The real truth about the Son of God

[John Zain]

Muslims (and others) think Christians are crazy for believing Jesus is God's Son!

They know for sure God did not mate with some female entity to produce any offspring.

Christians know for sure that God did not create any Son of God.
“He was clothed with a robe dripped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.” (Rev. 19:13).
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him …” (John 1:1-3).

Because of their religious teaching, the Jews of the NT believed:
Messiah = Christ = Son of God.
“We have found the Messiah (which is translated the Christ)” (John 1:41).
“Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63).
“Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” (Mark 14:61).
“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16).
Did the Jews actually believe that God somehow created His “equal”, a Son of God?
The answer is “No”, and is explained in (B) below.

First, let’s consider Gabriel
He appeared to Joseph in a dream …
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)
And he was also sent to Mary …
"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son,
and shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest
… that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:31-35).
Please note that Gabriel did NOT say the baby to be born was the Son of God.
The baby was just to be called Jesus, the Son of the Highest, and the Son of God.
Robert is not really (a) Robert … he is a male human being called Robert.
God has given us actual names for the Word (the Logos) so we can relate to
the Second “Person” of the Triune Godhead.

(A) From the Catholic Encyclopedia … “The word ‘son’ was employed among the Semites
to signify not only filiation, but other close connection or intimate relationship ...”.

(B) From the Jewish Encyclopedia … “Yet the term (Son of God) by no means carries the idea
of physical descent from, and essential unity with, God the Father. The Hebrew idiom conveys
nothing further than a simple expression of godlikeness.”

Four usages in the OT for the term “Son of God”, and none of them mean co-equality with God:
(1) -- The angels are the sons of God. The old story in Gen 6:2, says that the sons of God saw
the daughters of men and were fatally attracted to them. Job 1:6, tells of the day when the
sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. It was a regular title for the angels.
(2) -- The nation of Israel is the son of God. God called his son out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1).
In Exodus 4:22, God says of the nation, "Israel is my first-born son".
(3) -- The king of the nation is the son of God. In 2 Sam 7:14, God’s promise to the king is,
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son."
(4) -- In the later books, which were written between the Testaments, the good man is the son of God.
In Sirach 4:10, the promise to the man who is kind to the fatherless is:
"So shalt thou be a son of the Most High, and he shall love thee more than thy mother doth.”
In all these cases above the term "son" describes someone who is specially near and close to God.

Daily Study Bible (Mark 3:7-12)
“When we meet this title in the simplicity of the gospel story we are not to think in terms of
philosophy or theology or of the doctrine of the Trinity; we are to think of it as expressing
the fact that Jesus' relationship to God was so close that no other word could describe it ...”

“Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased” (Mark 1:11).
This is an expression of exceptional love and immense compassion enjoyed by the most holy ones of God alone.
Since Jesus was "fully man", could Father God regard this "Son" as being an equal member of the Trinity?

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14).
.

 

[David777]

Hello John.

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)

6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[John Zain]

Isaiah 9:6 (NKJV)
6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)

"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son,
and shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest
… that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:31-35).

YUP ... everybody's supposed to call Mary's Baby ... the Son of God.
He is to be called that by everyone, including you and I.
And we do call Him the Son of God, right?

So, what's your problem?

P.S. I just had another clarification:
Mary had "a son" ... but not a son who was the Son of God.
Mary was NOT told that he was the Son of God.
Mary WAS told that he would be called "the Son of God".

 

[David777]

Hello John.

No problem really.

Just thought those verses seemed to fit there.

I love the messianic prophecies, sorry for interrupting
your thread John.

 

[John Zain]

No problem really.
Just thought those verses seemed to fit there.
I love the messianic prophecies, sorry for interrupting your thread John

No problem ... and kudos to you for actually understanding what I'm sayin'.
It's quite rare these days.

 

[Brother Mike]

Most Christians believe.......

Most Christians do not really believe God had an actual son, but that Jesus is actually God himself. Removing any son God may have had. I think I was told to think of a Egg with Shell, white and yoke, but still an egg.

Christians also believe that God really gave everything back to himself because he did such a good job, though the bible clearly states God gave everything to His own son to rule.

In Hebrews 1:8 God Calls his son God, which is a class, but many believe it should have said God was just talking to himself that day and was sort of confused at the moment. and not speaking to his actual son.

The concept of 3-1 removes man from the equation, though Jesus said we are one in him, Was never understood by the NT writers, and came right out of the Roman Catholic Church, where we Get Holy Water to fight vampires with.

I guess I have not seen any Vampires so it must be working and all this 3-1 stuff is true.

Jesus Is Lord.



Jesus Is Lord.

 

[John Zain]

Most Christians do not really believe God had an actual son, but that Jesus is actually God himself.
Removing any son God may have had.
I think I was told to think of a Egg with Shell, white and yoke, but still an egg.
Christians also believe that God really gave everything back to himself because he did such
a good job, though the bible clearly states God gave everything to His own son to rule.
In Hebrews 1:8 God Calls his son God, which is a class ...

My point has been ... why haven't Christians been more concerned about Jesus being called God's "Son"?
This is a ridiculous title for Him (unless one understands the Jewish historical meaning of "son").
I've always thought the Father was claiming the Son was God in Heb.1:8 and 1:10.

Gabriel told Mary that she would have "a son" ... not "a son who is the Son of God".
He just said to call him the Son of God, not that He actually was God's Son.

I realize these 2 threads are way out of the box, but they've been bothering me.

EXTRA:
My wife has just pointed out that Jesus was God's Son re: the Holy Spirit was Jesus' Father.
So, for those of us who regard Jesus as being "fully man" and "fully God",
at least "part" of Jesus was the Son of God ... logically, I mean.

 

[dannibear]

I wanted to comment earlier but wanted to
see how the thread would unfold before asking
my question, in case someone answered it for me.
What your saying is, that Jesus was not God's literal
son but rather God and that we should know the difference?
I am scratching my head in confusion over here. :surrender:

P.S. I think I get where your going with this, I
just need clarification. There is a lot of criss crossing
in my head and now I am in a knot. lol

 

[Brother Mike]

God's son.

My point has been ... why haven't Christians been more concerned about Jesus being called God's "Son"?
This is a ridiculous title for Him (unless one understands the Jewish historical meaning of "son").
I've always thought the Father was claiming the Son was God in Heb.1:8 and 1:10.

Right, God gives everything to his faithful son who did not sin. Calls him God. What God gave to Jesus we are joint heirs with. As for the other, I think David understood more about your angle that I did without it being explained in A B C form for me.

dannibear:

Right!! Most Christians here do not believe God had a Actual son. They Believe that God is actually Jesus. God has 3 parts, and Jesus is the Word part of God. Just like an Egg has a Yoke, white and shell.

So, Jesus is not his own God, or his own person. Jesus is just actually God pretending to have a son, and talking to himself.

Some don't like it that simple, but those that believe in the Trinity doctrine certainly can't explain it well.

God's Name he gave .....'ĕlôhı̂ym

Is a Hebrew Plural, meaning more than one.

Gen 1:26 And God ('ĕlôhı̂ym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The Lord Jesus was with his father from the very start of this, standing right there by his side. No less God, but as his father is, yet not His father the creator. This is why Jesus said: why call me good, there is none good but God. He honored his father, laid down all that was his, and came to earth for us. God sacrificed his son, watched him suffer and be faithful even when the temptations of the flesh came on him.

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Even devils where not confused by who Jesus was. Devils knew he was not God the creator.

Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

This devil wanted to Go to God and complain to God about what his son was about to do. Go figure??

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The scriptures never once tell us to believe Jesus is just really God, we are told to believe Jesus is the Son of God, not God the son.

If a Doctrine get in our thinking that Jesus is really God, that removes the son, it's the spirit of the antichrist that wants this in our thinking.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

We are never told to confess that God is Jesus, we are told to believe God had an actual son, His only Begotten son. God the creator did not come in the flesh, Jesus came in the flesh as the scripture says, His son that God sent.

If God was just really Jesus, none of the New testament writers knew it.


Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

So, Jesus is not his own God, or his own person. Jesus is just actually God pretending to have a son, and talking to himself.

That is profoundly simplistic,I can see what your saying has merit.

 

[David777]

Hello all.

I believe Paul's letter to the Philippians answers this question well.

The Humbled and Exalted Christ

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,

11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit.

The three are one, and the one is three.

 

[Brother Mike]

Right:

Thank you David. There is a problem though.

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

We are equal with God, as that same mind must also be in us.

There is no 3-1 scripture...... We are also one with Him, and we never were excluded so makes that 4-1.

Name of the father, the son, the Holy Spirit. All agree as one and operate together, just need the scripture that says they are all the same person.

Jesus was born of the Word, the Word was made flesh.

We also are the same, born of the Word. Does that make us creator? Not hardly.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we mature, have faith, walk in the power of the Holy Spirit, we are no different than Him.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

that does not make me creator though.........

and the Hundreds of other scriptures we have to Ignore that Jesus is the son of God, and not God is really just Jesus.

I can't ignore all those scriptures with clear conscience. Making a doctrine out of a few which can be very easily explained.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Hello Mike.

You are not the creator (having the mind of Christ).

Are you creative?

Mike you stated the following;

"Name of the father, the son, the Holy Spirit. All agree as one and operate together,
just need the scripture that says they are all the same person."

They are not one person, they are three separate persons of and in the same God.

A good analogy is: water, ice and steam, all three are water but all three are separate and unique.

 

[David777]

Jesus is God.

John 20:28 (NKJV)
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing
of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bond servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those
who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness
of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an
understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him
who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I can't ignore all those scriptures with clear conscience. Making a doctrine out of a few which can be very easily explained.

That is refreshing brother and I have noticed a new simplicity and clarity in your posts lately and you seem to be hitting your mark.
I sense a fresh fire in you,Ive been seeing that in David's posts as well.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Muslims (and others) think Christians are crazy for believing Jesus is God's Son!

They know for sure God did not mate with some female entity to produce any offspring.

Christians know for sure that God did not create any Son of God.
“He was clothed with a robe dripped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.” (Rev. 19:13).
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him …” (John 1:1-3).

Because of their religious teaching, the Jews of the NT believed:
Messiah = Christ = Son of God.
“We have found the Messiah (which is translated the Christ)” (John 1:41).
“Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63).
“Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” (Mark 14:61).
“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16).
Did the Jews actually believe that God somehow created His “equal”, a Son of God?
The answer is “No”, and is explained in (B) below.

First, let’s consider Gabriel
He appeared to Joseph in a dream …
"... you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)
And he was also sent to Mary …
"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a son,
and shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest
… that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:31-35).
Please note that Gabriel did NOT say the baby to be born was the Son of God.
The baby was just to be called Jesus, the Son of the Highest, and the Son of God.
Robert is not really (a) Robert … he is a male human being called Robert.
God has given us actual names for the Word (the Logos) so we can relate to
the Second “Person” of the Triune Godhead.

(A) From the Catholic Encyclopedia … “The word ‘son’ was employed among the Semites
to signify not only filiation, but other close connection or intimate relationship ...”.

(B) From the Jewish Encyclopedia … “Yet the term (Son of God) by no means carries the idea
of physical descent from, and essential unity with, God the Father. The Hebrew idiom conveys
nothing further than a simple expression of godlikeness.”

Four usages in the OT for the term “Son of God”, and none of them mean co-equality with God:
(1) -- The angels are the sons of God. The old story in Gen 6:2, says that the sons of God saw
the daughters of men and were fatally attracted to them. Job 1:6, tells of the day when the
sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. It was a regular title for the angels.
(2) -- The nation of Israel is the son of God. God called his son out of Egypt (Hosea 11:1).
In Exodus 4:22, God says of the nation, "Israel is my first-born son".
(3) -- The king of the nation is the son of God. In 2 Sam 7:14, God’s promise to the king is,
"I will be his father, and he shall be my son."
(4) -- In the later books, which were written between the Testaments, the good man is the son of God.
In Sirach 4:10, the promise to the man who is kind to the fatherless is:
"So shalt thou be a son of the Most High, and he shall love thee more than thy mother doth.”
In all these cases above the term "son" describes someone who is specially near and close to God.

Daily Study Bible (Mark 3:7-12)
“When we meet this title in the simplicity of the gospel story we are not to think in terms of
philosophy or theology or of the doctrine of the Trinity; we are to think of it as expressing
the fact that Jesus' relationship to God was so close that no other word could describe it ...”

“Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased” (Mark 1:11).
This is an expression of exceptional love and immense compassion enjoyed by the most holy ones of God alone.
Since Jesus was "fully man", could Father God regard this "Son" as being an equal member of the Trinity?

“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God” (Romans 8:14).
.

I find it interesting, John, that you would choke on such a thing when even the demons know JESUS as the Son of GOD.
Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The angels know HIM as the son of GOD

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

and the Father says JESUS is HIS son

1. Matthew 3:17
   And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2. Matthew 17:5
   While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
3. Mark 1:11
   And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
4. Mark 9:7
   And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
5. Luke 3:22
   And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
6. Luke 9:35
   And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

If GOD says JESUS is HIS son, who cares what anybody else thinks?


Oh yes!! Let's not forget John 1:1
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[jari]

it says in John 1 pretty clearly that Jesus is God:


Joh 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

and if you read first part of john 1 you'll find that "the Word was God" (John 1:1).

He just took the role of a son, when He came to earth, as human.

 

[jari]

Mat 22:44-45
(44) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
(45) If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

 

[David777]

Hello Jari.

Check this out Jari.

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Check this out Jari.

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

So then....who but a son would call someone his father?