Hi from Efemral

[Efemral]

Hello everyone and thank you for letting me on your forum.

I hope there is someone here who could help me:

I grew up going to Uniting Churches in Australia and had a very strong belief in God and Jesus and Heaven. I was proudly Christian and very happily so.

I've always had a very strong interest in science and a keen urge to understand how everything worked. I saw the universe as a painting on a canvas and God as the artist holding the brush.

But then something I think as very regretful happened to me. I lost my faith. I am now very sad about this because, well for lots of reasons, but the main one is that my mother, who I loved more than anything, died 18 months ago due to cancer and I can no longer take comfort in the thought of her being in heaven, or that I might see her again one day. I wish I could believe that. But I can't.

And so, here is the reason I Googled "Talk to a Christian" and joined your forum. I have to be completely honest with whoever reads this and say I don't hold much hope of ever regaining my faith. But I feel I must at least try. I was not sure if anyone would mind me posting my conundrum or not.

If you happen to have a spare moment please know that any and all comments to me will be utterly appreciated. (Especially if you happen to be a scientifically minded person like me )

Thanks for reading.
-Efem.

 

[Efemral]

Hello again,

I've been reading through some more of the posts and the information contained in this forum. Lots of material to get through.

To save people from any unnecessary typing I will read what's available in those threads and the references mentioned - and then if I still need help from you kind people I will return to this thread.

Thanks,
-Efem.

 

[amadeus2]

Welcome to the forum, friend! May God bless you in the time spent here!

 

[Efemral]

Welcome to the forum, friend! May God bless you in the time spent here!

Thanks Amadeus2

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Hello again,

I've been reading through some more of the posts and the information contained in this forum. Lots of material to get through.

To save people from any unnecessary typing I will read what's available in those threads and the references mentioned - and then if I still need help from you kind people I will return to this thread.

Thanks,
-Efem.

Welcome, Efemral. Two suggestions to check out: a website - Ask Questions about Life and God and a book - "God Forsaken" by Dinesh D'Souza


Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Efemral]

Welcome, Efemral. Two suggestions to check out: a website - Ask Questions about Life and God, and a book - "God Forsaken" by Dinesh D'Souza


Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Thanks, Spirit Led Ed (SLE) - I read the article on the website "Why is DNA important" and the one called "Is there a God?". Much appreciated

-Efem.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Welcome to the forum ....I assure you you are not the first one to ever feel this way But my God has the answers you look for ..sorry about youre mom ..I pray that you can once again find peace and assurance of Heaven and the day youll see her again .this is where youre faith becomes real ..when you are in darkness the light shines the brightest.When you lack faith is when it becomes real as you regain youre focus on the things of God ..May youre time here be frutfull and may Grace be youres at the end of the day..just rember this NOT A SPARROW FALLS THAT GOD DOES NOT SEE IT ....Rev

 

[amadeus2]

Every man has faith. The problem is that so much of is misdirected IMHO. We use what our 5 natural senses are able to perceive to determine what is truth and what is not. Yet... really, do we not presume that our senses do not lie and that our reasoning mind is able to put it altogether logically to come with the truth? Presume? Perhaps a better way to express it is that we "believe" or that we have "faith". Perhaps what we have is "faith" in our 5 senses and the logical ability of our mind. To come to a conclusion that is alway the truth.

Has anyone every changed his mind?

Misdirected faith is to me that which is not directed toward truth, but what is truth really? Ask some people on the street, who have no faith toward God, and then ask also some other who do, to define truth for you. Why is it that you will not receive the same answer from everyone? Do they not all have 5 senses and a logical mind? Certainly many of them do.

So then ask yourself and ask the same question: What is truth?

Is it true that every man has his own truth? Solomon wrote these words...

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes..." Prov 21:2

So much for expecting the absolute truth from men. Every one of us believes that we are right.

The rest of the same verse ...

"...but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

What is in our heart? Is there a difference between the "heart" that the Lord ponders and the mind which draws logical conclusions?

Why did Jeremiah write these words?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

For me they have the answer with which to start our search. It is not in us!

Then recall the words of Jesus who said that he was the Truth:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

Then he promises us power:

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

And he has previously explained what the Holy Ghost will do...

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

The Holy Ghost will provide the answers which we lack. The Holy Ghost will provide the things which are needed which are not in us and cannot be found... when we do not have the Holy Ghost.

But it the Holy Ghost is that which quickens (bring to the Life which Jesus is) the scripture which we consume. [TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD="class: VerseBody"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: VerseHeader"][/TD]
[TD="class: VerseBody"]"Who [God] also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

We need to read or hear scripture regularly so the Holy Ghost (in us) can bring it to Life within us. That is the Word of God then alive in us!

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Efemral]

Welcome to the forum ....I assure you you are not the first one to ever feel this way But my God has the answers you look for ..sorry about youre mom ..I pray that you can once again find peace and assurance of Heaven and the day youll see her again .this is where youre faith becomes real ..when you are in darkness the light shines the brightest.When you lack faith is when it becomes real as you regain youre focus on the things of God ..May youre time here be frutfull and may Grace be youres at the end of the day..just rember this NOT A SPARROW FALLS THAT GOD DOES NOT SEE IT ....Rev

Some lovely thoughts indeed. Thank you

 

[Efemral]

Amadeus2, you obviously have a deep thinking and philosophical mind. I too find the issues around our perceptions of the world around us very interesting. The concept of 'truth' is utterly fascinating isn't it. We each construct our own individual realities using what information our physical senses can provided, just as you say, and Solomon apparently. So truth must be somewhat subjective. And yet we all strive to find a shared 'truth'.

Anyway, thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

Just a side note ....The bible uses Agricultural references the word because it was common thinking For the time He taught with simple truths ..I on e joked with a farmer about the parable of a mustard seeds worth of faith..his response was mustard seed is the hardest thing to grow and it always comes up where you least expect it !! Just like faith it's hardships that grow it and when you need it the most it's comes from left field ....from heaven above ..I know this to be true as I've been there ..

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hello everyone and thank you for letting me on your forum.

I hope there is someone here who could help me:

I grew up going to Uniting Churches in Australia and had a very strong belief in God and Jesus and Heaven. I was proudly Christian and very happily so.

I've always had a very strong interest in science and a keen urge to understand how everything worked. I saw the universe as a painting on a canvas and God as the artist holding the brush.

But then something I think as very regretful happened to me. I lost my faith. I am now very sad about this because, well for lots of reasons, but the main one is that my mother, who I loved more than anything, died 18 months ago due to cancer and I can no longer take comfort in the thought of her being in heaven, or that I might see her again one day. I wish I could believe that. But I can't.

And so, here is the reason I Googled "Talk to a Christian" and joined your forum. I have to be completely honest with whoever reads this and say I don't hold much hope of ever regaining my faith. But I feel I must at least try. I was not sure if anyone would mind me posting my conundrum or not.

If you happen to have a spare moment please know that any and all comments to me will be utterly appreciated. (Especially if you happen to be a scientifically minded person like me )

Thanks for reading.
-Efem.

First Welcome aboard Efemral,
I hope and pray that you have found the right place to assist you finding the one you seek :thumbs_up

There is much in what you've written that begs reply to. If I wasn't heading off to work, I'd be spending half a day trying to reply to you.

Once again be welcome!

C4E
John 8:32 [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Amadeus2, you obviously have a deep thinking and philosophical mind. I too find the issues around our perceptions of the world around us very interesting. The concept of 'truth' is utterly fascinating isn't it. We each construct our own individual realities using what information our physical senses can provided, just as you say, and Solomon apparently. So truth must be somewhat subjective. And yet we all strive to find a shared 'truth'.

Anyway, thanks for the very comprehensive reply.

Truth is not subject to change although it's appearence or manifestation is.
That which is true is not nessecarily truth because what is true in time is subject to change.
For instance math is truth because it does not change and is not dependant on temporary things like gravity,time and space.
Science does seek truth but keeps running into layers of realities that are only true because of the temporary nature of the time/space continuum.Physics as described by Newton was true but it turned out to be an outer layer of reality.It answered 99% of our questions
but left a little hole in our understanding that caused us to explore that tiny flaw and find another layer of reality that science called relativity.
Relativity turned out to be 99% true and the examination of the tiny flaw opened up a whole new layer of reality in a quantum realm.
The patterns and behaviours of particles(the paticle zoo) found in the quantum realm sound closer to explaining scripture than the way it has been interpeted for the last 2000 years.

I was agnostic before I became a believer because I felt atheism tequired faith and I had none.
I am convinced that science is coming to find the same patterns and cycles that the writers of scripture
saw through inspired revelation.

The link below is a site that explores these patterns and cycles and if you like science as I do then I know you will enjoy the site.

To Be Is To Do: A Fundamental Principle of the Hebrew Language

 

[amadeus2]

Amadeus2, you obviously have a deep thinking and philosophical mind. I too find the issues around our perceptions of the world around us very interesting. The concept of 'truth' is utterly fascinating isn't it. We each construct our own individual realities using what information our physical senses can provided, just as you say, and Solomon apparently. So truth must be somewhat subjective. And yet we all strive to find a shared 'truth'.

The truth that men describe is subjective, perhaps, but not the Truth which Jesus is. Eventually, if we continue to seek the face of our Lord, we will, you and I and our brothers in Christ, see exactly the same Truth without the question mark of Pontius Pilate:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

 

[Efemral]

First Welcome aboard Efemral,
I hope and pray that you have found the right place to assist you finding the one you seek :thumbs_up
There is much in what you've written that begs reply to. If I wasn't heading off to work, I'd be spending half a day trying to reply to you.
Once again be welcome!
C4E
John 8:32 [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thank you C4E. I hope your work day went well. I am on the other side of the world and so I'll probably be asleep when you read this I'd be glad for any reply, but only if you have time.

Truth is not subject to change although it's appearence or manifestation is. That which is true is not nessecarily truth because what is true in time is subject to change. For instance math is truth because it does not change and is not dependant on temporary things like gravity,time and space. Science does seek truth but keeps running into layers of realities that are only true because of the temporary nature of the time/space continuum.Physics as described by Newton was true but it turned out to be an outer layer of reality.It answered 99% of our questions but left a little hole in our understanding that caused us to explore that tiny flaw and find another layer of reality that science called relativity. Relativity turned out to be 99% true and the examination of the tiny flaw opened up a whole new layer of reality in a quantum realm. The patterns and behaviours of particles(the paticle zoo) found in the quantum realm sound closer to explaining scripture than the way it has been interpeted for the last 2000 years.

I was agnostic before I became a believer because I felt atheism required faith and I had none. I am convinced that science is coming to find the same patterns and cycles that the writers of scripture saw through inspired revelation. The link below is a site that explores these patterns and cycles and if you like science as I do then I know you will enjoy the site.

That sounds amazing, Thiscrosshurts. I'll be checking that link out for sure I've never heard anyone compare physics to scripture before.

The truth that men describe is subjective, perhaps, but not the Truth which Jesus is. Eventually, if we continue to seek the face of our Lord, we will, you and I and our brothers in Christ, see exactly the same Truth without the question mark of Pontius Pilate:
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

The word 'truth' is a tricky one, isn't it? I think there is some contextual meaning I may be missing when you capitalise it. Your quote seems to hint at a future time when a veil is lifted and the secrets existence are revealed to us. I do very much hope that is something that happens.

 

[amadeus2]

Originally Posted by amadeus2: The truth that men describe is subjective, perhaps, but not the Truth which Jesus is. Eventually, if we continue to seek the face of our Lord, we will, you and I and our brothers in Christ, see exactly the same Truth without the question mark of Pontius Pilate:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Efemral: The word 'truth' is a tricky one, isn't it? I think there is some contextual meaning I may be missing when you capitalise it. Your quote seems to hint at a future time when a veil is lifted and the secrets existence are revealed to us. I do very much hope that is something that happens.

I capitalise it to refer specifically to what God considers as Truth, as opposed to what men consider as truth. As to the future time, that is, or can be a controversial thing for some. Jesus saw His Father's face clearly, I believe, before He was crucified. Is it possibly for anyone else to see the face of God clearly before the dirt is thrown on our faces? When I say that it is possible, there will be some who disagree. My response is again the words of Jesus:

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

So then if God is in us and is being allowed to work freely within, what is impossible for us? Can we see God's face clearly? Can we know the difference between God's Truth and man's truth?

 

[Efemral]

So then if God is in us and is being allowed to work freely within, what is impossible for us? Can we see God's face clearly? Can we know the difference between God's Truth and man's truth?

That reminds me of this from "The Spiritual Adventure Pack - # 5" (By Marilyn Adamson of Every Student) : "What about with God? How well can we possibly know God? It entirely depends upon what God chooses to reveal about himself. Doesn't it? And, whether he will let us have a relationship with him. All of this is at his discretion. Here's something quite astounding. God welcomes us to know him. To be fully accepted by God. To begin a relationship with him that lasts eternally."

Sounds pretty nice.

 

[amadeus2]

That reminds me of this from "The Spiritual Adventure Pack - # 5" (By Marilyn Adamson of Every Student) : "What about with God? How well can we possibly know God? It entirely depends upon what God chooses to reveal about himself. Doesn't it? And, whether he will let us have a relationship with him. All of this is at his discretion. Here's something quite astounding. God welcomes us to know him. To be fully accepted by God. To begin a relationship with him that lasts eternally."
Sounds pretty nice.

Does it depend entirely on God, or is it you and I that make the difference, or is it a combination of those two?

If we are able to submit completely to God, will we not then have everything that He has for us? Does not the difficulty lie in our inability to submit completely to Him? Are limiting in any measure God as the natural children of Israel limited God?

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41