How do you reconcile Genesis?

[Davy]

It is not without reason that people continue to look for Noah's Ark or the Ark of the Covenant. People want proof. We are not given proof, we are given God's Word and asked to have faith and believe. Heb 11:1

Sadly many people want to reconcile their faith based on so-called evidence that science tells them. The Bible tells us to believe God, regardless of what man says. I prefer to believe God and His word. I wonder what would happen to many Christians if archeologists did indeed find the bones of Jesus?

John 6:47: I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life.

Matthew 6:24: “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and possessions.


We either believe what God's Word says, or we don't. The choice is our's and we will be held liable for it.

Hi again Stan53.

The oxford dictionary defines credulity as having or showing too great a readiness to believe something. You seam to be putting a lot of stock in your belief that the days mentioned in the creation account are literal 24 hour days, which not all bible scholars agree with. Just because you believe that, does not necessarily mean it is true! Believing in God's word is important and so is having the correct understanding of what the bible says.

Remember even the bible itself uses the word day to define different spans of time. In Ezekiel 4:6, a day is at times used to stand for one year. Many prophesies use a day for a year formula, Revelation 11:9; 11:3; 12:6; Daniel 12:11, 12, etc.

The term days is also used with reference to a time period contemporaneous with a particular person, as for example, the days of Noah and the days of Lot, which represented their entire considerable life span. (Luke 17:26-30; Isaiah 1:1)

Finally in its "flexible" use representing the creative days. There is six creative days followed by a seventh day of rest. In the creation account, the first six creative days ends with the statement: "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning" a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth day. (Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23,　31) The seventh day, however, does not have this ending, indicating that this period, during which God has been resting from his creative works toward the earth, continued on. At Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that God's rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began. This makes it evident that each creative day was at least thousands of years in length. As "A Religious Encyclopedia" Volume 1 page 613, edited by P.　Schaff, observes: "The days of creation were creative days, stages in the process, but not days of twenty-four hours each." To add to its flexible meaning, the entire period of the six creative days and the creation of the universe is summed up in one all-embracing "day" at Genesis 2:4: "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."

So as you see Stan53, your belief in each day being 24 hours does not hold much water when it is compared to how the rest of the bible uses the word day!

 

[Stan53]

Hi again Stan53.

The oxford dictionary defines credulity as having or showing too great a readiness to believe something. You seam to be putting a lot of stock in your belief that the days mentioned in the creation account are literal 24 hour days, which not all bible scholars agree with. Just because you believe that, does not necessarily mean it is true! Believing in God's word is important and so is having the correct understanding of what the bible says.

Remember even the bible itself uses the word day to define different spans of time. In Ezekiel 4:6, a day is at times used to stand for one year. Many prophesies use a day for a year formula, Revelation 11:9; 11:3; 12:6; Daniel 12:11, 12, etc.

The term days is also used with reference to a time period contemporaneous with a particular person, as for example, the days of Noah and the days of Lot, which represented their entire considerable life span. (Luke 17:26-30; Isaiah 1:1)

Finally in its "flexible" use representing the creative days. There is six creative days followed by a seventh day of rest. In the creation account, the first six creative days ends with the statement: "And there came to be evening and there came to be morning" a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth day. (Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23,　31) The seventh day, however, does not have this ending, indicating that this period, during which God has been resting from his creative works toward the earth, continued on. At Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that God's rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began. This makes it evident that each creative day was at least thousands of years in length. As "A Religious Encyclopedia" Volume 1 page 613, edited by P.　Schaff, observes: "The days of creation were creative days, stages in the process, but not days of twenty-four hours each." To add to its flexible meaning, the entire period of the six creative days and the creation of the universe is summed up in one all-embracing "day" at Genesis 2:4: "This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."

So as you see Stan53, your belief in each day being 24 hours does not hold much water when it is compared to how the rest of the bible uses the word day!

Hi Davy,

I'm not quite sure where you entered this thread, but you will see it is my OP in the Bible Study section. My observations. Never said it was God's truth. It is what I have learned over 40+ years of being a born again Christian. You are free to disagree but I don't appreciate being called gullible.

I looked at all the verses you provided and they are all days within the same understanding we have today. They may be compared to other time frames such as Ezekiel 4:6 where God uses 40 days as representative of a day for each year. Peter does say a 1000 years is as a day in God's eyes. That is metaphorical in the sense that God is NOT affected by time. Nowhere in the Bible does A day mean anything else unless it says so. Days or in the day is something else entirely and most people will know that. The word used for day in the OT is the same everywhere. Gen 1:5 states; And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. This is just like it is today. Adding descriptive qualifiers does nothing to make your assertions true and is a very bad way of interpreting scripture. Why do you, or Schaff, feel a need to add qualifying wording. God's word doesn't need qualification. Maybe Schaff and yourself, should use a modern English translation that rightly reads; This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
Even in the KJV, those of KJ's time would have understood the vernacular used. What is actually says in the Greek is the important thing, for those who try to misuse the English wording.

 

[childoffaith]

Hi Davy,

I'm not quite sure where you entered this thread, but you will see it is my OP in the Bible Study section. My observations. Never said it was God's truth. It is what I have learned over 40+ years of being a born again Christian. You are free to disagree but I don't appreciate being called gullible.

I looked at all the verses you provided and they are all days within the same understanding we have today. They may be compared to other time frames such as Ezekiel 4:6 where God uses 40 days as representative of a day for each year. Peter does say a 1000 years is as a day in God's eyes. That is metaphorical in the sense that God is NOT affected by time. Nowhere in the Bible does A day mean anything else unless it says so. Days or in the day is something else entirely and most people will know that. The word used for day in the OT is the same everywhere. Gen 1:5 states; And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. This is just like it is today. Adding descriptive qualifiers does nothing to make your assertions true and is a very bad way of interpreting scripture. Why do you, or Schaff, feel a need to add qualifying wording. God's word doesn't need qualification. Maybe Schaff and yourself, should use a modern English translation that rightly reads; This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
Even in the KJV, those of KJ's time would have understood the vernacular used. What is actually says in the Greek is the important thing, for those who try to misuse the English wording.

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
Genesis 2:4 NASB

The Hebrew word translated, "Day", is yom. It's the same word used every time in Genesis 1. We do know that the whole creation did not take one 24 hour day. So "day" there doesn't mean a 24 day. This same thing happens in Genesis 1

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Genesis 1:4-5

The word there "day", is again the same Hebrew word yom. It doesn't there mean 24 hours either, but the roughly 12 hour period of daylight.

Not choosing a position on how long the "days" of Genesis are. But, because they are the same Hebrew word yom, they can mean three things depending on context.

1. Twelve hour daylight period
2. 24 hour day
3. An undetermined, but finite period of time.

So sorry, but saying "it always means 24 hour days, unless it says so", is wrong

 

[dannibear]

Not at all.

However this site is for the purpose of debate and learning, so THIS OP was started for that reason, NOT to convince anyone to live their life differently.

Actually.....

/:* Talk Jesus is Not a Debate Forum *:\
Talk Jesus: Forum Rules

• Treat others with respect when posting
• No profanity
• No links (web addresses of any kind) unless you meet 2 requirements
  - 100 posts minimum in the forums
  - request Chad's permission via private message
• No unbiblical teaching. We preach what the Holy Bible says, nothing else.
  - this site is not for preaching any religion at all. It is solely 100% about the Holy Bible and Jesus.
  - any teaching outside Scripture including fruitless debates will result in account termination
• Do not gossip
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to read more and to familiarize yourself with the rules, please click on this redirect: Talk Jesus | Christian Forums - Forum Rules

 

[Brad Huber]

When you debate using only man's knowledge, you are leaving out the spiritual, when you leave out the spiritual, you have just left out God. In John 6:56-66, Jesus spoke spiritually, but because many people could only think of the physical, the science of the matter, they fell away. We are to live by faith, and seek the spiritual, live the spiritual. If science proves something we know in our faith to be true, did it truly "prove" it. If it does, then our faith was in science, not Christ.

56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?” 61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 

[Stan53]

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
Genesis 2:4 NASB

The Hebrew word translated, "Day", is yom. It's the same word used every time in Genesis 1. We do know that the whole creation did not take one 24 hour day. So "day" there doesn't mean a 24 day. This same thing happens in Genesis 1

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
Genesis 1:4-5

The word there "day", is again the same Hebrew word yom. It doesn't there mean 24 hours either, but the roughly 12 hour period of daylight.

Not choosing a position on how long the "days" of Genesis are. But, because they are the same Hebrew word yom, they can mean three things depending on context.

1. Twelve hour daylight period
2. 24 hour day
3. An undetermined, but finite period of time.

So sorry, but saying "it always means 24 hour days, unless it says so", is wrong

Yes there is day and night, or as Genesis states, six times, "there was evening, and there was morning", a day. I'm not sure why there is a problem with this concept? Today it is 24 hours and we have daylight savings time. You can't have a day without a night. Last time I looked sunrise was the start of the day, and that ended at sunset. Quibbiling about semantics doesn't change the fact that Genesis 1 refers to the same days we have today.
Whether days were measured by finger knuckles in the time of Genesis or by hours as today, a day is a day. It doesn't mean a week, month, year, century or millenia.

 

[Stan53]

Actually.....

/:* Talk Jesus is Not a Debate Forum *:\
Talk Jesus: Forum Rules

• Treat others with respect when posting
• No profanity
• No links (web addresses of any kind) unless you meet 2 requirements
  - 100 posts minimum in the forums
  - request Chad's permission via private message
• No unbiblical teaching. We preach what the Holy Bible says, nothing else.
  - this site is not for preaching any religion at all. It is solely 100% about the Holy Bible and Jesus.
  - any teaching outside Scripture including fruitless debates will result in account termination
• Do not gossip
• Cite author(s) when copying / pasting articles
• Provide Scripture when making a biblical point
• Share Talk Jesus with everyone you love
• Abide by forum posting etiquettes
• No soliciting anywhere on the site.

to read more and to familiarize yourself with the rules, please click on this redirect: Talk Jesus | Christian Forums - Forum Rules

Then maybe you can explain to me what "debate" is based on this site's understanding, because I'm pretty sure most people do that here.
Aside from that I think most are following the rules. If I'm not then please let me know so I can remedy that.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Tell me: Do you believe that Jesus turned water into wine? most would answer yes. Let us for a minute talk hypothetically:

lets say you go get the most intelligent scientist of our day, and you and the scientist travel back into time, to that marriage, right after Jesus turned water into wine. Both of you get a mug of this water that was turned into wine, and you have that scientist run all his tests on that wine to determine how old that wine is. After an hour goes by, the scientist says. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this here wine, is 200 years old, made in Egypt with mica hops, and fermented in a cool dark space. The scientist and those who believe that scientist, DO not believe that the wine is a little over an hour old, the scientist says that is impossible i have the PROOF, and the evidence to prove otherwise.

When God created the Earth in 7 days, if that above mentioned scientist where to go back into time on the eighth day, and run his/her tests. i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that his tests would indicate millions of years old, and he/she would not believe that the earth is less than a week old. God is God, and He can do or create whatever He wants too.

Tell me do you believe Adam was created a man out of the dust as the Bible says He was? Tell me, Immediately AFTER Adam was created, to look upon him, would you see a person who is 1 minute old, or a man that appears to be many years older. Yet he is NOT many years older, only appears to be that way, because God made him at the age where he was at when created. Just as God created the Earth at the age it was created.

satan uses scientist to cause people to lose Faith in the Word of God, not to believe it. Who do you choose to believe? Scientists or God?

^i^

 

[Stan53]

Tell me: Do you believe that Jesus turned water into wine? most would answer yes. Let us for a minute talk hypothetically:

lets say you go get the most intelligent scientist of our day, and you and the scientist travel back into time, to that marriage, right after Jesus turned water into wine. Both of you get a mug of this water that was turned into wine, and you have that scientist run all his tests on that wine to determine how old that wine is. After an hour goes by, the scientist says. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this here wine, is 200 years old, made in Egypt with mica hops, and fermented in a cool dark space. The scientist and those who believe that scientist, DO not believe that the wine is a little over an hour old, the scientist says that is impossible i have the PROOF, and the evidence to prove otherwise.

When God created the Earth in 7 days, if that above mentioned scientist where to go back into time on the eighth day, and run his/her tests. i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that his tests would indicate millions of years old, and he/she would not believe that the earth is less than a week old. God is God, and He can do or create whatever He wants too.

Tell me do you believe Adam was created a man out of the dust as the Bible says He was? Tell me, Immediately AFTER Adam was created, to look upon him, would you see a person who is 1 minute old, or a man that appears to be many years older. Yet he is NOT many years older, only appears to be that way, because God made him at the age where he was at when created. Just as God created the Earth at the age it was created.

satan uses scientist to cause people to lose Faith in the Word of God, not to believe it. Who do you choose to believe? Scientists or God?

^i^

Woot...there it is.

:thumbs_up

 

[David777]

Tell me: Do you believe that Jesus turned water into wine? most would answer yes. Let us for a minute talk hypothetically:

lets say you go get the most intelligent scientist of our day, and you and the scientist travel back into time, to that marriage, right after Jesus turned water into wine. Both of you get a mug of this water that was turned into wine, and you have that scientist run all his tests on that wine to determine how old that wine is. After an hour goes by, the scientist says. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this here wine, is 200 years old, made in Egypt with mica hops, and fermented in a cool dark space. The scientist and those who believe that scientist, DO not believe that the wine is a little over an hour old, the scientist says that is impossible i have the PROOF, and the evidence to prove otherwise.

When God created the Earth in 7 days, if that above mentioned scientist where to go back into time on the eighth day, and run his/her tests. i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that his tests would indicate millions of years old, and he/she would not believe that the earth is less than a week old. God is God, and He can do or create whatever He wants too.

Tell me do you believe Adam was created a man out of the dust as the Bible says He was? Tell me, Immediately AFTER Adam was created, to look upon him, would you see a person who is 1 minute old, or a man that appears to be many years older. Yet he is NOT many years older, only appears to be that way, because God made him at the age where he was at when created. Just as God created the Earth at the age it was created.

satan uses scientist to cause people to lose Faith in the Word of God, not to believe it. Who do you choose to believe? Scientists or God?

^i^

Very simple and to the point DiscipleDave.

The Earth is as old as God created it to be.

 

[dannibear]

Then maybe you can explain to me what "debate" is based on this site's understanding, because I'm pretty sure most people do that here.
Aside from that I think most are following the rules. If I'm not then please let me know so I can remedy that.

The site was created with the intentions of glorifying Jesus Christ, but because people of different branches of Christianity and faiths come here with their own strong opinions on touchy subjects, it is easy for a healthy conversation to become a debate. When a point is reached that people start arguing because they don't pray before they post, they will turn it into a soapbox to declare their own opinions or try to prove themselves right in the end, in some cases, even if they know they are wrong. We close threads that turn into debates and go off topic. I hope you don't think I was saying you were debating, I was not. You stated the site was made for debate, but that is incorrect and was showing you where Chad specifically states this forum is not for debate.

 

[Stan53]

The site was created with the intentions of glorifying Jesus Christ, but because people of different branches of Christianity and faiths come here with their own strong opinions on touchy subjects, it is easy for a healthy conversation to become a debate. When a point is reached that people start arguing because they don't pray before they post, they will turn it into a soapbox to declare their own opinions or try to prove themselves right in the end, in some cases, even if they know they are wrong. We close threads that turn into debates and go off topic. I hope you don't think I was saying you were debating, I was not. You stated the site was made for debate, but that is incorrect and was showing you where Chad specifically states this forum is not for debate.

OK well I'll just opine then and not debate. :shade:

 

[Davy]

Woot...there it is.

:thumbs_up

This comment is not actual proof, it is just your opinion. Although God created Adam a fully formed man, including all the animals, this does not suggest God did the same with the universe or the earth, you are just assuming that. You are still conveniently overlooking what the bible itself has to say about the creative days.

Firstly, the bible speaks of each creative day, lasting as you say, 24 hours, then Genesis 2:4 sums up the entire period of creation, calling it "the DAY that Jehovah God made earth and heaven." The same Hebrew word is used. You can quote misleading explanations that God created the earth old, but that does not fit with how the bible itself uses the creative DAY term.

Secondly, God's own day of rest the seventh day, which God has been resting from his creative works continued on according to the bible. Hebrews 4:1-10 indicates that God's day of rest was still continuing in Paul's generation, thousands of years later. This makes it evident that each creative day was at least thousands of years in length.

I do not understand your thinking, how can you believe what the bible says then over look what it actually specifically says, and choose to believe in what you believe, because you prefer to believe what you want to believe???
:magnify: