Who causes us to sin? How do we avoid?

[elisha]

What causes us to walk in to sin?
Is it our own fault?
Do we give the due to a so called fallen angel,satan?
Is man his own worst enemy?
When man feels a lust or desire,is it his own fault?
Is man responsible for his own actions or can we say,a devil causes us to feel a certain way?
How do we avoid sin?
Every man has lusts and desires,so how do we avoid those lusts and desires?
The lusts and desires are of this ''world'' am I wrong?
I think you could name it and it would be man invented,or have something to do with the world,is this true?

James 1:14-15:<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30281">14</sup>But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30282">15</sup>Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[gdemoss]

Are you asking these questions because you seek answers or are preparing to teach others the answers you already have?

 

[elisha]

Are you asking these questions because you seek answers or are preparing to teach others the answers you already have?

This is more of an opinion,you share with me,I share with you,we each give our opinions on what causes us to sin etc etc
Hopefully your answers may help me and my answers may help you etc etc

 

[gdemoss]

This is more of an opinion,you share with me,I share with you,we each give our opinions on what causes us to sin etc etc
Hopefully your answers may help me and my answers may help you etc etc

Thank you for the clarity. This is what I have to offer. I work to stay away from personal opinion. I have been working to tune in my ears to that which is being spoken to me from the spiritual realm. I am trying to fine tune that hearing to reject all but the voice of the Holy Spirit.

What causes us to walk in to sin?

Am I to consider 'us' as Christians or man kind or 'other'?

• Christians - All those who believe Jesus is the Son of God whom God has raised from the dead and have repented and turned toward God subsequently receiving the Holy Spirit.
  • Ignorance - lack of knowledge of the person of Christ.
  • Weakness - lack of strength to turn from lust.
  • Rejection - lack of submission to God as Father, disobedience
  • Heresy - believing lies that deceive one into believing they can get away with sinning without penalty.
• Mankind - All of mankind outside of Christians.
  • Ignorance - Lack of a clear knowledge of who God is.
  • Pleasure - Pursuit of all that is pleasurable, succumbing to the draw of it all.
  • Rejection - Outright rejection of the idea of God and being God themselves.
• Other - You name them

Is it our own fault?

Yes, man does not have to give into sin and allow sin to rule over him.

Do we give the due to a so called fallen angel,satan?

Satan is merely the tempter and has not power to force anyone to do anything against their own will.

Is man his own worst enemy?

In what way would one consider this question?

When man feels a lust or desire,is it his own fault?

Sin works to trigger my lustful desires within me and draw me out into a place of submission to it. Temptation is not sin. Conception is the problem which births the sinful act.

Is man responsible for his own actions or can we say,a devil causes us to feel a certain way?

Man is responsible.

How do we avoid sin?

Hiding Gods word in our hearts. Always making sure that we keep proper order. God is God. We are his children who know nothing of ourselves but what he has revealed to us through his word and his spirit.

Every man has lusts and desires,so how do we avoid those lusts and desires?

Prayer for intersession from God our Father. Lead us not into temptation.

The lusts and desires are of this ''world'' am I wrong?

All that is in the world, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. But not solely of this world in terms of temporal visible creation as Satan's lust came from the spiritual realm.

I think you could name it and it would be man invented,or have something to do with the world,is this true?

I don't understand the question.

 

[Davy]

Hi gdemoss:
I found your comment interesting, however, you wrote in reply to the question, (Is it--sin--our own fault?) You replied with the answer: (Yes, man does not have to give into sin and allow sin to rule over him.)

This is not what the bible teaches. Paul wrote in Romans 5:12: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" All humans are born in sin, sin meaning missing the mark of perfect obedience to God, which Adam and Eve transgressed. That is why Christ came to the earth and died to provide the ransom sacrifice to atone for our sins. As Paul refers to in the previous verse 8: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." However, their is a distinction between committing a sin and repenting and being forgiven, as opposed to practicing sin willfully. 1 John 3:4-8, says: "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil." Although John says "No one who abides in him sins," he is actually referring to not practicing sin willfully, not sinning in a general way. How do I know this, common sense, everyone sins everyday, because we inherited it from Adam. But as long as we do not willfully practice sin, then the ransom sacrifice atones for our sins, so we can see or perceive him through the scriptures. Once you believe in God and accept Jesus as your Saviour, you do not stop sinning, that is common sense, but the ransom atones for are sins as long as we do not willfully practice sin. So no man born from Adam can stop sinning, but he can stop practicing willful sin.

 

[gdemoss]

Hi gdemoss:
I found your comment interesting, however, you wrote in reply to the question, (Is it--sin--our own fault?) You replied with the answer: (Yes, man does not have to give into sin and allow sin to rule over him.)

This is not what the bible teaches. Paul wrote in Romans 5:12: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" All humans are born in sin, sin meaning missing the mark of perfect obedience to God, which Adam and Eve transgressed. That is why Christ came to the earth and died to provide the ransom sacrifice to atone for our sins. As Paul refers to in the previous verse 8: "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." However, their is a distinction between committing a sin and repenting and being forgiven, as opposed to practicing sin willfully. 1 John 3:4-8, says: "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil." Although John says "No one who abides in him sins," he is actually referring to not practicing sin willfully, not sinning in a general way. How do I know this, common sense, everyone sins everyday, because we inherited it from Adam. But as long as we do not willfully practice sin, then the ransom sacrifice atones for our sins, so we can see or perceive him through the scriptures. Once you believe in God and accept Jesus as your Saviour, you do not stop sinning, that is common sense, but the ransom atones for are sins as long as we do not willfully practice sin. So no man born from Adam can stop sinning, but he can stop practicing willful sin.

Davy, I appreciate the heart that you came to me with in trying to turn me away from what you perceive as error. That is what Christians are supposed to do. You came to me honestly hoping to offer me good food. Thank you. Unfortunately, the food that you are offering is not good to consume.

Your error comes from the words 'common sense'. These two words represent the product of years and years of intellectual understanding gone wrong since it began in Eden. Before partaking of the fruit there was no possibility of common sense as Adam and Eve didn't have the ability to reason of good and evil outside of God. But afterword they could each have their own opinion. Through out the years as the populace has grown, common sense was born. There were things that just seemed to be accepted as right in the eyes of most people. Unfortunately common sense is sense independent of God and therefore not subject to his standard of right and wrong.

We have the bible as our guide but it only works as well as we are willing to bow down before God and admit that we can't even understand it without his revealing its meant to us. Just as Peter couldn't know that Jesus was Christ without the Father revealing it, neither can we have any real understanding apart from him.

I say all of this hoping to benefit you. I once believed exactly as you do but God loved me enough to bring me to my knees for understanding.

I pray that God will help you understand how to become blind when reading the bible.

Gary

 

[Follow The Lion]

-- What causes us to walk in to sin?

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

-- Is it our own fault?

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

-- Do we give the due to a so called fallen angel,satan?

Ephesians 4:27
And give no opportunity to the devil.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

-- Is man his own worst enemy?

Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

-- When man feels a lust or desire,is it his own fault?

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

-- Is man responsible for his own actions or can we say,a devil causes us to feel a certain way?

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

-- How do we avoid sin?

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

-- Every man has lusts and desires,so how do we avoid those lusts and desires?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

-- The lusts and desires are of this ''world'' am I wrong?

No

-- I think you could name it and it would be man invented,or have something to do with the world,is this true?

All things from this world are of this world, we have limited perception of that outside of it. Have faith.

 

[Kit Carson]

What causes us to walk in to sin?
Is it our own fault?
Do we give the due to a so called fallen angel,satan?
Is man his own worst enemy?
When man feels a lust or desire,is it his own fault?
Is man responsible for his own actions or can we say,a devil causes us to feel a certain way?
How do we avoid sin?
Every man has lusts and desires,so how do we avoid those lusts and desires?
The lusts and desires are of this ''world'' am I wrong?
I think you could name it and it would be man invented,or have something to do with the world,is this true?

James 1:14-15:<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30281">14</sup>But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30282">15</sup>Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

We sin sometimes because we are man. Not related to the curse on creation but because we are man and our very thoughts are evil as God tells us, we sin sometimes. Can Satan tempt and cause sin, yes, do we have to yield to it? No, look at the story of Job. He hung in there in spite of all things.

Are we our own worst enemy, yes!! Because we let our own nature rebel and do not bow our heads to God. We want to do it our way.

Lust and desire, well do not live in fear over natural created desires. To control them is the goal. To not let them cause you to sin. Do they exist other than on earth, could be , remember the angels lusted after the earth women and was one of the reasons God destroyed the earth with the flood. But that is an assumption as I think sin will be defeated once and for all, in the new heaven and earth.

How do we avoid sin and all these temptations? That one is pretty simple, just say Hi to God every morning. That is all it takes for me. As long as I just say Hi and keep myself close, the rest takes care of itself. You will get to the point you also hate sin. You wish to do good and avoid these things. You see the things of the world and you just look a the ground and shake your head. I turn the T.V. on and wonder if people really are entertained by this nonsense. Much of it offends my sense of right and wrong. You develop this by just saying Hi..............the teacher will teach.

As for us, I, we, man inventing things and doing it our way, we are good at that one. So just about anything bad is a result of us allowing our own will to do our will, but like I said, just say Hi to God every morning and it is not a concern.

Kit

 

[Donnie]

Sin works to trigger my lustful desires within me and draw me out into a place of submission to it. Temptation is not sin. Conception is the problem which births the sinful act.

It seems that Gdemoss is somewhat confused about some elementary biological imperatives.
One would like to assume that anyone who was even a little alert during school hours would know a thing or two about the production of hormones and the behavior they drive in not only human beings, but in everything else that slithers hops and runs across this pretty blue planet of ours.

Since I am a male I shan't speak for the gentler half of our species, but I will accuse all men over the age of 14 of taking liberties with the 9th commandment if they claim to possess the ability to turn off their sex drive at will.

To get back to the OP; if you consider the sex impulse a problem that need be solved, the only solution I can think of requires a sharp razor, an heroic resolve and at least 12 stitches.

Donnie

 

[gdemoss]

It seems that Gdemoss is somewhat confused about some elementary biological imperatives.
One would like to assume that anyone who was even a little alert during school hours would know a thing or two about the production of hormones and the behavior they drive in not only human beings, but in everything else that slithers hops and runs across this pretty blue planet of ours.

Since I am a male I shan't speak for the gentler half of our species, but I will accuse all men over the age of 14 of taking liberties with the 9th commandment if they claim to possess the ability to turn off their sex drive at will.

To get back to the OP; if you consider the sex impulse a problem that need be solved, the only solution I can think of requires a sharp razor, an heroic resolve and at least 12 stitches.

Donnie

Using your intellect to take stabs at my intelligence level reveals which spirit it is whom speaks through you. It is true, I am of the unlearned and ignorant men and what wisdom that I possessed, which was of this world, I forsook to become a fool for Christ.

I am quite sure that you will have no problem coming up with more witty responses to make me seem foolish unto others, as the spirit who gives them to you to say is a very wise one. I simply ask God to bless you with all spiritual blessings in high places, that he give unto you of the true wisdom which comes from above that is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

May God bless you with his goodness,

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[faithfulservant]

Christians who are born again in Christ sin because they focus on their flesh instead of pursuing, and walking in, the Spirit of God.

Galatians 5:16-18
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[faithfulservant]

-- What causes us to walk in to sin?

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

-- Is it our own fault?

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

-- Do we give the due to a so called fallen angel,satan?

Ephesians 4:27
And give no opportunity to the devil.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

-- Is man his own worst enemy?

Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

-- When man feels a lust or desire,is it his own fault?

Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

-- Is man responsible for his own actions or can we say,a devil causes us to feel a certain way?

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

-- How do we avoid sin?

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

-- Every man has lusts and desires,so how do we avoid those lusts and desires?

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

-- The lusts and desires are of this ''world'' am I wrong?

No

-- I think you could name it and it would be man invented,or have something to do with the world,is this true?

All things from this world are of this world, we have limited perception of that outside of it. Have faith.

Amen and amen

 

[faithfulservant]

It seems that Gdemoss is somewhat confused about some elementary biological imperatives.
One would like to assume that anyone who was even a little alert during school hours would know a thing or two about the production of hormones and the behavior they drive in not only human beings, but in everything else that slithers hops and runs across this pretty blue planet of ours.

Since I am a male I shan't speak for the gentler half of our species, but I will accuse all men over the age of 14 of taking liberties with the 9th commandment if they claim to possess the ability to turn off their sex drive at will.

To get back to the OP; if you consider the sex impulse a problem that need be solved, the only solution I can think of requires a sharp razor, an heroic resolve and at least 12 stitches.

Donnie

If he applies the word "lust" towards how he feels towards his wife, I would say he was wrong. God gave us men a responsive, healthy interest in the female anatomy so husband and wife will be fruitful and multiply. It's when those urges are directed towards women a man isn't married to that it becomes sin.

Perhaps you could clarify, Gary?

 

[RJ]

God says that he is Spirit and we know he has no sin.

Sin is part of the flesh and our physical world. Read Romans 7 and see where St. Paul discusses sin and the struggles between the flesh and the spirit.

You live more according to the flesh and you sin more.
You live more according to the Spirit and you sin less.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Before partaking of the fruit there was no possibility of common sense as Adam and Eve didn't have the ability to reason of good and evil outside of God.

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were born without consciences/the power to choose wrongly? How do you explain Ge 3 where Eve tells the serpent what God has commanded and still chooses to disobey His command?

SLE

 

[gdemoss]

Are you saying that Adam and Eve were born without consciences/the power to choose wrongly? How do you explain Ge 3 where Eve tells the serpent what God has commanded and still chooses to disobey His command?

SLE

Great Question, lets go through it and see if I can explain or if you have found a hole in my belief! Its always fun to test these things for truth when an opposing question comes up. I may learn something knew.

<< Genesis 3 >>
King James Version
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The initial set up question. Didn't God say that you could eat of all of the trees?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Eve's reply is inaccurate as she adds to Gods word with, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. She doesn't understand Gods Word so she is already weakened.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Straight forward claim that God is a liar by opposing what he has said.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So he says God lied because you will become his equal. You can become a God.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,

She saw the truth. The tree was good for food (lust of the flesh), pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes) and desired to make one wise (pride of life) But had missed the lie that preceded it.

she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,

Lust hath conceived and brought forth sin.

and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adams role played out before he was affected by the fruit.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

They were now consciously aware of their nakedness. Which consciousness they were previously oblivious too.

and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

They decided for themselves independently of God that begin naked was wrong even though they were created naked and it was very good in Gods eyes.

What happened? Someone questioned Eve with questions she didn't answer correctly. Then challenged her understanding by accusing God. Gave her information leading her to have false hope of becoming a God when there can be only one God. He used her flesh to tempt her through deceit and she fell. She was deceived. Provoked to believe something that isn't true by an outside source. It is obvious to me that she didn't have the same understanding as Adam did as she was a help meet that implies opposite so she could fulfill all of the needs Adam had for company as it wasn't good for him to be alone.

Alone, Adam and Eve in the Garden were perfect but adding Satan in was like dropping a few drops of poison into a gallon of water, it all was undrinkable.

They had no conscious awareness of good and evil independent of what God would let them know before their 'eyes' were opened and they could then act independently from him as evidenced by there reaction to finding out they were naked. So Eve had been told by Adam that they could not eat of the fruit, was deceived by the serpent, Adam chose to give himself for her. Up to this point they didn't know good from evil except for what God had told them.

It is the same with everyone born into sin. We don't know any better. We end up sinning having been born in sin anyway. We are flesh and live independently from the knowledge of God until God reveals himself to us and shows us our sin. We become broken over our sin and subsequent lack of fellowship with God and repent as we understand that he is perfect and our intellect is flawed. We are born again and led progressively though the sanctification process of the washing of the water by the word. And the whole time Satan is trying to destroy us along the way because he wants us to be his slaves. If accepted, gods grace saves through faith that is also the gift of God and produces within us works that pile up in our favor against the day of judgment of unrighteous men. All though submission unto him and not of ourselves and we have nothing to boast over.

God is amazing and has such an amazing love. I am absolutely convinced that I am nothing without him. One decision made on my own is a decision to act apart from God and choose the path that leads to death. Fortunately God has given me his Word as a guide to get me home safely without having to make decisions on my own. Just be obedient.

Gary

 

[Donnie]

Using your intellect to take stabs at my intelligence level reveals which spirit it is whom speaks through you. It is true, I am of the unlearned and ignorant men and what wisdom that I possessed, which was of this world, I forsook to become a fool for Christ.

I am quite sure that you will have no problem coming up with more witty responses to make me seem foolish unto others, as the spirit who gives them to you to say is a very wise one. I simply ask God to bless you with all spiritual blessings in high places, that he give unto you of the true wisdom which comes from above that is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

May God bless you with his goodness,

In Jesus Name,

Gary

Well, that was all quite interesting, but none of this addresses my point.

Donnie

 

[Donnie]

God gave us men a responsive, healthy interest in the female anatomy so husband and wife will be fruitful and multiply. It's when those urges are directed towards women a man isn't married to that it becomes sin.

Perhaps you could clarify, Gary?

Gary doesn't seem inclined to pursue this line of conversation any further, BGA, so it will be up to you and me to uncover the truth, be it a shiny jewel and a true reward for our earnest seeking, or a pile of steaming offal, hideous and disappointing. But as the Good Book says: The Truth Will Set You Free, so we might as well get down to the business of finding it.

If your theory ( and I use the word 'theory' with quite a bit of poetic license ) is true, then becoming aroused by the sight of your wife's various curves falls within God's acceptable parameters. Yet if you turn a corner and find yourself staring at a scantily dressed Winona Ryder or Jennifer Connelly, and you find something a-stirring in your nether-regions, this becomes a transgression worthy of damnation, if it isn't followed by some serious groveling and apologizing.

And what are we to think of the 13-year-old boy, a virgin who won't be wed for many years? You may recall that at that tender age the slightest gust of wind will set the passions free, so productive the glands are.

And what of the unfortunate smelly and unsightly man, whom no woman wants near her? Must he be solitary and joyless all of his long years?

As I mentioned in my first contribution on this thread, the person who claims to be able to silence their sex impulse via sheer force of will is either a prevaricator or a sighting as rare as Bigfoot.

Your claim isn't unique, BGA, but it seems blindingly obvious that if these are the rules of the game, you and I and everyone else were set up to fail.

Now, that wouldn't be fair, would it?

Donnie

 

[faithfulservant]

Donnie, there certainly is a call to holiness in the scriptures. It's often referred in some translation as "sanctification."

To really understand this walk, we should be aware of the difference between "justification" and "sanctification."

When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and His sacrifice as propitiation for our sins, we are then robed in His righteousness. This robe "justifies" us in the sight of the LORD. Please note references to the word "robe" in the New Testament. This act gives us access to His righteousness, because our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Then, whether we die tomorrow or Jesus returns tomorrow, we are accepted as children, heirs to righteousness. We're saved.

The call to "sanctification" is about spiritual maturity and holiness. Yes, God's steadfast love endures forever. His grace and mercies abound. When a sheep remains immature, but continues to follow Him, they are saved. But, if someone pursues God they will discover this call to holiness.

The modern church has turned away from this because it's not pleasing to a carnal Christian to hear that the LORD has called us to lay down our own lives for the sake of His Kingdom. People don't want to hear that this walk is indeed about being transformed into the likeness of Christ.

Now you talk of this call to holiness as if it were unrighteous, or wrong. As if confessing our sins and crying out to God to change us was unsavory. You have mischaracterized this walk; You have misunderstood God's will for us all. These things are glorifying to God because for one thing they show we're obedient (which is something He puts in the heart of those who want it). For another thing, they show His power to change and transform us from glory to glory.

I pray you consider the importance of being changed and transformed. It is a fundamental aspect of our walk with Jesus. How can we walk with the Lord and not be changed? This change is indeed a holiness that is worked in our hearts and minds.

That being said, Christians need to be careful of the slippery slopes of legalism and pride. This is all His work in us, we have no power over who we are.

 

[Donnie]

Donnie, there certainly is a call to holiness in the scriptures. It's often referred in some translation as "sanctification."

To really understand this walk, we should be aware of the difference between "justification" and "sanctification."

When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and His sacrifice as propitiation for our sins, we are then robed in His righteousness. This robe "justifies" us in the sight of the LORD. Please note references to the word "robe" in the New Testament. This act gives us access to His righteousness, because our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Then, whether we die tomorrow or Jesus returns tomorrow, we are accepted as children, heirs to righteousness. We're saved.

The call to "sanctification" is about spiritual maturity and holiness. Yes, God's steadfast love endures forever. His grace and mercies abound. When a sheep remains immature, but continues to follow Him, they are saved. But, if someone pursues God they will discover this call to holiness.

The modern church has turned away from this because it's not pleasing to a carnal Christian to hear that the LORD has called us to lay down our own lives for the sake of His Kingdom. People don't want to hear that this walk is indeed about being transformed into the likeness of Christ.

Now you talk of this call to holiness as if it were unrighteous, or wrong. As if confessing our sins and crying out to God to change us was unsavory. You have mischaracterized this walk; You have misunderstood God's will for us all. These things are glorifying to God because for one thing they show we're obedient (which is something He puts in the heart of those who want it). For another thing, they show His power to change and transform us from glory to glory.

I pray you consider the importance of being changed and transformed. It is a fundamental aspect of our walk with Jesus. How can we walk with the Lord and not be changed? This change is indeed a holiness that is worked in our hearts and minds.

That being said, Christians need to be careful of the slippery slopes of legalism and pride. This is all His work in us, we have no power over who we are.

You said in # 13 "God gave us men a responsive, healthy interest in the female anatomy so husband and wife will be fruitful and multiply. It's when those urges are directed towards women a man isn't married to that it becomes sin."

I then reply by pointing out that your sex-drive is a well-understood biological phenomenon which can not be removed from one's person and hence punishing people for what they can not help but feel is both preposterous and immoral.

I don't see how your subsequent holding forth on Justification and Sanctification has any bearing on our discussion.

Surely you are not given to changing the subject when the outcome of a discussion may turn out to be uncomfortable?

Donnie