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Are all born-again Christians part of God’s elect?

Evangelist-1

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
24
Scripture references are available for all of the points in blue.

- God’s elect are foreknown, predestined, chosen, called
- God’s guardian angels protect God’s elect (at least until they become believers)
- God gives the gift of faith to His elect
- God gives His elect to Jesus
- God creates born-again believers by placing the Holy Spirit in their hearts
- Believers are warned to first count the cost before continuing
- God’s plan has always been to accomplish His goals with the co-operation of man
- Sanctification … “God chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit”
- Major points of sanctification: holiness, perfection, love, forgiveness
- Church members are given a multitude of dire warnings to pursue holiness
- God promises born-again believers that they will be sanctified, IF they really co-operate


IMO, it is very possible for a born-again Christian to NOT co-operate with being sanctified.

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):
(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts
(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification
(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit

IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not be part of the elect who attain salvation.
 
I believe that all people who ask Jesus to be their Lord and Savior and cling to Him daily for the rest of their lives are saved; they are God's anointed by His foreknowledge.

SLE
 
John ch 3

Jesus stated being born again is the requirement to enter heaven

Elect means chosen........God chose to call me, therefore I am chosen or elect.

Sanctification means seperated.......When He saved me the Holy Spirit moved in and sperated me from the world. I am now set apart. I must continue to seperate myself from earthly and fleshly influences.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Acts 3:19.......when converted sins are blotted out....sounds like more than just in the mind to me.

Believeing in the mind does not equal conversion, conversion only comes through believeing in the heart.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:10
 
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I too believe we are ALL chosen.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Now he may have known which of us would accept him and which of us wouldn't, but we made the choice.
Rom 8:29-30

Now just because we are all called, doesn't mean we will all be chosen.
Matt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Also keep in mind the word "elect" doesn't mean 'already accomplished'.
For example, the Presidential elect is just that, an 'elect' until they actually are inaugurated and take office.
In this sense, I believe you are correct, sanctification is an on-going process.

Some believe God's chosen are simply Israel.
Deut 7:6; Deut 14:2; Deut 18:5

Two often quoted verses here are John 6:44 and John 6:65
These can be taken two different ways. Some believe it means God picked them to be a believer, other believe it simply means God gave them an opportunity to be a believer.

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Another often quoted verse is Eph 2:8
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Some take this to mean that you wouldn't have the faith to believe in Jesus unless it was given by God. But that isn't what it says here.
(AMP) For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
(GW) God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God.
(NLT) God saved you by His grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

We see it's the salvation and grace that are the gift of God here, not the faith, it comes from us.
 
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So.... All mankind is chosen but only those who answer the call are the elect. I believe too, that those elected to be the bride are the ones willing to commit their entire lives to HIM. The rest are simply looking for a fire escape, which they get.
 
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

i don't see the problem here. it's Holy spirit who sanctifies. and you can't really resist Holy spirit by accident , it's more like faith in Jesus you need to have as believer.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
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I believe that all people who ask Jesus to be their Lord and Savior and cling to Him daily for the rest of their lives are saved; they are God's anointed by His foreknowledge.
Yes, but what does this have to do with following (being obedient to)
the Holy Spirit's admonishing, correcting, chastising, rebuking, etc.
which IMO is necessary for progressive sanctification?

And, does this have to be done to attain salvation?
 
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What's going on here? ... I'm not trying to post links or images!

Are you having trouble with a post? If you are having an issue, please let us know in the the feedback section under the post titled, "New Design".
 
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Yes, this is in the present tense for today.
And tomorrow it will be in the present tense again.
So, no need to talk about the future tense, is there?

IMO, this glorious opportunity is the result of what Jesus did once for all who take advantage of it.
 
Sanctified. This word is used two different ways in the Bible.
Literally it just means "set apart". But it is also used in the context of "being cleansed".
I personally don't believe our salvation necessarily depends on it, but it is something we SHOULD do as believers.

In the context of Heb 10:10; we are sanctified from the point that if we die tomorrow, we are saved.
The Bible has many verses about a maturing and growing process, and it talks a lot about the things "you used to do". But as a maturing Christian, should not do any longer.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

So the question here is did the sanctification happen instantly, or as a result of a period of time where people no longer did the things they did before.

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
Rom 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

It seems that by doing righteousness, we can become "more sanctified". (More clean, more mature)

1 Cor 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
1 Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1 Thes 4:4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1 Thes 4:7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.

It would seem that doing impure things is the opposite of being sanctified.

2 Thes 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

We are told to pursue sanctification.

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."
2 Tim 2:20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
2 Tim 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

If we cleanse ourselves, obviously this isn't entirely us. The Holy Spirit (whom we must submit to, because we can resist him) does most of this.
(Eph 4:30; Acts 7:51)

1 Thes 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.
1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hmm.. "entirely", is not the same as "partially", does that mean some of us are in a state of partial sanctification?

Heb 13:15 Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
Heb 13:16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

1 Tim 2:15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint

This verse seems to put a condition on sanctification. It even says "IF" they do this....
 
B-A-C,

Thanks for the Bible Study, however I was disappointed that I didn't get served any coffee!

What do you think of 2 Peter 2:18-22?
 

A new spiritual revelation for me ...

... the similarity between Lucifer and some born-again Christians! ... Don't laugh!
(And even Saul and others in the OT.)

Explanation ...
Lucifer was God's anointed arch-angel, His #1 created being in the whole universe!
He was even in a position over Michael and Gabriel.
Did this lofty position hold any guarantees ... that he would stay in God's good graces?
NO ... because obedience is king.

Those who run from being obedient to what they have been given revelation about
... are thrown out ... disqualified.

This is where (and how) free will enters into the picture! WOW!

Election means that God has given the gift of faith necessary to believe the "foolish" gospel.
And the conviction of the Holy Spirit makes it very difficult to refuse to believe this new revelation.


God's Amazing Grace ...
-- granted to the human race in general ... it was given the chance to escape hell.
-- granted to the born-again believer ... he/she is given the chance to co-operate with being sanctified.
 
Scripture references are available for all of the points in blue.

- God’s elect are foreknown, predestined, chosen, called
- God’s guardian angels protect God’s elect (at least until they become believers)
- God gives the gift of faith to His elect
- God gives His elect to Jesus
- God creates born-again believers by placing the Holy Spirit in their hearts
- Believers are warned to first count the cost before continuing
- God’s plan has always been to accomplish His goals with the co-operation of man
- Sanctification … “God chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit”
- Major points of sanctification: holiness, perfection, love, forgiveness
- Church members are given a multitude of dire warnings to pursue holiness
- God promises born-again believers that they will be sanctified, IF they really co-operate


IMO, it is very possible for a born-again Christian to NOT co-operate with being sanctified.

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):
(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts
(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification
(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit

IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not be part of the elect who attain salvation.

Its important to provide actual Scripture to back anything up that anyone claims is in the Bible.
 
Scripture references are available for all of the points in blue.

- God’s elect are foreknown, predestined, chosen, called
- God’s guardian angels protect God’s elect (at least until they become believers)
- God gives the gift of faith to His elect
- God gives His elect to Jesus
- God creates born-again believers by placing the Holy Spirit in their hearts
- Believers are warned to first count the cost before continuing
- God’s plan has always been to accomplish His goals with the co-operation of man
- Sanctification … “God chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit”
- Major points of sanctification: holiness, perfection, love, forgiveness
- Church members are given a multitude of dire warnings to pursue holiness
- God promises born-again believers that they will be sanctified, IF they really co-operate


IMO, it is very possible for a born-again Christian to NOT co-operate with being sanctified.

IMO, there are 3 types of people in the churches (along with the curious and the seekers):
(1) the converted ... believe the gospel in their minds, but not in their hearts
(2) the born-again ... have been given the Holy Spirit in their hearts, but resist full sanctification
(3) the elect ... really willing to pay the price to be sanctified unto holiness by the Holy Spirit

IMO, it is possible to be born-again, but not be part of the elect who attain salvation.

I appreciate the debate here. Not new, but open to new folks at t.j. to participate.....bless us dear folks....and be encouraged also in what others say.

I speak from my experience in life. ( someone said ....1 ounce of experience is worth a ton of theory) This quote is not bible.....But true none-the-less. We are friends on this forum. And I do not desire to offend.

The point I make goes back to my youth.....when I met the Master. I danced with joy.

It is good to debate.....to talk about the Lord.

Lets go on.....Lets go on 'talking about this good old way.......
Lets go on.....Lets go on 'taliking about the Lord'
I feel so much better....talking about this 'good old way'
I feel so much better....taliking about the Lord

The point I make to you is be sure to meet Jesus....Meet the Master. This is absolutely paramount....absolutely vital. To all who would follow Jesus
 
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Sanctified. This word is used two different ways in the Bible.
Literally it just means "set apart". But it is also used in the context of "being cleansed".
I personally don't believe our salvation necessarily depends on it, but it is something we SHOULD do as believers.
Sanctified.
Hi BAC. The way I see it is that Sanctification is indeed a part of the salvation process, but it isn't something we do. Any attempt on our part to change ourselves and make us righteous or holy will end in inevitable failure. We were justified by the blood of Jesus. When we come to God in faith God accepts us as we are, but He will never leave us as we are. God accepts the death of His Son as ours, and He looks upon us as if we had never sinned. We are justified, we no longer are under condemnation, because of the cross. But if you remember the OT sanctuary services, the death of the innocent lamb on the altar took place outside in the courtyard. The blood was then taken into the sanctuary and the Priest ministered there. This took place every day, thus it was an ongoing process. Thus the sacrifice was just the beginning of the process of salvation. Sanctification is impossible without the blood, but is the inevitable result of our faith in the blood, or the cross. As we look daily to the cross of Christ in faith, trusting in the death of Christ as our redeeming sacrifice we enter grace which once declaring us righteous, proceeds to make us righteous.
Romans 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified (past tense, established fact) by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.....
.....9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood (past tense, established fact), we shall be (future tense and promise) saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son (past tense), much more, being reconciled, we shall be (future tense and promise) saved by his life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin (past) , live (present and furue) any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (past)
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (future).

Notice the repetitions and parallels. Having been...shall be. Because of the death of Jesus, such and such will happen. That such and such is a life lived in victory over sin. It is a sanctified life made confom

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


In the context of Heb 10:10; we are sanctified from the point that if we die tomorrow, we are saved.
The Bible has many verses about a maturing and growing process, and it talks a lot about the things "you used to do". But as a maturing Christian, should not do any longer.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

So the question here is did the sanctification happen instantly, or as a result of a period of time where people no longer did the things they did before.
The timing of the shedding of various habits and sins which afflicted us before we came to Christ, differs I believe from one indivdual to another. For some, cursing disappears almost overnight. For me, cursing was a major problem and complete deliverance from that habti took a long time. But it finally came down to faith. I used to depend on my own strngth to stop cursing...and failed miserably. It wasn't until I gave up trying to do it myself and surrendered the whole process to God, trusating in His grace and power based on what Jesus accomplished at Calvary, that His resurrection life freed me from that sin. Again, others may have ongoing problems with any number or variety of sin; be it gambling, cursing, fornication, drugs, theft, whatever, while with others these things vanish it seems overnight. Those Corinthians didn't all shed sin immediately, the process will continue for all of us until we die. I do not believe there will ever be a point when anyone could say, I am now living the perfect sinless life. However, I do believe it is possible, because with God all things are possible.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
Rom 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

It seems that by doing righteousness, we can become "more sanctified". (More clean, more mature)
I think you are in danger here of depending on your own works to become 'more sanctified'. I really do prefer the KJV of your quote above:

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Notice again how the fruit of righteousness and holiness is dependant utterly on something already accomplished in the past, that is Christ's cross, which made us free from sin. It is as we look daily upon the cross and trusting in Christ to graciously grant us the benefits thereof, we are then sanctified. This is what Romans 5:17 (and others) refers to as righteousness by faith.
A life lived in righteousness is a fruit, a result of yielding to God, and trusting and believing in Christ. Not a result from doing righteousness.
1 Cor 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
1 Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1 Thes 4:4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
1 Thes 4:7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.

It would seem that doing impure things is the opposite of being sanctified.

2 Thes 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

We are told to pursue sanctification.
Here BAC you see the absolute neccessity of sanctification for salvation. "...without which no-one will see the Lord".

2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."
2 Tim 2:20 Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
2 Tim 2:21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

If we cleanse ourselves, obviously this isn't entirely us. The Holy Spirit (whom we must submit to, because we can resist him) does most of this.
(Eph 4:30; Acts 7:51)
The above quote from 2Tim 2:21 ...cleanses himself...appears to contradict what I have said previously, that it is solely the work of the Holy Spirit to sanctify us. I think though that what Paul is saying here is that it is us who must make the initial decision to turn away from sin. The Holy Spirit convicts us of the sin, but it is we ouselves who make the decision whether we shed or retain it. If we choose to shed it, then the only way to do so is by faith in Christ,through yielding to Him, again based on what He has already accomplished, and on what He is now accomplishing through His heavenly ministry as Mediator.
1 Thes 5:22 abstain from every form of evil.
1 Thes 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hmm.. "entirely", is not the same as "partially", does that mean some of us are in a state of partial sanctification?
To be declared righteous, is justification, to be made righteous, is sanctification. We were declared righteous the moment Jesus died. Being made righteous is ongoing. But you know what? God doesn't see a partially sanctified life. He doesn't see you and I when appraising us...He sees His Son's life. "By the obedience of One many were made righteous" It is the righteousness and obedience of Christ that God accepts as our own. It is never ours, it is Christ's. He owns it, not us. The truth is that Christ's death, and obedient life, have been accepted by the Father as the basis for my being declared righteous and made righteous. So the life I will live tomorrow, has already been lived in the past!! It isn't my life that I will live tomorrow, for I am dead...it is Christ who lives in me!!!! It is His life of perfect obedience that I, by faith, will wear not just tomorrow, but throughout my life so long as I am trusting in His grace and not in my own works, and it is that righteousness of Christ's that I will wear as a wedding garment at the great supper of the Lamb in heaven.
Heb 13:15 Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
Heb 13:16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

1 Tim 2:15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint

This verse seems to put a condition on sanctification. It even says "IF" they do this....
Faith in what? The already established fact of our justifcation through the cross of Christ
 
Very interesting topic, isn't it? ... What do you think about these verses? ...

• “… God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit
and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel …” (2 Thess 2:13-14)


• “For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one …” (Heb 2:11)


• “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” (Heb 10:14)

And please don't forget the important question posed in post #14.
 
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Romans 5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified (past tense, established fact) by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.....
.....9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood (past tense, established fact), we shall be (future tense and promise) saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son (past tense), much more, being reconciled, we shall be (future tense and promise) saved by his life.

Hello my jewish friend, brakelite.

Just how do you support your idea that "justified"
is past tense and an established fact. Here is what
you wrote,

Romans 5
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood (past tense, established fact), we
shall be (future tense and promise) saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son
(past tense), much more, being reconciled, we shall be (future tense and promise) saved
by his life.


All Paul is stating is the Gospel in Romans 5:9-11, we are
reconciled through the blood of the covenant. No past,
no present, only the future eternal life with our Lord Jesus Christ.
Forget what is behind and move into the eternal life.
Consider yourself dead to sin and live the real life,
full of the Holy Spirit. Justified and sanctified by the
incredible blood of the lamb.


Romans 5
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.


(This is the completed act, accomplished at Calvary.)

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God
through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.


( The New Covenant, signed, sealed and delivered.)

11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our
Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the
reconciliation.


( Reconciliation means friendship, Christ has removed all
barriers.)
 
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