompson]

I believe the "oral traditions" you speak of were the Law of Moses. Maybe you are confusing the "traditions of men" which still, I do not think Jesus "did away," but He did not uphold them or teach them to His disciples, nor espouse them to the people at large in His discourses.

It was the Second Person of the Trinity (the Word) who gave those Laws to Moses. Since there was no middle-man (prophet) speaking He would have to say, "but I say unto you" in addressing the people.

One could not show "love and mercy" where the Law was concerned because the Law was of the letter and love and mercy was of the spirit. Men were confined by the lack of the Holy Spirit to observe only the letter of the law. This is what the conflict between Jesus and the religious leaders was all about. Jesus' presentation of the spirit of the intent of the law it contrasted with the religious leaders' who taught the letter of the law. Without the Spirit there is no "spirit" of the law, and the Spirit only overshadowed prophets, priests, and kings, not Pharisees or Sadducees.

What do you think?

What I was reffering to that He did away with is now known as the talmud which is rabbis teaching based off the law God gave to Moses. The talmud is not equal with scripture and Jesus never quotes these traditions or says we have to obey them. In the book of Acts Peter did have a vision where God showed him that nothing was unclean. In Paul's letter he shows we are to serve God not just on the sabbath but always. What do you think

 

[fhnl13f]

These were the laws that the priest of Israel were to judge the people by. If a person had offended you then you took them before the counsel. If a man bore false witness against you in a crime and it was found out, then whatever the judgement would have been must be paid by the accuser. If you accused a man falsely of murder so that it would have cost the man his life then your life would be owed. (eye for eye, tooth for tooth) It was a way of keeping perjury and corruption out of judgments in Israel and to keep the nation clean from sin.

Just like in our day though, scriptures get twisted so that instead of people using this scripture to keep the land from sin, they used it for their own benefit.

 

[Boanerges]

These are just my view.
Jesus fulfilled the Law we could not; this gave us a new and better covenant.
Trying to do all those Laws is simply pulling leaves of a rotten tree- cut down that rot and be a new planting of the Lord.
Be content to walk in the Spirit (in absolute dependence on the Holy Spirit to lead and empower us to do the Father's will) who leads us in all truth, and you will always be pleasing to God.

 

[B-A-C]

These are just my view.
Jesus fulfilled the Law we could not; this gave us a new and better covenant.
Trying to do all those Laws is simply pulling leaves of a rotten tree- cut down that rot and be a new planting of the Lord.
Be content to walk in the Spirit (in absolute dependence on the Holy Spirit to lead and empower us to do the Father's will) who leads us in all truth, and you will always be pleasing to God.

What was most of the law? I think these verses are a good example.

Exod 21:23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
Exod 21:24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Exod 21:25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exod 21:26 "If a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave, and destroys it, he shall let him go free on account of his eye.
Exod 21:27 "And if he knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.
Exod 21:28 "If an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall surely be stoned and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall go unpunished.
Exod 21:29 "If, however, an ox was previously in the habit of goring and its owner has been warned, yet he does not confine it and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death.

Exod 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
Exod 35:3 "You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day."

Lev 1:10 'But if his offering is from the flock, of the sheep or of the goats, for a burnt offering, he shall offer it a male without defect.
Lev 1:11 'He shall slay it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD, and Aaron's sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood around on the altar.
Lev 1:12 'He shall then cut it into its pieces with its head and its suet, and the priest shall arrange them on the wood which is on the fire that is on the altar.
Lev 1:13 'The entrails, however, and the legs he shall wash with water. And the priest shall offer all of it, and offer it up in smoke on the altar; it is a burnt offering, an offering by fire of a soothing aroma to the LORD.
Lev 1:14 'But if his offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, then he shall bring his offering from the turtledoves or from young pigeons.
Lev 1:15 'The priest shall bring it to the altar, and wring off its head and offer it up in smoke on the altar; and its blood is to be drained out on the side of the altar.

It was a bunch of rules about how to behave really, most of it didn't have a lot to do with directly loving you neighbor.
The main exception was Exod 20:1-17 ;. It was mostly about loving God and your neighbor.

The Pharisee used the law as an excuse not to love people. They taught others to do the same.
Mat 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Mat 23:15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Jesus tried to show them it wasn't all about following the rules, it was supposed to just show us how to love our neighbors.
Mark 3:2 They were watching Him to see if He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.

Luke 14:3 And Jesus answered and spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?"
Luke 14:4 But they kept silent. And He took hold of him and healed him, and sent him away.
Luke 14:5 And He said to them, "Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?"
Luke 14:6 And they could make no reply to this.

Mat 12:5 "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
Mat 12:6 "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
Mat 12:7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent. (Prov 21:3; )
Mat 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Mat 12:10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"--so that they might accuse Him.
Mat 12:11 And He said to them, "What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 "How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Mat 12:13 Then He *said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other.
Mat 12:14 But the Pharisees went out and conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

Mat 23:33 "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

Rom 13:9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
(of course we should love God also).

1 Jn 4:20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

So I agree with you, following all of those rules just for the sake of rules, is never what God really wanted.

 

[Boanerges]

Indeed.
Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Thank God my Savior Jesus Christ (my Sabbath Rest Himself) fulfilled the Law and Old Covenant for me!
Also, Jesus was a Jew. He preached to Jews and the lost. The church was born in the Book of Acts, and its doctrine found in the Epistles.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Jesus gave only a few commandments- love, forgive, love. These are all fulfilled effortlessly as one is led of the Spirit of God, which is Love Himself.

 

[B-A-C]

I wonder sometimes if people think the commandments are all there is to it.
How about mowing the grass for an infirmed or elderly neighbor? There is no verse that says :"Thou shalt mow thy neighbors grass".
How about donating food to the local food bank? There is no verse that says we have to do this.
How about contributing money to missionaries? There is no verse that says we have to do this either.
How about changing a flat tire for a stranger on the freeway? I can't find "thou shalt change thy neighbors tire" in the Bible.

Actually in my point of view, there are verses to say to do all of these things. You won't find these exact words anywhere in the Bible, but they are there if you look for them.
It might even be that all these things are fulfilled in one commandment, what do you think?

I'm not trying to be all self righteous or legalistic here. Maybe you don't have elderly neighbors.
Maybe you haven't passed anyone with a flat tire this week. That isn't the point, but maybe we could find some way if we really tried,
to show someone love. Not just your wife, kids, mom, dad, husband or wife. But someone who doesn't expect it from you.